Talk:World Zionist Organization

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Picture Zionist Congress

The picture displayed has been taken in Basel as far as I know and not in Cologne. To my knowledge the first two one's have also taken place in Basel. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.82.1.40 (talk) 12:11, 15 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

1897 - 1901: Yearly Congresses

The Jewish Congresses were held yearly between 1897 and 1901 (http://www.hagshama.org.il/en/resources/view.asp?id=1248) and not on two-year duration as mentioned in the article

First Zionist Congress

Distinct article, please.

Yours truly,--Ludvikus 19:11, 3 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Max Nordau

Shouldn't he be worked in here somewhere. It says he was co-founder of the organization with Herzl. Sammermpc 17:27, 13 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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Chofetz Chaim and Reuven Grozovsky removal explanation

@Meir Hakoton, you reverted my removal of content I deem undue with the edit summary "RV vandalism. Religious opposition is relevant and not "undue". If you'd like to discuss Do it on talk page". Please note that due weight means "all significant viewpoints that have been published by reliable sources, in proportion to the prominence of each viewpoint in the published, reliable sources".

The material I remove is ABOUTSELF from what appears to be a small group. To add the material back, I suggest finding reliable secondary coverage of this or to better establish the significance of these sources. Freelance-frank (talk) 12:46, 21 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think 2 paragraphs explaining why most haredi jewry doesn't participate in wzo elections is in proportion to prominenc e. That's not a small group in any way. I can bring more sources to that. https://jsoundbites.podbean.com/e/from-minsk-to-monsey-the-life-of-rav-reuven-grozovsky/ demonstrates Grozovsky's leadership on this issue. Meir Hakoton (talk) 04:32, 22 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This is still not coverage in Wikipedia:Reliable sources. If this detail is true and worth including, it should ideally come from an independent, published, editorially-controlled source with a positive reputation. Freelance-frank (talk) 14:40, 22 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to add that the biggest haredi party is a member of WZO, so this claim about 'holier than thou' seems total crap. Also, what the chafetz chaim supposedly said one hundred years ago or so in a different context is completely irrelevant and out of place in this article. This is not halachipedia.Zachary Peloquin (talk) 05:36, 23 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Adding more info about Shas joining which was covered tangentially in the third paragraph is fair. The article is not about the WZO today. But includes its history so what Haredi leaders wrote about it back then IS relevant. Also, Rav Elyashiv talking about Shas joining is a more recent article from 2010. And frank, the Yated IS a reliable published editorially controlled source even if you disagree. Meir Hakoton (talk) 09:14, 24 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

To editors Zachary Peloquin and Meir Hakoton: Per WP:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel_articles, neither of you is entitled to edit this article. You can discuss it here in a non-disruptive way, and attempt to get consensus for your view. Zero^talk 13:45, 25 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Zero. Reverted to page prior to edit warring. Freelance-frank (talk) 13:15, 26 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Um, you started the edit warring. you're simply reverting the page to your whitewashed version of history. Not sure why you want to keep this information from the public. Or why you insist on using Zachary as an obvious sockpuppet! Meir Hakoton (talk) 01:28, 27 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The information is true. Has reliable sources. and is relevant to page. It's not a secret that the vast majority of haredim don't join the WZO. It was the basis for the keynote speech at the Agudah convention in 2020. So this is not some historical point but is relevant to why a significant group is opposed to joining the WZO. That's not propaganda. It's just facts. This is real intellectual dishonesty. and no consensus. Was this the resolution you intendedZero? Meir Hakoton (talk) 01:37, 27 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Meir Hakoton: I haven't made any judgement about the detailed content, and I agree that the topic is notable. But having something repeated added and removed without end is worse than not having it. You should start a new section and present the text you would like added and an argument for it. Starting with a small amount of the most important material is more likely to achieve something than going for everything at once. Zero^talk 01:55, 27 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Religious opposition to joining WZO

Rav Elyashiv published a letter criticizing the Shas Party for joining the World Zionist Organization (WZO) in 2010. He wrote that the Party "is turning its back on the basics of Charedi Jewry of the past hundred years. In the words of Gedolei Yisroel: 'Zu Neveilah she’ein kamosa'." He compared this move to the decision of the Mizrachi movement to join the WZO [over one hundred years ago] which was the deciding factor in their separation from "authentic Torah Judaism."^[1] Meir Hakoton (talk) 02:35, 1 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Is the para above the text/source you are asking to be included in the article? Selfstudier (talk) 10:49, 1 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

yes Meir Hakoton (talk) 02:34, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

following up. can you include this paragraph.so article doesn't white wash religious opposition which is well documented Meir Hakoton (talk) 08:07, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No one has objected, where do you want it included? Selfstudier (talk) 09:42, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

i would think with the new heading Religious opposition to joining WZO. placed right under history.before presidents Meir Hakoton (talk) 07:20, 26 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I added it, I didn't put a new section as it is only a single event and quite short. Selfstudier (talk) 09:20, 26 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

thanks Meir Hakoton (talk) 05:29, 27 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Elyashiv, R. Yosef Shalom (2010-01-22). "Nevelah Ne'esta B'Yisroel" [An Atrocity Done in Israel]. Yated Ne'eman.

ZO or WZO before 1960

When was the name World Zionist Organization actually adopted? The art. states that in 1960. Maybe de jure, with a much older de facto use, even in documents? See for instance the 1943 Biltmore Declaration, paragraph 5. So, any sources on that? Thanks, Arminden (talk) 16:35, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Breaking news: Yiddish and 'loshn koydesh' are English - not!

I have removed

In the words of Gedolei Yisroel: 'Zu Neveilah she'ein kamosa'.

Welcome to the ghetto, where Yiddish and loshn koydesh, the Holy Language (Hebrew + Aramaic) may be liberally mixed with any other unholy vernacular. Not OK on enWiki? Oy, gevalt!

I have created a redirect from Gedolei Yisroel to Gadol. If (if!) this passage is to be reintroduced, it MUST read:

Gedolei Yisroel ('the Great Ones of Israel', the most revered rabbis of their generation)...

As far as the mumble-jumble goes, I coudn't figure out the meaning of

'Zu Neveilah she'ein kamosa'

Unless this is translated and the English introduced, the passage has no right of appearing on enWiki. Get real. Arminden (talk) 11:33, 4 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It means "I'm dying for a samosa." But, seriously, non-English is allowed if the translation is also given (and it is notable, properly sourced, etc). Zero^talk 12:12, 4 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Of course I know that, knocking at open doors, I'm using the method myself, but here it isn't comprehensible, neither of the 2 parts - not translated, not based on even seldom-used loanwords, and not easy to figure out - Google didn't help. So 100% mumble-jumble. This exact phrase (obvious copy & paste) was on enWiki on the page of a rabbi, probably famous in yeshiva circles, but I've removed it there as well with a note linking to this discussion here. Ppl who live in a narrow, self-contained world, but mistake it for THE world - and worse, trying to impose it on others. The root cause of much of the trouble everywhere, otherwise I'd be less vehement about it.

I'll try to find a somosa now, sounds tasty, I was only aware of the nasty guy by that name. Arminden (talk) 12:54, 4 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Elyashiv, R. Yosef Shalom (2010-01-22). "Nevelah Ne'esta B'Yisroel" [An Atrocity Done in Israel]. Yated Ne'eman.

[1]