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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 00:25, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

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1994 Gambian coup d'état

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5x expanded by Ira.morga3 (talk). Self-nominated at 03:32, 25 October 2018 (UTC).

  • @Ira.morga3: The article was nominated the day 5x expansion happened, so it meets the date criterion. I wasn't able to find any close paraphrasing. This is the nominator's first nomination so a QPQ is not required. Although I suppose both hooks are potentially interesting, I have concerns with both: for the first, I'm not sure if bloodless coups are really unusual as I'm aware it's happened before in other places. The second hook might be too obtuse for people unfamiliar with political science: it would be advisable to add a link to Waves of democracy in the said hook. Otherwise, both are cited inline: ALT0 reference is verified, while I can't access ALT1's source so for now it is accepted AGF. The article is of an appropriate length, but I would suggest that the "The Paradox to the Third Wave of Democratization" section be rewritten in a more neutral tone. As for the "The Paradox to the Third Wave of Democratization" claim itself, I would suggest that some background be written about it (i.e. who formulated that term, and in what context) as the term is discussed rather abruptly. I would also suggest that the "Coup" and "Discontent in the Gambia" sections be switched (i.e. "Discontent in the Gambia" comes before "Coup", to give background). This will be good to go once these issues have been addressed. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:45, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Note: copied from article talk page on 23 December 2018: @Narutolovehinata5: Thank you so much for your feedback! I agree with your observation that the second hook might be a bit too obtuse for the average reader with no political science background. Perhaps instead I could use the hook "... the Coup was met with almost no opposition, both internally and internationally?" instead? I also made a few of the corrections you suggested (except for the Third Wave Democratization section, which I have not yet started to correct but I plan to). Ira.morga3 (talk) 06:23, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Have the issues been fixed Ira.morga3? VincentLUFan (talk) (Kenton!) 07:59, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
  • A series of edits were made to the article by the nominator in early December. Narutolovehinata5, did these address any of the issues you raised? Where does the nomination stand now? Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 13:54, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
I was aware of that, I was just waiting for the nominator to make a response here (which so far they have been unable to do). Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:23, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
*@Narutolovehinata5: @BlueMoonset:Sorry for the delay in response, I have been home for the holidays and haven't checked my emails/notifications too often. And while I edited this page as a requirement for my course, I found myself loving this assignment and hope to continue editing for Wikipedia. But to answer the initial question, yes the changes were made and I made additional edits (to make the article flow a bit better and to make it seem like one coherent piece rather than a collection of facts). Ira.morga3 (talk) 07:28, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
  • Just wanted to note that Ira.morga3 added comments on November 24 and December 23 to the Talk:1994 Gambian coup d'état page, where this nomination is transcluded, rather than here on this page. I have inserted them above, so that they are all in one place, where the DYK reviewers will see them. Ira.morga3, if you could reply here going forward instead of there, that would help. Many thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:55, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
  • Thanks for the above. The article looks a lot better now, but there are still some typos here and there (including a case where there's a space before a period). This will be good to go once it gets a nice copyedit. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:19, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
  • I requested a copyedit for this article from the Guild of Copy Editors, which has been completed. There was a major problem with the final source, which I have removed; I'm unable to find it online, or any material from it. The final sentence should be properly sourced. The copy editor, Baffle gab1978, found (and fixed) some non-neutral text elsewhere in the article, but couldn't check that sentence against its sourcing. Narutolovehinata5, can you please revisit this review, and Ira.morga3, can you please find a new source for that final sentence (and address the "clarification needed" tag) and report back here (not on the article talk page) when you have done so? Thank you very much. BlueMoonset (talk) 16:33, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
The article looks much better now and I'm willing to give this the tick once the issues with the last sentence are resolved. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 02:12, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
  • Alt: ...that the 1994 Gambian coup d'état is considered the paradox to Third Wave Democratization? Within the article: Because the Gambia had changed from being a democracy to a more autocratic state in that period, it is often considered paradoxical to this trend by many scholars. (My emphases.) I'd guess that the capitalization in the former and the "often" in the latter are superfluous. Those minor points aside, are "paradox to" and "paradoxical to" common constructions? I don't say that they aren't, but they're quite alien to my English. (I don't recall having encountered either.) Unfortunately I know nothing about (the) Gambia, but I dimly infer that the coup was/is considered a/the exception to third wave democratization and to this trend. -- Hoary (talk) 12:49, 16 February 2019 (UTC)
  • Narutolovehinata5, I have removed the problematic final sentence from the article, so the issues with it are no longer relevant. However, you will want to look at the above comment by Hoary before giving the article a tick. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 04:28, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
@Hoary and BlueMoonset: One possible solution would be to rephrase the wording in either the article, the text, or both. As far as I know, "[a] paradox to" and "paradoxical to" are acceptable in English, but if readers find it too confusing, perhaps wording such as "an exception to" or "contrary" might work better (unless the source uses paradox instead). Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:11, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
Narutolovehinata5, if you confirm that these uses are idiomatic in your English, then I happily withdraw my minor quibble. -- Hoary (talk) 01:28, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
While those terms are grammatically correct, I don't think "paradox" is the right word in any case. Perhaps the better term would be something like "counterexample", as that seems to express the thought better. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 01:47, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
Narutolovehinata5, if ALT1 is proving problematic, perhaps the original hook would be the better choice? BlueMoonset (talk) 05:39, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
I suppose ALT0 can also work (I never rejected it anyway, I originally said that either that or ALT1 could be used). Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 13:25, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
Narutolovehinata5, then what is stopping you from approving it and the nomination? You can strike ALT1 if you don't think you can approve it with "paradox" as part of it (and the concerns listed by both you and Hoary seem germane to me.) BlueMoonset (talk) 01:36, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
I actually don't have that many problems with the "paradox" wording, merely that I understand why it could lead to confusion. I actually find it better than ALT0 since bloodless coups have not exactly been uncommon in history. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 08:31, 23 February 2019 (UTC)
  • It might help to point out that one of the major sources of this article, FN2, is titled The Paradox of Third-Wave Democratization in Africa: The Gambia Under AFPRC-APRC Rule, 1994–2008. The source for the sentence that mentions "paradoxical" (FN19) is behind a firewall, so I can't read their phrasing, but it's clear from the FN2 title that at least one scholar thinks it's a way to think about this. A number of the definitions of "paradox" in Webster's use the phrase "contrary to", so I would infer that "paradox to" is okay in the hook; I'm not sure that "paradox of" would be any better, but I offer it for consideration anyway, since FN2 uses it. While "paradox" may not be the best word here, it does appear to be accurate. If anyone is confused by it, they can click on the article to get more context. BlueMoonset (talk) 14:31, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
Proposing ALT1a with "a paradox of" rather than "the paradox to": it's probably not the only paradox around. BlueMoonset (talk) 14:36, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
That sounds OK to me. (However, I haven't read most of the discussion above, and either I am new to DYK or I am newly returned after a very long absence.) -- Hoary (talk) 10:09, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

