Talk:Zeila (historical region)

Its own region?

Wasn’t Zayla apart of Adal? Richard Pankhurst identifies Zayla as being apart of Adal on the Ethiopian borderlands (Pg 52) محرر البوق (talk) 17:27, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Yes but Adal was called Zeila by the Arab world hence it deserves its own article. Magherbin (talk) 17:31, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

Ibn Batutta

Ibn Batutta stated that a journey through the land of the black berbers (Somalis) took 2 months and their land extended from Zeila to Mogadishu. He never said the land of of Zeila took 2 months to traverse. Here’s the direct quote. “I took ship at Aden, and after four days at sea reached Zayla (Zeila, on the African coast), the town of the Berberah, who are a Black people. Who are followers of the Iman al-Shafi. Their land is a desert extending for two months' journey from Zayla to Maqdashaw (Mogadishu). Their beasts of burden are camels, and they possess sheep which are famous for their butter. The people are dark skinned and most people are rejecters (Shiite people who rejected the first three caliphs.)” TriSolar (talk) 20:05, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

Zeila refers to the top half which includes Harar and Ethiopian Muslim territories, Mogadishu was its own polity (assuming it included the bottom half along with north Kenya). This makes sense as even Coffee and Khat are in Zeila (Harar plateau) not in modern Somali territory. In a way yes he is also including the bottom half so I think it would be ok to include Mogadishu in the statement. Magherbin (talk) 22:51, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

Zelia and harar were seperate cities, zelia existed before harar, his page shouldn't even exists, you are massively reaching saying Zeila is in the Harar plateau, did you fail basically geography ? . Zelia servered a trading hub for all city states within ethiopia, not just harar, so your argument of since coffe and khat was sold there holds no value . Aurelius5150 (talk) 11:54, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

This article has nothing to do with Zeila city hence I dont know what you're on about. My statement doesnt mention Harar city either, try reading on the difference between Harar plateau and Harar city. Magherbin (talk) 02:11, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Request for this article to be deleted , user Magherbin trying to push habesha/harar agenda like he does in previous articles

like title says Request for this article to be deleted , user Magherbin trying to push habesha/harar agenda like he does in previous articles , this page is not needed as it adds nothing of value , info already exists in the zelia city page. User Magherbin trying to create an article where he can control the narrative to push this new age harari-habesha agenda which contradicts with history and geography Aurelius5150 (talk) 11:57, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

This article wont be deleted its well referenced even got compliments from page reviewers [1]. Pages dont get deleted because an editor doesnt like them. Magherbin (talk) 02:17, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Zeila Inhabitants

Whoever added the inhabitants sub page, please note that original work is not allowed on Wiki and is a suspendable offense. Secondly, the Somali farming source is laughable, considering all Ethio-Semetic languages use Bil to describe the winter season, they say Belg in Amharic and Balda in the Harari language. Also karam is in all Ethio-Semetic languages as well, the first month of the Ethiopian calendar is what? Maskaram XD. Hararis use the word kirmi to describe the super rainy season. Only Somalis that use Karan and Bil as noted by the author of your source are the North West Somalis, aka Awdal. See the connection?

Also a funny thing noticed in your other source where you mentioned the Somalis who spoke Somali language in Zeila BS which the author didn't even mention that, in fact mentioned the exact opposite, if you actually read the book it mentions how 7 tribes inhabited Zeila. Sounds a lot like the whole Harla 7 tribes of Abogn, Adish, Gaturi, Hargaya, Gidaya, Awari, and Wargar.

TLDR, please stop partaking in disingenuous interpretations of the author's work since that is a suspendable offense. GetRektLLLLL (talk) 06:27, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

@Samira1985 Please read the above statement, not to mention that in Al Umari's text, he mentions that both Abysinnia and Ifat used Bil and Karam. Al Umari never said Somali language. If you keep adding original research, I will bring the mods and they can handle you. GetRektLLLLL (talk) 04:26, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

The 7 tribes claim is stated by al-Mufaḍḍal and he mentions the king of Gidaya in his works. Its not clear if they're referring to the town or the region its abit confusing to say the least. Al-Dimashqi is another geographer that refers to Zaila by its Harari name Awtal see encylopedia Aethiopica [2] Magherbin (talk) 07:39, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Isn’t Awdal the Somali name? Or is it both? Matan ibn Uthman (talk) 12:10, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

