Template:Did you know nominations/Belle White
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Z1720 (talk) 23:33, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
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Belle White, Millie Hudson, West London Penguin Swimming and Water Polo Club
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... that British Olympic bronze medalist Belle White and Olympic diver Millie Hudson, who attempted to swim across the English Channel in 1927, were both members of the Hammersmith Ladies Swimming Club?Source: Olympedia. "Hammersmith Ladies SC", "Belle White", "Millie Hudson".ALT1: ... that British Olympic bronze medalist Belle White and Olympic diver Millie Hudson, who attempted to swim across the Strait of Gibraltar in 1928, were both members of the Hammersmith Ladies Swimming Club?- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Puhi Kai Iti / Cook Landing Site, Template:Did you know nominations/Zebedee Nungak, Template:Did_you_know_nominations/2022_British_barristers'_industrial_action
- Comment: Hammersmith Ladies SC merged with Penguin SC to form Hammersmith Penguin SC, which in turn was renamed West London Penguin Swimming and Water Polo Club. 5x expansion of the swimming club page started on 16 May 2022.
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Puhi Kai Iti / Cook Landing Site, Template:Did you know nominations/Zebedee Nungak, Template:Did_you_know_nominations/2022_British_barristers'_industrial_action
5x expanded by Cielquiparle (talk). One of the articles was created by Lugnuts. Self-nominated at 16:05, 23 May 2022 (UTC).
- All three articles:
| General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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| Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
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| Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation |
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| QPQ: Done. |
Overall: 
Nice work on all three articles. I have credited Lugnuts for his contribution to the Millie Hudson article. All articles are long enough and were created within a week of the nomination. The articles are all sourced and neutral. The hooks are interesting and sourced, and I did not spot any copyright violations - the only things that came up were proper names and common phrases. Three QPQs have been done. Epicgenius (talk) 15:54, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
- @Cielquiparle and Epicgenius: The hook seems to imply that both White and Hudson attempted the Channel/Strait swims, but neither the articles nor their sources say the same? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 11:14, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- Definitely did NOT mean to imply that, description only applies to Hudson. Is it too ambiguous / is there a way to solve this through the power of punctuation and/or minor tweaking? Cielquiparle (talk) 11:18, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- Propose to solve like this:
ALT0a: ... that British Olympic bronze medalist Belle White, as well as Olympic diver Millie Hudson, who attempted to swim across the English Channel in 1927, were members of the Hammersmith Ladies Swimming Club?ALT1a: ... that British Olympic bronze medalist Belle White, as well as Olympic diver Millie Hudson, who attempted to swim across the Strait of Gibraltar in 1928, were members of the Hammersmith Ladies Swimming Club?Cielquiparle (talk) 11:22, 10 June 2022 (UTC)- @Ciequiparle: Not bad, but then I'd recommend separating Hudson from the hook and finding some other interesting thing to say about White – as it stands, this really doesn't say much that's hooky about her. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 11:51, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- Oops, Cielquiparle... theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 11:52, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- OK, I'll work on it. I think I have additional characters available as well since it's a 3-way, but I think it needs to include both White and Hudson somehow (because they each have interesting stories but in completely different ways). I'm happy for this nomination to be punted back to the "PENDING" category for now. Thanks for flagging. Cielquiparle (talk)
- @Cielquiparle and Theleekycauldron: Yeah, only the shortest bolded link out of the three links is counted. We can also go with:
ALT1b: ... that Olympic diver Millie Hudson, who attempted to swim across the Strait of Gibraltar in 1928, and British Olympic bronze medalist Belle White were members of the Hammersmith Ladies Swimming Club?ALT1c: ... that Olympic diver Millie Hudson, who attempted to swim across the Strait of Gibraltar in 1928, was a member of the Hammersmith Ladies Swimming Club along with British Olympic bronze medalist Belle White? Epicgenius (talk) 13:16, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Cielquiparle: You asked me to have a look. I have done some copyediting/tweaking and added a picture. All the hooks read fine to me, it was never my interpretation that they both attempted to swim the channel - and even if that was the misunderstanding then it is quickly corrected by the articles. Any of these hooks would work fine for me and the idea that everyone mentioned in the hook has to be individually hooky is a novel idea (see our award winning hooks with 30 articles mentioned and only one hooky bit). Hopefully you will be allowed to pass to the main page soon. Good luck.Victuallers (talk) 14:50, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Cielquiparle and Theleekycauldron: Yeah, only the shortest bolded link out of the three links is counted. We can also go with:
- OK, I'll work on it. I think I have additional characters available as well since it's a 3-way, but I think it needs to include both White and Hudson somehow (because they each have interesting stories but in completely different ways). I'm happy for this nomination to be punted back to the "PENDING" category for now. Thanks for flagging. Cielquiparle (talk)
