A fact from Yogie Suardi Memet appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 26 March 2023 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
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... that when he led Indonesia's Special Forces, Yogie Suardi Memet also had to lead two other units, resulting in the unit's leadership being done by his deputies? Source: Kopassus: Inside Indonesia's Special Forces, p300: "Yogie [...] got concurrent assignments as head of the Siliwangi military command for West Java and chief of the even larger military region covering all of Java and Madura. Wearing three hats, it came as little surprise that he often left Kopassandha leadership in the hands of deputies."
I'm not very comfortable with the use of "thugs" in that hook. I understand it technically would be fine since the subject is deceased, but I can't help but feel that it would still go against the spirit of the rule (i.e. for hooks to avoid emphasizing negative aspects about a subject). Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:40, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
As long as it's verifiable and follows a neutral POV, I really don't see why we couldn't. We can't apply BLP-based rules to subjects that don't fall under BLP. Now, if you wanted to argue that the hook breaks NPOV, that's a different matter. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 09:42, 24 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
BlueMoonset, I've had a look at the source but page 156 doesn't show as a full page; I only get it in snippet view when I search for "thug". And that snippet doesn't offer me enough context to sign off on this. Google Books is often more restricted in NZ than what users get to see in North America or Europe. Does the full page show for others? Schwede6622:20, 17 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Schwede66, interesting. I had looked at page 156 in the book when I updated the reference in the article on March 11 to give the page number, and was able to view the page through Google books (but only via the old version), confirming that it supported the whole sentence being cited, and also that "thugs" was the word used in the book. If you search for "Memet", the previous page also alludes to the events. Unfortunately, I cannot view that section of the book now, and don't know why, but I suspect it's because I didn't switch immediately to the old version of Google books but instead tried to scroll to page 156, though it may simply be that they've cracked down further on how much of the book is visible, stopping in the 70s. BlueMoonset (talk) 03:31, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
BlueMoonset So you’ve seen it but can’t give it a tick and I can AGF it, which I’m comfortable with given that you’ve seen it. That should be ok but say if you don’t concur. Schwede6604:46, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The source is available at Open Library; it does use "thugs" but also "dissidents" if we want a more neutral term. (It also provides the detail that the disruption involved crashing a jeep into the conference building, which could be an interesting hook if it were worked into the article.) Sojourner in the earth (talk) 10:25, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for that, Sojourner in the earth. ALT2 checks out. "Thugs" should be ok as the book says "the minister called in the thugs of the previous day" and it was the second day when they caused some real issues. I do agree, however, that crashing a jeep into the building would make an even better hook. Juxlos, are you sure that the person's common name is "Yogie Suardi Memet"? He is referred to as "Yogie Memet" in the book. Schwede6609:11, 19 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
All good. Done a bit of editing on the spelling of the names. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 04:54, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
for original hook. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 12:25, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
I'm not sure I love the hook – it's not boring, I suppose, but it's also not super compelling? It's an interesting fact, but I don't think I'm hooked by the end. Is there another hook that could be found? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 09:00, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
Reviewer needed for ALT2. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:04, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
Thanks for that, Sojourner in the earth. ALT2 checks out. "Thugs" should be ok as the book says "the minister called in the thugs of the previous day" and it was the second day when they caused some real issues. I do agree, however, that crashing a jeep into the building would make an even better hook. Juxlos, are you sure that the person's common name is "Yogie Suardi Memet"? He is referred to as "Yogie Memet" in the book. Schwede66 09:11, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
