Template:Did you know nominations/Althea McNish

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Gatoclass (talk) 09:42, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Althea McNish

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~~... that Althea McNish was a Merikin?~~

ALT1: ~~... that Althea McNish descended from the Merikins?~~

Reviewed: Donnie Darko: The Director's Cut
Comment: Both articles written for the Black Cultural Archives event

Created by Andrew Davidson (talk) and Proscribe (talk). Nominated by Andrew Davidson (talk) at 15:29, 21 February 2016 (UTC).

Em, you two seem to be considerably experienced editors, so you should have known better than to submit something like this. Just look at the horrendous lede... It's just screaming "no way"! Need I elaborate? Kingoflettuce (talk) 06:32, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

I see some copyediting has been going on at this article. Nominators, is this ready for a rereview?—♦♦ AMBER^(ЯʘCK) 07:51, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

Even though there's a lack of response from the nominator, I'm just going to start reviewing this, because this is taking way too long. This is new enough, long enough, well written and within policy. It's well cited and no images to check. Two things: the hook doesn't work out. The article says that Althea was descended from the Merikins. That doesn't make her one herself, therefore I'm striking the hook and introducing a slightly reworded version. There's also some close paraphrasing going on in the Awards section. Please take care of those problems, and please: communicate with us.—♦♦ AMBER^(ЯʘCK) 12:01, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

Suggested April Fools hook:
ALT2: ... that Althea McNish is not American, but she is descended from a Merikin? Gatoclass (talk) 05:07, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

I was like 'how is that an April Fools hook?', But then I read it out loud. It's a good one! I can't approve it yet, though, because of the close paraphrasing issue being unresolved. —♦♦ AMBER^(ЯʘCK) 09:13, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

The variations of the Merikin hook are ok but we should please link to that article too as it could use expansion. Someone has been expanding it recently but it could use more eyes on it to help. I'm not quite seeing the close paraphrase issue as these are just sentence fragments or direct quotes. Please provide some specifics or tag them in the article. I have done some copy-editing to help this along but need more pointers, please. Andrew D. (talk) 13:26, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

I have no problem with Merikin being wikilinked. And to grant your request, I will list the problems with the close paraphrasing here:

Article: "2006: Honorary Doctor of Fine Art, University of Trinidad and Tobago, with an oration by the eminent Trinidadian artist Pat Bishop."
Source: "In November 2006 Althea was made an Honorary Doctor of Fine Art of the University of Trinidad and Tobago, with an oration by the eminent Trinidadian artist Pat Bishop."
Article: "...presented on 8 September as part of the celebration of the 50th Anniversary of Independence of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago..."
Source: "...presented Althea with an award for Achievement in the Arts as part of the celebration of the 50th Anniversary of Independence of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago."

I understand you can't change the name of the awards, but the sentences surrounding the award names are pushing it too. —♦♦ AMBER^(ЯʘCK) 18:46, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the specifics. I have trimmed and amended those entries to avoid close paraphrase. Andrew D. (talk) 20:36, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Andrew Davidson, it's fine by me if you want to link Merikin in the hook, but I think you should realize that if you do that, everybody is going to click the "Merikin" link out of curiosity instead of the link to the nominated article. Gatoclass (talk) 12:33, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

That's fine as I'm not worried about getting a good score and personally think the Merikin topic is more interesting. I started it as a stub when working on McNish and didn't find any good online sources in my first quick look but, now I check again, I find a good comprehensive online source. If I can find time, I'll use this to expand that topic x5 and so maybe we can make this a double DYK, with both article titles in bold. Andrew D. (talk) 13:53, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

@Andrew Davidson: As this nomination is already rather old (and it's getting time for a final word here), I'd say: if you want Merikin to be in there with a bold title, please make sure it is ready to be included in this nomination within 48 hours. If not, I will probably just approve the hook without the bold link for Merikin. Then, you can submit a new nomination specifically for Merikin. —♦♦ AMBER^(ЯʘCK) 15:28, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Let's not forget this hook has been proposed for April Fools Day, which isn't for a couple of weeks yet. So there's plenty of time for Andrew to expand the second article if he wants to do that. Gatoclass (talk) 16:56, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

I have expanded the Merikins article x5 now and, as it seems to qualify for DYK too, I have added it to the ALT2 hook. I'll be doing more work on it tomorrow as there's more to say but it's getting late here now and so to bed. Andrew D. (talk) 22:56, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

Full review needed of the newly included Merikins article and the ALT2 hook for April Fool's Day, plus a final check of Althea McNish. BlueMoonset (talk) 01:55, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

Cited:
Interesting:
Other problems: - I have verified both articles as listed in this table, but cannot verify the hook since I authored it - we just need somebody else to do that now.

QPQ: Done.

Overall: (This table applies to both articles). Gatoclass (talk) 12:01, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the review. I don't think there should be any problem verifying the hook as I made sure it was sourced in the Merikins article too. I'm quite busy today but will do another QPQ tomorrow. More anon. Andrew D. (talk) 14:20, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

I have reviewed the oldest nomination, Gui Minhai as the extra QPQ. Andrew D. (talk) 15:01, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the QPQ, this one just needs the hook reviewed now. Gatoclass (talk) 15:23, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

ALT2 hook fact, that Althea McNish is descended (via her father) from Merikins, is in offline source Kaminga & Walters, used in both articles, and accepted in good faith since I can't access it myself. Rest of the review per Gatoclass. This is ready for April Fool's Day. BlueMoonset (talk) 20:47, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. If you want to see the Kaminga & Walters source, Google Books provides a glimpse. Andrew D. (talk) 21:05, 30 March 2016 (UTC)