Talk:Zebroid

Zebret

Zebret actually refers to a hybrid of a male donkey and a female zebra.

Fertility

Nowhere does the article state whether Zebroids are fertile or infertile. Mules and hinnies are infertile as are most other mammalian hybrids. Is this, as a rule, also true of zebroids? Virgil H. Soule (talk) 01:53, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

zebras crossed with horses are typically infertile.

If I am not mistaken however, zebroid crosses between zebras and donkeys are often fertile. However these crosses are rarer since it introduces the zebra temperament with few other advantages not already possessed by the donkey. However I need a reference for this.

Jeffrey L. Sadler

M. N. S. Biology Adjunct professor Drury University —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.195.110.54 (talk) 12:49, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

I also came here looking learn if they are fertile or not. I take "Professor Sadler's" word for it without checking to see if he actually exists and tracking him down to see if it was actually him who wrote the above or not. Neverthesless, could we get a reliable source for this information and add it to the article? I mean I appreciate Professor Sadler's telling us this here, but could we get him to cite it for us so we could add it to the article? I'm tempted to add it myself and just put a "citation needed" tag for it as I think it's safe such a professor did write the above and knows what he's talking about.

If a firtile cross is possible there would be a strain of Zebroid developed by now, the fact that there is not such a strain means that there has never ben a firtile cross and all the instances of this stated are pure hoaxes or fiction.(prove me wrong E. Theodore Breedlove.)

The article mentions a documented hybrid produced by crossing an Arab mare with a Zebra stallion, and that the female offspring of that cross also produced a foal when she was herself bred to a black Arab stallion. Thus, second generation fertility has been demonstrated.

I would like to know (1.) if a fertile lineage has ever been established, and (2.) if any breeding program has manage to consistently produce hybrids which were resistant to the tropical diseases which are so dangerous to horses in Africa. Janice Vian, Ph.D. (talk) 03:56, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Speed

What's the fastest, zebra, horse, zorse, or hebra? Readers of this article want to know. My money's on the Hebra! Chrisrus (talk) 06:47, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Telegony

In the article's section "Historical and notable zebroids" the first link of Telegony point to Telegony which is a "lost ancient Greek epic poem about Telegonus". I belive it have nothing to do with this article and that the link should point to Telegony (pregnancy) which is a "theory in heredity holding that offspring can inherit the characteristics of a previous mate of the female parent. Later on in the text such link existe but the first, if it is truly wrong is to be corrected. pc84 (talk) 18:28, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Fixed. Thank you for pointing this out. Dana boomer (talk) 18:35, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

the "AKA" section should move

the wikipedia standard format of "also zedonk etc." is misleading because it leaves to the user to decipher that all of the combinations are called zebroids, but zedonk must only be with a donkey, etc.

A zebroid is the offspring of any cross between a zebra and any other equine: essentially, a zebra hybrid. (Also called zedonk, zebra mule, and zebrule)

also, the quagga article reflects the latest research that shows that quaggas are just a variant of one "actual" zebra species, so the mention of quagga in this article might reflect that 96.224.34.168 (talk) 19:29, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. Go ahead and be WP:BOLD!Chrisrus (talk) 19:56, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Genetics - breeding

The article states, "Before this comes into account, a successful mating needs to be accomplished in the first place." Isn't this patently false? The information about mating behavior in wild vs. domestic equines is interesting, but given the prevalence of artificial insemination in horse breeding, I'm doubtful of its relevance. (Also, no source is cited in that section.) -- Super Aardvark (talk) 19:52, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

That material is unreferenced, and I suspect a hoax.

This subsection is a mess, very poorly referenced. I suspect much of the material in this section could never be properly referenced. I suspect much of the material lapses from WP:original research. Geo Swan (talk) 18:01, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

This section currently wikilinks to the article on Haldane's rule. In doing so I suspect it completely misses to point of Haldane's rule. Mammalian sexuality works differently than non-Mammalian sexuality. Mammals have XX females and XY males. Birds have sex chromosomes called Z and W, which, if I recall correctly, work backwards from mammal sex chromosomes. Bee, wasp, ant and termite sexuality is also different from mammalian sexuality. All fertilized bee eggs hatch into females. Hormones from a hive's healthy queen suppress the fertility of her worker daughters. When a queen is ill, or dies, her hormones no longer suppress her daughters fertility, and some of them will lay unfertilized eggs. Those unfertilized eggs hatch into males called drones. No X and Y chromosomes.

Whoever linked to Haldane's rule seems to have wanted to say male hybrids were infertile, because they lacked a Y chromosome. I strongly suspect all male hybrids have a normal Y chromosome.

I am not suggesting that, in this article, my personal opinion should over-ride the position of anyone else's personal opinion. Rather the content of this article should comply with WP:VER, WP:NOR and WP:RS, and shouldn't include any of our personal opinions. To the extent the material in this section can't be documented with good references it should be removed. Geo Swan (talk) 18:19, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

I fixed your tagging, which was overkill (you tag the paragraph, not every sentence and the whole section to boot) and added an overall refimprove tag. Remember: WP:DONTPANIC. However, I agree with your point that the one paragraph in question is pretty dubious. I say if no one who cares finds a reference for it within about a week, I would not object to seeing that paragraph removed. Montanabw^(talk) 19:43, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

for the record, Montanabw: "I say if no one who cares finds a reference for it within about a week, I would not object to seeing that paragraph removed", this is not how it is supposed to work. People are required to satisfactorily report their references together with the original edit. If they do not, the material should be removed on sight. If you "object" to such a removal, the burden is on you to provide the necessary references yourself, which will make the entire thing your own contribution based on your own research. Citing "DONTPANIC" was not, in my opinion, called for in this case, as nobody was being emotional at all. The relevant guidelines would instead by WP:ENC and WP:RS. --dab (𒁳) 09:35, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

