Talk:Western philosophy

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Classical & Hellenistic

User:Keepcalmandchill Would you care to discuss here your edits which depart from the status quo ante and which I have continuously needed to revert? Teishin (talk) 01:03, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You have given no explanation for the removal of the original and sourced content that was in the section before, and replaced it by copying the same section from Ancient Greek philosophy. I think that it makes sense to have the earlier version, which is more concise than the current one, has better sourcing, and allows the two articles to cover the same topic in different depth. Keepcalmandchill (talk) 01:08, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I gave an explanation. The Cynics are a Classical-era school. Antisthenes was a student of Socrates. The most famous Cynicy of all -- Diogenes -- lived in the Classical era. Teishin (talk) 01:15, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The foundation time does not matter, Academic Skeptics were also founded during the Classical period. Most of the activity of the school happened after that (they survived into the Roman period). I have provided a source (can provide more) that clearly links them to the Hellenistic period, while you have provided none calling them Classical. Keepcalmandchill (talk) 01:34, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This article is organized historically -- about periods. Hence foundation times matter. The Academic Skeptics were not founded during the Classical period. They started in 266 BCE. Alexander died in 323 BCE. They are a Hellenistic school. Teishin (talk) 01:52, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

True, I got that wrong. Does not refute the point that I have provided a source linking the Cynics to the Hellenistic period. I can provide more sources. Keepcalmandchill (talk) 02:01, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Of course you can find sources that link the Cynics to the Hellenistic period. You can find sources linking Platonism and the Peripetictics, too. These things are beside the point. This article is chronological. Correspondingly, I can point you to adherants of these philosophies that exist far outside their supposed time ranges. Start with Modern Stoicism. Teishin (talk) 02:17, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please provide sources which call these schools 'Classical period'. if there are sources which call them Hellenistic and non that call them Classical, then it is clear that the convention is to call them the former. Keepcalmandchill (talk) 02:22, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please provide a calendar which shows that Antithenes, Diogenes, and Aristippus did not live and teach during the Classical period. Of course there are sources that call them Hellenistic. Their teachings were popular during the Hellenistic period. The same is true of Plato and Aristotle. Teishin (talk) 02:28, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have explained already that the founder's lifetime is not as significant as the school's flourishing period. Sources > your intuitions. Keepcalmandchill (talk) 02:39, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have explained already that this article is organized chronologically. Factual dates > your feelings about significance. Teishin (talk) 02:46, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Compromise: Division between classical thinkers and their schools

I have a new suggestion for a compromise: the Classical section covers the thought of the Cynical and Cyrenaic thinkers who were contemporaneous with Socrates, Plato and Aristotle. The Hellenistic section then explores the thought of these schools in comparison to other schools of the period. This maintains chronology, as well as the comparative aspect (which is what I am concerned in salvaging). Keepcalmandchill (talk) 05:37, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I like this compromise idea. --Pfhorrest (talk)

That sounds fine to me. As long as the Classical schools are recognized as Classical and not miscategorized. Regarding comparing the schools active during the Hellenistic period it is worth noting that Platonism continued into the early part of the Hellenistic period and that while the Lyceum was short-lived as an institution, Peripatetics existed through much of the Hellenistic period. Another issue of miscategorization in prior edits is about ataraxia. Only the Pyrrhonists and Epicureans held ataraxia as a goal, not all of the schools. The common goal among the schools was eudaimonia. Teishin (talk) 13:54, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent! I've now changed the article so that it has the previously existing section on Hellenistic philsophy, but without mentions of the Classical period thinkers, and with the mentions of ataraxia and apatheia only in the relevant contexts. Let me know what you think. Keepcalmandchill (talk) 14:53, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am concerned about the inaccuracies that have been introduced into the article. For example "(in addition to Plato's Academy taken over by the Skeptics and Aristotle's short-lived Peripatetic School)" is inaccurate. The Skeptics did not take over the Academy. What happened was that the Academy's scholarch switched the Academy's doctrine to a skeptical interpretation of the Platonic dialogs. Aristotle's school was not short-lived. While it is true that the formal institution was short-lived, Aristotelianism continued without a formal institution. Indeed, most of the Hellenistic schools lacked formal institutions during all or part of the period. Re the "influential" claim, this seems to be an unnecessary and contentious insertion of Grayling's opinion. Pursuit of ataraxia or apatheia was not common, contrary to the claim in the article. Thorough study of philosophy was not introduced "by Cicero," contrary to the claim in the article. And that's just what's wrong with the first paragraph. Teishin (talk) 16:36, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

philosophy as human existence

Philosophy is said to be the existence of humans if we say philosophy is the study of the way of life of people we also say that it's studies the behaviour,the way human think,the way we sleep, the way we eat, and so on so we then to say that biography and auto biography is also the existence of humans that is why philosophy is the study of human existence

By Augustine Onumaechi 105.112.208.240 (talk) 12:49, 3 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Islamic philosophy

This article needs a section on Islamic philosophy. Srnec (talk) 23:07, 17 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Biases

I take issue with how wikipedia falsely tries to give credit to eastern philosophy for the creation and evolution of western philosophy and there being no equilevant on the eastern philosophy page. This showcases wikipedias typical anti-western bias and should be fixed 2A02:2121:305:A058:7901:4716:EE9:77E (talk) 12:31, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]