- Propose to solve like this:
- Definitely did NOT mean to imply that, description only applies to Hudson. Is it too ambiguous / is there a way to solve this through the power of punctuation and/or minor tweaking? Cielquiparle (talk) 11:18, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Theleekycauldron: I am loving ALT1b and ALT1c. Thank you so much Epicgenius! They are super clever in the way they frontload the action, in addition to avoiding the ambiguity. It was totally worth it to pause and reconsider, and here we have some nicer hooks to choose from. Hopefully you agree? I have struck out the others so it is clear. Cielquiparle (talk) 23:25, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Cielquiparle: Hmm, we're definitely getting somewhere, I'm still not quite on board – yeah, I think Epicgenius did super well with this, but I also think that White sits rather awkwardly in this hook, put in there so that it's a triple and not because they're all super-cohesive. To Victuallers' point, it's not that every article in the link necessarily to have something individually hooky about it; if they don't, the articles should have a common hookiness. That's why every hook in the DYK article hall of fame is a round-tour of several related articles stuffed into one hook about all of them. This hook isn't really about White much at all, other than saying she belongs to a club. Why not consider splitting? Something like:
- ALT2:
... that Olympic diver Millie Hudson attempted to swim across the Strait of Gibraltar and the English channel? - ALT3:
... that Olympic bronze medalist Belle White, who trained at a facility that only allowed in women once a week, later joined the Hammersmith Ladies Swimming Club?
- ALT2:
- I don't know – I feel like it's worth taking the time and space to say something important about both of these fantastic divers. Triple hooks are flashy, of course, but this is one of those times where I think it's okay to try and prioritize saying a bit more. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 23:41, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Theleekycauldron: Funny enough...after sleeping on it, my first thought was that it has to be something more like this – because yes, we do need to do justice to Belle White (who was also a four-time Olympian and the first British diver to win a European championship) – the one thing is though that she medaled four years before the club was founded, but maybe it doesn't matter if it's written like this, also because of the order switch (and now it's also clear that White's claim to fame is in diving – I think I had originally left it out due to repetition and trying to keep it super short):
- ALT1d: ... that Olympic diver Millie Hudson, who attempted to swim across the Strait of Gibraltar in 1928, was a member of the Hammersmith Ladies Swimming Club along with Belle White, the first British diver to win an Olympic medal? Cielquiparle (talk) 06:45, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
- Definitely within character count, I could get behind it – Epicgenius? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 06:49, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
ALT1d looks good to me. Epicgenius (talk) 15:23, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
- Definitely within character count, I could get behind it – Epicgenius? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 06:49, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
- Brilliant and pleased to see you kept to your original intention. This is your work and you should be proud of it and the work it has inspired in others. Victuallers (talk) 17:24, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
- ALT1d: ... that Olympic diver Millie Hudson, who attempted to swim across the Strait of Gibraltar in 1928, was a member of the Hammersmith Ladies Swimming Club along with Belle White, the first British diver to win an Olympic medal? Cielquiparle (talk) 06:45, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
- @Theleekycauldron: Funny enough...after sleeping on it, my first thought was that it has to be something more like this – because yes, we do need to do justice to Belle White (who was also a four-time Olympian and the first British diver to win a European championship) – the one thing is though that she medaled four years before the club was founded, but maybe it doesn't matter if it's written like this, also because of the order switch (and now it's also clear that White's claim to fame is in diving – I think I had originally left it out due to repetition and trying to keep it super short):
- @Cielquiparle: Hmm, we're definitely getting somewhere, I'm still not quite on board – yeah, I think Epicgenius did super well with this, but I also think that White sits rather awkwardly in this hook, put in there so that it's a triple and not because they're all super-cohesive. To Victuallers' point, it's not that every article in the link necessarily to have something individually hooky about it; if they don't, the articles should have a common hookiness. That's why every hook in the DYK article hall of fame is a round-tour of several related articles stuffed into one hook about all of them. This hook isn't really about White much at all, other than saying she belongs to a club. Why not consider splitting? Something like:
- Pinging @DYK admins: – Could you please check that this DYK is now back in the queue as "Approved" or wherever it needs to go, etc.? I received a Bot alert which seems to suggest that this DYK Template is now orphaned. I am very happy with the workshopping and reworking of the hook, etc., so thanks to @Theleekycauldron: for flagging. I would put it back where it needs to go but I don't want to put it in the wrong place? Cielquiparle (talk) 11:02, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
- (Not an admin, but ...) I took care of it. I put it under May 16 since that was the start date of at least one of the articles. MANdARAX XAЯAbИAM 21:37, 13 June 2022 (UTC)