This is a silly article to be so upset about. Given that the above discussion occurred two years ago, what is your rush? Seriously. The rule at WP:RS is derived from WP:V and states "The policy on sourcing is Wikipedia:Verifiability, which requires inline citations for any material challenged or likely to be challenged, and for all quotations." No, WP doesn't mandate everything to be immediately sourced (though as a major contributor to over a dozen featured articles, I would agree it is wise to do so). If you think something is wrong, frankly, fix it yourself. Tag it if you can't fix it or lack expertise (or time), but keep in mind that a lot of us put other articles as far higher priority than this one. Montanabw^(talk) 09:18, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Zebra and a donkey makes a zonkey. I'm very disappointed that a donkey and a zebra don't end up making a 'debra'. 86.138.166.207 (talk) 20:29, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Terminology

Please exert some minimal restraint in reporting lists of ad-hoc portmanteau names. I have no doubt that people keep making them up in any number and completely ad hoc ( zonkey, zebonkey, zebronkey, zebrinny, zebrula, zebrass, zedonk, zebadonk) but this is supposed to be an encyclopedia. Try to distinguish between random ad-hoc terms and terms actually used in the relevant literature. For the latter, cite a date for when they were first used, and if possible by whom they were introduced. If you cannot do that, please just refrain from inserting anything at all. --dab (𒁳) 09:31, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

We had separate articles on many of these, (zorse, zonkey, at a minimum) and merged them all into this one. Some of these may well be overkill, (like "zebonkey" perhaps) but look at the redirects history. Montanabw^(talk) 09:12, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

The reference used for this list of zebra/donkey hybrid terms itself references this article. I've tagged this circular reference. A bit of research suggests that "zonkey" does not appear to exist in the Merriam-Webster dictionary, and in that dictionary "zebroid" is defined as "related to or resembling a zebra". Google ngram viewer shows no hits for zebonkey, zebronkey, zebrinny, zebrula, zebrass, and zebadonk, but *does* show results for "zonkey" and "zedonk". On "zonkey" the earliest reference is this 1954 book Steiner, Lee (1954). Make the Most of Yourself: A Psychological Guide for Normal People. Prentice-Hall. p. 251. where the term is associated with "Mr Gene Holter", a "California zoo man". The story of the "zonkey reveal" is later used in various English test preparation texts. The first reference for "zedonk" seems to be in 1984: "Despite the New Yorker and Sir Alec, the better bet for longevity, at least among the z words, is zedonk. This is the animal produced when a male zebra mates with a female donkey, a blissout that first hit the barnyards in the mid-1970s." McCarthy, Colman (1984). Involvements: One Journalist's Place in the World. Acropolis Books. p. 202.. Pvanheus (talk) 07:40, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

One final terminology note. Recently there has been discussion of the term "debra". Unfortunately this is quite difficult to research, but the earliest references I can find refer to a "Debra the Zonkey" 1 and 2. While there is an analogy here with "ligers" and "tigons", it doesn't look like "debra" is gaining a lot of traction as a term. Pvanheus (talk) 12:43, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

As no one commented further on the plethora of unsourced terms, I have removed all terms except ones for which I can find evidence - i.e. zonkey and zedonk. Pvanheus (talk) 08:46, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

Number of chromosomes

Hi, I arrived on this page from the Italian equivalent https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebrallo , intrigued by the high variability of the number of chromosomes of zebras (from 32 to 64, as I read here). Now, apart from the fact that the italian page reports a different range (from 44 to 62), can anyone explain the reason why of such this peculiarity? As far as I know virtually all felines, from cat to lion have 38 chromosomes, all breeds of dog 78 and all of the horses, from ponies to Shires have 64... thanks in advance! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.41.205.57 (talk) 11:58, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

Prevalence in (South) Africa

The page contains the claim "In South Africa, they occur where zebras and donkeys are found in proximity to each other" with no source. While I can find a page (https://www.news24.com/news24/southafrica/news/zonkie-the-zonkey-is-a-happy-soul-says-owner-20160113) about a zonkey in South Africa, it has no info on the provenance of this animal. The news report does however state (without a source) that zonkeys occur in "parts of Africa" due to wild donkey herds roaming in the same areas as zebras. Another case is reported from Kenya (https://www.sheldrickwildlifetrust.org/news/updates/zonkey?fbclid=IwAR3FzckDLijCSUBb0wEpahfp_CN-yV4WJ5RiTr0G722jUcYAtJFxL2zMJGM). I have contacted the owner of Zonkie the Zonkey to find out more about this animal's parenting. As to roaming herds of wild donkeys, the African wild ass has limited range (http://www.equids.org/afwass.php) that does not appear to overlap with zebra ranges. While feral donkeys do exist in parts of South Africa (https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15627020.2018.1557018) again there is no clear evidence that they are interbreeding with zebras. Pvanheus (talk) 08:45, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

That should probably be removed if a better source can't be found. Until then, I'm for leaving it in just in case. BuySomeApples (talk) 09:44, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Zonkeys today

Oaklawn farm zoo in Nova Scotia, Canada has historically and continues to have Zonkeys on display to this day 47.55.95.160 (talk) 22:34, 7 January 2023 (UTC)