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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by  Tentinator  08:18, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

"Where are your keys?"

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  • ... that the game "Where are your keys?" enables students to learn any language from a fluent speaker, without books, classes, or formal study?

Created/expanded by Djembayz (talk). Self nom at 21:31, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

  • Reviewed: Hugh Lee Pattinson
  • Article looks OK, but the hook reads too much like an advertisement. Try to pick a fact that's explicitly stated and cited in the article. Focus (talk) 03:52, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Rcsprinter (post) @ 17:28, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

ALT1 isn't quite right, as There is no limit on the number of languages, and you don't need to make a new game for each language. Once you learn how to play the Where are your keys? game, you can use the method with any native speaker who is willing to try it, regardless of what their language may be. In other words, this is a method can be used for learning any language you happen to come across, providing you have a patient native speaker. You don't need to know what language it is that they are speaking. Djembayz (talk) 02:33, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
  • Didn't see a notification on the nominator's talk page, so I just now left one. — Maile (talk) 22:41, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
  • Looks like this is ready for a re-review, which should address issues raised in the original review and subsequent fixes. Thanks! BlueMoonset (talk) 17:05, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

The clause "even when no books are available" does not seem to be present in the article, and I can't seem to find it supported by the sources that I clicked through. Otherwise, it's not a particularly interesting/hooky hook... Can I suggest a rethink? ˜danjel [ talk | contribs ] 17:05, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Hope this hook works-- if not, feel free to write another. Djembayz (talk) 18:29, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
  • ALT3 hook needs to be reviewed for sourcing and interest. BlueMoonset (talk) 14:27, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

I hope omitting "that" works here. --George Ho (talk) 16:17, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

  • With respect to WP:IAR, I like it. But I think that this might need to be discussed by others at WT:DYK. ˜danjel [ talk | contribs ] 15:41, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

I don't think either alt4 or alt4a work because the full sentence should be "Do you know" rather than "Did you know". Another alternative would be to use the original hook but adding the "is designed" phrase from Alt2 to get around the promotional issue. Gatoclass (talk) 12:13, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Striking the two ALT4 variants; agree with Gatoclass on the sentence problem. Any thoughts on ALT3? Or Gatoclass's proposal? BlueMoonset (talk) 23:51, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
Date, length, and hook confirmed for ALT 3. In my opinion Alt3 is the best in terms of hookiness - the original is unwieldy. Intelligentsium 03:26, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

I've unpromoted this hook from prep3, after raising the issue at Wikipedia talk:Did you know#Template:Did you know nominations/"Where are your keys?". My concerns were: How is this hook a) not an advertisement and b) supported by the article and reliable sources? As far as I can tell, this is sourced from [1] which looks suspiciously like a blog. Are there any scientific studies or at least mainstream sources that confirm that this game means that you (yes, you!) can learn to speak any language fluently? Another user replied "If anything the hook currently violates WP:YOU and should be pulled." So here we are! Fram (talk) 16:41, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

You could also argue that the article is a bit stubby. Moswento talky 11:40, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
This game is a technique that endangered language communities, especially Native Americans, are using to develop conversational fluency. Foreign language instruction for major written languages already has print resources and established curricula to use, so only a few people are trying the "Where are your keys" in major written languages. The technique is designed to work with unwritten or poorly documented languages, and for situations in which formal instruction/curricula either aren't available, or aren't helping the student gain spoken fluency. The game improves "conversational fluency," the ability to express one's ideas verbally without hesitation, with an understandable pronunciation. It is my understanding that some endangered language communities have encountered linguists who are purely focused on their own academic studies, with no interest in helping revitalize the language, and hence, may have little interest in collaborating in the creation of printed "mainstream secondary sources" which have no practical value for community members. As far as the endangered languages go, I would suggest that the people attempting to preserve and promote their own languages *are the authorities on said languages,* and can be considered a reliable source.
I'd be satisfied with either ALT4 or adding the phrase "is designed"; but perhaps ALT5 works better:
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