Talk:Welsh Intermediate Education Act 1889

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Welsh Intermediate Education Act 1889 article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Politics of the United Kingdom

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Politics of the United Kingdom on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Politics of the United KingdomWikipedia:WikiProject Politics of the United KingdomTemplate:WikiProject Politics of the United KingdomPolitics of the United Kingdom articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Law

	Law portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Law, an attempt at providing a comprehensive, standardised, pan-jurisdictional and up-to-date resource for the legal field and the subjects encompassed by it.LawWikipedia:WikiProject LawTemplate:WikiProject Lawlaw articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Wales Mid‑importance

	Wales portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Wales, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Wales on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.WalesWikipedia:WikiProject WalesTemplate:WikiProject WalesWales articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Education

	Education portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Education, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of education and education-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EducationWikipedia:WikiProject EducationTemplate:WikiProject Educationeducation articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Relevance of the Blue Books to this Act

I added under 'See also' a link to the 'Treachery of the Blue Books'; it was reverted by DeFacto with the comment 'cannot see the relevance here'. DeFacto bore da to you! - both are historic milestones in Education in Wales in the late 19th c.; that makes them very relevant. Both are muttered in the same breath in many academic works and national media, as every 14-16 year old would know eg

Example 1: Welsh Government - both terms are used in the same paragraph:

A popular play, 'Brad Y Llyfrau Gleision' (The Treachery of the Blue Books) caught the angry mood and gave a name to the affair. The Welsh campaigned for better education, and especially for state-run secondary schools. They wanted to be in the forefront of the ‘modern’ Victorian age. In 1889 the Welsh Intermediate Education Act set up these secondary schools but, crucially, all teaching was to be done in English..

Example 2: Taylor Francis Online: Education and Nationhood in Wales: An Historiographical Analysis : Within this period, there is particular emphasis on such episodes as the ‘Treason of the Blue Books’ in 1847, the Welsh Intermediate Education Act of 1889...

I'm very surprised that you cannot see the relevance, or is it that you not like the term Treachery of the Blue Books, as I can see that you've deleted it from many similar articles?

Please state why it not relevant to this article. Lastly, I've annotated the 'See also' link as per MOS:NOTSEEALSO, just in case anyone else cannot see the relevance. Thanks for your interest in Wales: what's the attraction? Llywelyn2000 (talk) 07:58, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Llywelyn2000, as it stands, there is no parallel drawn in the article which makes it relevant. Perhaps after some article expansion, its relevance might become apparent to readers, but for now it is not. The term is fine if its context has been explained, but otherwise it is meaningless to those not well-versed in Welsh nationalist politics. -- DeFacto (talk). 08:08, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It's meaning and relevance are both explained by means of the brief description? Martinevans123 (talk) 08:11, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Martinevans123, which was not there before I removed it, and which doesn't really explain its relevance anyway. -- DeFacto (talk). 08:15, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ah good. Progress then. There have hardly been a huge number of Education Acts which have applied to Wales? Seems a perfectly reasonably topic for the "See also" section. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:20, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Martinevans123, that 'see also' isn't about an education act though, and its relevance isn't apparent from either the current article content or the description added to it. -- DeFacto (talk). 08:27, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, not strictly an "Act of Parliament". But, you know, it's about education in Wales? It caused quite a stir. I see many articles with quite a few items in their "See also" sections that have no explanation at all. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:30, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, if we accept that the content of the Treachery of the Blue Books article is related to this article - perhaps because these are the two most important articles, amongst at least eight others in the history of education in Wales category, related to the history of education in Wales, then shouldn't we at least give the official name of the thing it covers that makes it relevant, to add valuable context? Perhaps like this:

"Treachery of the Blue Books" - the 1847 Reports of the Commissioners of Inquiry into the State of Education in Wales which caused uproar in Wales for disparaging the Welsh

Just a thought. -- DeFacto (talk). 08:56, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]