Template:Did you know nominations/Andrew Báthory

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 19:41, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Andrew Báthory

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Andrew Báthory's head

~~... that the head of Andrew Báthory, Prince of Transylvania, was cut off after he was struck to death with a shepherd's axe?~~

Reviewed: Barbados Railway

Improved to Good Article status by Borsoka (talk). Self-nominated at 06:37, 29 March 2017 (UTC).

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy compliance:

Adequate sourcing:
Neutral: - The lead says "but Székely rioters murdered him" which seems tendentious. Sorry, I do not understand your concern: this is a fact. Borsoka (talk) 17:08, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing: - The sources are Hungarian so I have to assume good faith

Hook eligibility:

Cited: - Offline/paywalled citation accepted in good faith
Interesting: - Having your head cut off by an axe doesn't seem especially remarkable for that period. I'll suggest an ALT.

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Andrew D. (talk) 16:38, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

ALT1 ... that Prince Andrew of Transylvania's severed head (pictured) was sewn back on?

An English-language source for ALT1 is Countess Dracula: The Life and Times of Elisabeth Bathory. The article has a supporting sentence, "A Greek artist painted the head before it was sewed onto the body at Michael's order." My thinking is that the mention of Transylvania and the reassembling of body parts will evoke horror stories. Andrew D. (talk) 16:38, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

@Andrew Davidson:, thank you for your review, comments and suggestions. I think your ALT1 (which is also verified in the article) could be acceptable with a slight modification. My concern is that reliable sources would never refer to him as "Prince Andrew of Transylvania" (because this form would only be used in books published for commercial reasons). Consequently, I propose the following hook: Borsoka (talk) 17:08, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

~~:*ALT2 ... that the severed head of Andrew Báthory, Prince of Transylvania, (pictured) was sewn back on?~~

The trouble with separating the title and the subject is that it dilutes the hook by providing a second blue link for the reader. We could perhaps do it in one link:

ALT2b ... that the severed head of Andrew Báthory, Prince of Transylvania (pictured) was sewn back on?

@Borsoka: Anyway, while we're mulling that over, please note the neutrality issue in the lead too. I'm not happy with this being described as murder when legal status of the killing is not clear. Mind you, this source describes the killing as treachery and says that chief Ordog was killed in turn. Perhaps the article can say more about this interesting detail? Andrew D. (talk) 17:28, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

@Andrew Davidson:, thank you for your comment. ALT2b is OK for me. Sorry, I still do not understand your concern: Ördög deliberately and illegally killed, that is murdered, Andrew Báthory. The above cited source does not seem reliable. For instance, it refers to the Székely Ördög as a Saxon peasant. The reference to treachery would be a POV: the Székelys hated the Báthorys, because Sigismund Báthory (Andrew's cousin) had promised to free them in exchange for their military assistance, but later he changed his mind. Were the Székelys who murdered Andrew traitors or did they take vengeance of a kinsman of a treacherous prince? Borsoka (talk) 17:43, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

The reference to "murder" is a POV too. The main description in the body of the article is fine, "Székely serfs captured him on a mountain ... He was struck to death with a shepherd's axe ...His head was cut off" – this explains what happened physically without any spin. The lead uses different language, talking of "rioters" and "murder", which is not supported by the body. Andrew D. (talk) 18:26, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

Thank you. Now I understand your point. I changed the text. Borsoka (talk) 18:34, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

Ok, I'm content that the points raised have been addressed and so we're good to go with ALT2b. Andrew D. (talk) 18:42, 29 March 2017 (UTC)