Talk:Works attributed to Florus

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Merge

Florus, Julius Florus, and Publius Annius Florus may be one, two, three, or more different people. Wikipedia follows the 1911 Britannica in assuming they are different, based apparently on an 1855 source; but the three articles also include citations from other sources that assume they are the same. Since there is so little material about any of them, it is better to merge them and explain the uncertainty in one place. The relevant works can be discussed in separate sections of a single page. jnestorius^(talk) 13:02, 3 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Baldwin, B. (January–March 1988). "Four Problems with Florus". Latomus. 47 (1). Brussels: Société d'Études Latines de Bruxelles: 134–142. Retrieved 3 May 2016. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |subscription= ignored (|url-access= suggested) (help)

jnestorius^(talk) 13:05, 3 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Jnestorius:—thanks for the ping! What you're suggesting makes some sense, given the potential for reduplication and confusion if information is spread across three articles. I'm still inclined to let each article be separate, though, given two other dangers: presenting information that applies to one of the Flori without it being clear to the reader which one is meant, and making an original synthesis as we try to present that information in a coherent way. I could be convinced otherwise though. All the best, Q·L·1968 ☿ 15:39, 3 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a synopsis of the three articles at present:

Article name	was...	Works	Dates	Other bio	Identified with
Florus	"a Roman historian"	Epitome of Roman History	c.74–c.130	born in Africa; lived in the time of Trajan and Hadrian	"In the manuscripts, the writer is variously named as Julius Florus, Lucius Anneus Florus, or simply Annaeus Florus"; "he has been identified as Publius Annius Florus"
Julius Florus	"an ancient Roman poet, orator, and author"	Epitome of Roman History ; poems including “Quality of Life”, “Roses in Springtime”, “Roses”, “The Rose”, “Venus’ Rose-Garden”, and “The Nine Muses”	c.74–c.130	born in Africa; accompanied Tiberius to Armenia; lost Domitian’s Capital Competition due to prejudice; travelled in the Greek Empire; founded a school in Tarraco, Spain; returned to Rome; a friend of Hadrian	"variously identified with Julius Florus, a distinguished orator and uncle of Julius Secundus, an intimate friend of Quintilian (Instit. x. 3, 13); with the leader of an insurrection of the Treviri (Tacitus, Ann. iii. 40); with the Postumus of Horace (Odes, ii. 14) and even with the historian Florus."
Publius Annius Florus	"Roman poet and rhetorician"	Virgilius orator an poeta; Twenty-six trochaic tetrameters, De qualitate vitae, and five graceful hexameters, De rosis		born in Africa; accompanied Tiberius to Armenia; lost Domitian’s Capital Competition due to prejudice; travelled; founded a school in Tarraco; returned to Rome; knew Hadrian	"identified by some authorities with the historian Florus." "generally agreed that he is the Florus who wrote the well-known lines quoted together with Hadrian's answer by Aelius Spartianus" "for an unlikely identification of Florus with the author of the Pervigilium Veneris see E. H. O. Müller, "

I think this brings out how confused the current articles are. Really there are three groups of works by men called Florus:

Virgilius orator an poeta
Epitome of Roman History
Poems (26 tetrameters, and 5 hexameters about roses)

We know a little about the author of Virgilius from the autobiographical introduction. We know nothing about the authors of the other two other than their names, and even those vary in different manuscripts. Different scholars have identified the three men variously with each other and with others.

My revised suggestion is to make articles about the works (Virgilius orator an poeta, Epitome of Roman History, Poems of Florus). Any name that is only used in relation to one of the works can redirect to that work. Any name, including Florus itself, that is used for more than one should redirect to Florus (Roman name), which can be expanded (MOS:DAB does not apply) to discuss the confusion and conflations. The Virgilius article should have the autobiographical details; the Epitome and Poems articles will state of their author that nothing is known for sure but the author is sometimes identified with the author of ..." and {{moreinfo}} to Florus (Roman name). jnestorius^(talk) 14:09, 18 May 2016 (UTC) jnestorius^(talk) 14:09, 18 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

In regard to the chart above, how could the person identified as Florus have accompanied Tiberius to Armenia if Tiberius died in 37 and Florus was not born until 74? Was there a 2nd Tiberius I'm not familiar with? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.225.82.53 (talk) 20:28, 29 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

‎@Jnestorius: It is all rather quiet over here ... I like your 2016 suggestion of restructuring, but wonder (given the overlapping relevant questions of attribution) whether these could all be combined on one page like Works of Florus; such a page would not be too long, and would also allow the incorporation of discussion of the nature of Florus, but giving primary place to the works (as you suggest). Klbrain (talk) 17:17, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Klbrain: Hm, maybe. Danger with the article name "Works of Florus" is that invites the assumption that Wikipedia favours the theory that all the works were written by one and the same person. I suppose an appropriate opening sentence could counter that assumption. jnestorius^(talk) 11:51, 27 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Jnestorius: I see the problem; is Works attributed to Florus any better? That perhaps given a sense of uncertainty in the title. Klbrain (talk) 21:44, 12 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Fine by me jnestorius^(talk) 22:19, 12 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Done but please feel free to check/edit/amend. Klbrain (talk) 14:55, 13 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Works attributed to Florus which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 01:49, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion now at Talk:Florus#Requested_move_27_December_2023 – robertsky (talk) 13:25, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]