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Template:Did you know nominations/Ari Nagel

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by 97198 (talk) 09:23, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

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Ari Nagel

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Created by Mvqr (talk). Self-nominated at 11:24, 3 July 2022 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough

Policy compliance:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
QPQ: None required.

Overall: This article looks all good (length, sourcing, newness, etc). Earwig seemed to mostly pick up quotes and unavoidable paraphrasing. It did have some tone issues and information that didn't seem quite neutral or encyclopedic. For example, the information about his height, hair and eye color isn't encyclopedic and had to be removed. I went over it and made some copyedits, but now I can't approve it so this needs another pair of eyes. BuySomeApples (talk) 00:22, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

@BuySomeApples: as you've involved yourself in a content dispute on the page, without using a proper edit summary please withdraw from this review. The information on his height and eye colour is noted by multiple sources, I even daresay nearly all sources covering him as it appears relevant to sperm donation. It is as encyclopedic as use in pages on models, such as Alton Mason. Other than that, vague hand waving on neutrality without pointing out specific issues is not helpful.--Mvqr (talk) 10:50, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

@Mvqr: If you read my review you will see that I asked for a second review, since I edited the page to help it meet standards. Ari Nagel is not a model, and afaik page's don't usually include trivia about hair and eye color. Mentioning that the page had minor tone issues isn't handwaving, it's an honest attempt to improve the page which wasn't written in a completely encyclopedic manner. This isn't an insult on your work! You did a great job overall. Also thank you for pointing out the sourcing error on the sentence about him depositing sperm with six different banks, I fixed that by adding the correct source. If you look closer at my edits, you'll also notice that I didn't remove the movies about Nagel, I just added them to the prose and removed the WP:External links. External links should be avoided whenever possible. BuySomeApples (talk) 11:16, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
Seeing that you removed the height and eye colour, despite sourcing, your remaining comment on tone and neutrality without identifying any specific issue is a vague hand wave.--Mvqr (talk) 11:29, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
Hi @Mvqr: not everything that can be sourced should be added to a Wikipedia page. Many many reliable sources will mention a notable person's favorite meal, childhood memory, hair color, eye color, skin tone, weight, etc. If this isn't in some way important, it usually gets left out in the interest of keeping the page encyclopedic. I have tried to adjust as many of my edits as possible to make the page more to your liking. Beyond that, we'll have to leave it to the next reviewer. As it is, I think the nom should be a groundball for approval. BuySomeApples (talk) 11:38, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

General eligibility:

Policy compliance:

Hook eligibility:

  • Cited: Yes
  • Interesting: Yes
  • Other problems: Yes
QPQ: Done.

Overall: I will assume good faith in the review by Apples concerning the copyrighted content and other already ticked reviews. I don't know why NPOV was crossed (I can't read major opinions beyond "prolific"). If Apples is still watching the page, they may want to explain it. Now the actual review, the article has some issues:

  • A source from the questionable WP:NYPOST is included: the first one concerning the following phrase only "Shortly after the story was published, Nagel was contacted by the New York State Department of Health as he was unlicensed to provide tissue banking.[6]"—if true, reliable sources might exist (the phrase "In 2016, the New York Post reported that Nagel had fathered 22 children, nicknaming him the Sperminator.[5]" doesn't apply because another source is reporting how the Post nicknamed him).
  • The phrase "with the recipients paying for his flight fare, and the sperm is provided free of charge as a donation." is sourced to the NYT and SBS but only SBS mentions the fact.
  • Or "However five mothers (of nine children) successfully sued him for child support, and half of his university paycheck is garnished towards these payments" is sourced by Esquire and Haaretz but only Esquire mentions it.
  • Not related to the review, but content related to his physical features might be added to Wikidata instead. (CC) Tbhotch™ 03:35, 24 July 2022 (UTC)
    • @Tbhotch: those issues, and in particular the New York Post citation, were introduced by User:BuySomeApples in this edit. The prior version mentioned the Post via Esquire, but BuySomeApples saw fit to introduce it. BuySomeApples then edit warred their version, with some corrections to citations after being called out Talk:Ari Nagel#BuySomeApples's edits for falsifying information from a citation.--Mvqr (talk) 12:10, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
    • @Tbhotch:, I removed the New York Post and corrected the NYT/SBS citation issue on bullet two. I feel you are mistaken on bullet three as the last paragraph of Haaretz has: "Working as a mathematics professor in The City University of New York, Nagel claims half of his paycheck goes to child support. It seems that despite promises, Nagler has been sued for child support five times." Haaretz is missing the nine children, but corroborates all the other details of half his paycheck and five mothers filing for child support. I disagree on the exclusion of the physical features, but I am not going to fight over it or fiddle with Wikidata, it would add but is not critical.--Mvqr (talk) 12:21, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
    • @Tbhotch and Mvqr: thanks for picking up this review! The reason I added the New York Post is because it seems to be the original source for the claim. Esquire repeating it doesn't make the claim more verifiable since the original source seems to still be the Post, so it's better to properly attribute it imo. Also, @Mvqr: I would appreciate you WP:Assuming good faith for minor citation errors that I had already fixed, especially since I edited the page so that your nomination would have a better chance of acceptance on the second review. BuySomeApples (talk) 20:17, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
  • The New York Post is not used as a source, the NYP is being reported by another source: "In 2016, [...] The New York Post made his story public, dubbing him The Sperminator." In other words, a nickname created by the NYP, as an unreliable WP:PRIMARY source, is being reported by the TARB, a more reliable WP:SECONDARY source. There is no legal reason to use a link to the NYP because this article is not about the NYP and the statement already attributes the NYP: "In 2016, the New York Post reported that Nagel had fathered 22 children, nicknaming him the Sperminator". This is covered by Wikipedia:Deprecated sources. (CC) Tbhotch™ 22:07, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
  • I can't see any other major main page issue, so it's good to go. (CC) Tbhotch™ 22:14, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
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