This nomination has dragged on for too long now (four months!) After much discussion, I think the issues have now been resolved. I am now approving both ALT0 and ALT1a, leaving the final choice to the promoter. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:13, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

  • Copying the icon from the previous entry so it is easily visible for promoters; it's been five days without action, which is surprising for such an old nomination after it's finally approved. BlueMoonset (talk) 06:35, 3 March 2019 (UTC) (Note: yes, I know it's my ALT1a, but it's Narutolovehinata5's review and improperly placed icon; I have nothing to do with the approval.) BlueMoonset (talk) 06:38, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
  • @BlueMoonset: @Narutolovehinata5: @Ira.morga3: sorry guys, I don't want to put a dampener on this when it's already taken so long to approval, but I'm not sure ALT1a is really accurate. The article seems to talk about the period from 1974 to the 1990s as being the paradox of third wave democratiazation (which is not capitalised, incidentally). Not the coup itself. As for ALT0, is it really interesting to a broad audience? Many coups are bloodless, so this is not particularly an outstanding fact about this one. Perhaps if it was stated as such in the context of the previous very bloody 1981 coup that might be better... Otherwise perhaps a reworking of 1a to say that it ended the paradoxical third-wave stage rather than being it in itself? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amakuru (talk • contribs) 11:21, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
  • Sorry, I've spent all the time I can on this nomination. Ira.morga3 did this for a class and while they did stick around for a little while afterward, it's been over two months since their last edit, so we have to consider them out of the picture. If someone else wants to actually write new hooks (Amakuru, it looks like you have a good handle on this), that would be great, and thank you. Adding a ping to Narutolovehinata5, since the pings in the last post didn't work without the sig. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:33, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
  • How about these?
Not sure if those wordings or facts are good enough for DYK, but they could be possible options moving forward. @Amakuru and BlueMoonset: Thoughts? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 08:49, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
@Narutolovehinata5: yes, ALT3 looks fine to me. I'll be a little bold and approve that one now. Anybody who objects can do so in the coming hours or forever hold their peace.  — Amakuru (talk) 22:44, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
  • approving ALT3 per discussion above. I can't check the source, so it's an AGF approval, but all else seems in order with it.  — Amakuru (talk) 22:44, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
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