It appears he uses both the Somali and Harari term for it. Magherbin (talk) 20:57, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Hararis say Aw Abdal, named after the famous forefather in Harar. They use Aftal to refer to Zeila. Somalis also use Awdal. The thing is there was lots of interconnections between Hararis and Somalis for more than 500 years, that is why it doesn't make sense to me that some armchair experts on Twitter say crazy things like "Harari" fake ethnicity claims. Its like bruh, there is a reason why your clan elders share mutual respect with Harar and Hararis, it goes way back. No one talks about where Sheikh Jabarti came from. You know there was an Abysinnian province next to Wej called Gabar-ge? In the Harari language that means "the land of the Gabar." Darod's forefather is a literal Harla. We are more related than you think. Emphasize the ties we have, you can literally do that alongside Somalinimo. GetRektLLLLL (talk) 02:03, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Yeah old documents have different variations of 7 "clans" "districts" whatever. Its messy. GetRektLLLLL (talk) 01:57, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Inhabitants

@GetRektLLLLL stop the Vandalism Fage never says that “Zayla’i” was Semitic. Multiple sources show that Garaad and Aw are Cushitic words later adopted into the Harari language. The graves at Amud are Somali in style. Matan ibn Uthman (talk) 23:02, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Read page 146-147 and then get back to me. Regarding Garad and Aw, I literally took that from a source added by someone else that talked about Harari loanwords in Northern Somali dialects. Interesting read, you should definitely check it out. Lots of Harari loanwords in Af Somali, the author explains how he was able to prove it. Even in Futuh, is Goita Tedros a Somali name? Harari influence in the Somali language goes back, and that is what the Somali loanwords document talks about.

Regarding Amud, the old people of Zeila told the British themselves that the Harla used to live there. I don't know what better source you want than the inhabitant's mouths. Instead of trying to steal people's history, you should focus on emphasizing the ties modern Somali clans had to these ancient groups. There are lots of ties, like your name being the name of the great brother-in-law of Imam Ahmed. Or the fact that Marehan get their clan name from a Harari word. But that is a tangent and my original research. GetRektLLLLL (talk) 05:11, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Content related to Zeila city should be at minimum here, since there's an article for it see Zeila. Matan ibn Uthman, I saw that you added original research regarding what Al-umari didnt state in the reference. A proper inhabitants section for Zeila historical region article wouldnt include one language since the region spanned from the Somali coast into central Ethiopia prior to the Oromo invasions. As this source explains "country of Zayla consists of ethnically mixed populations of Semitic and Cushitic language speaking traders, agriculturalists and pastoralists" [3] Magherbin (talk) 07:02, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

I’m just adding what Said Shihab said Matan ibn Uthman (talk) 12:11, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Quit removing content Maqrizi isn't discussing the leaf. Magherbin (talk) 18:52, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

That is outright false though. Karam and Bil aren't Somali terms for the seasons, Ethio-Semites use them. The source you provide is outright lying by trying to create a false tie between Bilo (month) and Bil (a season in Ethiopia). In Ethiopia Belg is literally winter. Karam/kirmi is summer rains. Only Awdalis use Karan, and I have a source that says Awdal has been influenced by Eastern Ethiopia. GetRektLLLLL (talk) 19:41, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

I have gone through every single source and nowhere does it say Ethiopian Semitic languages languages were being spoken in Zeila. I also read page 146-147 and it doesn't speak of Zeila once. If a Semitic language was ever spoken in Zeila then it was strictly Arabic and only for commercial and religious reasons. The land was always inhabited by the Dir clan hence the connection to Jafar ibn Abi Talib and Aqeel ibn Abi Talib. Walashma dynasty have the same origins as Dir. Aw Abadir is not Aw Barkhadle. This page has been distorted. Geelrac (talk) 13:58, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Leslau shows that Garaad is a Cushitic word stop the hotepry.

https://www.persee.fr/doc/ethio_0066-2127_1959_num_3_1_1310 Matan ibn Uthman (talk) 12:30, 10 February 2024 (UTC)