Talk:Vernon Jones

Untitled

This page seems to be only promoting Vernon Jones instead of discusing his political career. Perhaps it comes from a strict supporter of the CEO?

Auburnirishman 01:46, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Uhmm, thanks for nothing Office of Vernon Jones.

I concur. This article mentions nothing about the CEOs two rape allegations, or anything else about the continued destruction and discrediting of his administration. I live too close to this idiot to be unbiased, so I'll leave the editing to someone who doesn't completely hate him. A simple google search will reveal a lot of juicy and scandalous information, so get ready to get on your high horse. Don't forget to read about his controversial hiring of disgraced Dallas police chief Terrell Bolton, that's a good one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Grufti (talk • contribs) 03:46, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

I have added every conceivable controversy that I can remember from Jones's tenure in office. Please feel free to edit and add more. I do this not to try to scathe or hurt Mr. Jones, but rather to bring to light history that has taken place during his time in office. — RBADAMS —Preceding unsigned comment added by RBADAMS (talk • contribs) 02:35, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Okay, not 24 hours since I added information to the article is it all dismissed, called "vandalism" by wikipedia. I specifically sourced every controversy and put it in this article as unbiasedly as possible. I am calling for this article to be LOCKED until someone who obviously is a Jones supporter can stop trying to "hide" his past. RBADAMS (talk) 02:59, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

I attempted to add more clear citations to the less flattering aspects of the entry before it was reverted. However, when I came back to look at it the next day, it had been reverted and placed under semi-protection; I have not edited enough entries to edit this article while under semi-protection. However, this article remains biased. As Mr. Jones currently faces a run-off and a possible general election in November, it is all the more vital this article show all sides of Vernon Jones, not just information found on his campaign pamphlets. LovesPolitics9 —Preceding comment was added at 22:54, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I will concede that maybe I didn't cite everything correctly, as wikipedia rules say that I should. However, it is imperative to Georgia voters that they be aware of Jones's good accomplishments and his bad controversies. I will not add these entries to this article again, as I just don't have the time. However, I encourage anyone out there to please include the following: voting himself a pay raise twice (he's now paid more than the governor); his insistence to be called "Mr. CEO;" his terrible relations with women (such as verbally assaulting a female citizen in her front yard; shoving Elaine Boyer up against a wall after she voted against one of his resolutions; and the threesome/rape allegations); allegations and rumors that Jones may be a closeted homosexual (rather or not these are true doesn't matter; the fact that the rumors are out there does matter); the botched rape investigation that led to his police chief resigning; his hiring of four police chiefs in a five year period and how a good number of DeKalb police were "held back" for not sharing his views on law enforcement, leading to low morale and high turnover; his promotion of black managers and reverse discrimination against white managers and the civil rights lawsuit filed against him by the latter (and his interesting comments during the secret deposition that he "did not know the U.S. Constitution, but knew DeKalb County;" that he did not consider the use of the racist n-word (I refuse to say it) to be offensive; and that he thought that the literal "n-word" meant "nice"); his vetoing of a commission bill that would mandate that all bars in DeKalb County close at 2 a.m. instead of 4 a.m.; his (and the council's) hiring of former Gov. Roy Barnes in an illegal closed door meeting to attempt to file a lawsuit blocking the Dunwoody cityhood. These are all I can remember. The information is out there. If nothing else, go back and see what I previously wrote. PeachPundit.com is a great source that cites most of its news back to AJC.com. PLEASE — someone fix this! RBADAMS (talk) 05:25, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

The problem with this stuff is Jones has never even been indicted on any of it. I'm surprised there isn;t a decent source on the allegations but I guess maybe papers like the ajc don't want to tackle it because it's all still rumor. If you want to defeat Jones... do what I;m doing and get your friends who wouldn't normally vote in a primary to vote for Jim Martin. You never know... it may make a difference.--Dr who1975 (talk) 02:43, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Whether or not he has been indicted doesn't matter; it happened, so that makes it worthy of a wikipedia entry. I'm not trying to disgrace him through wikipedia because of my own political beliefs, but I just believe that the voters out there deserve to know these things. And I'm not trying to start a flame-war, but I am a Georgia voter who actually regularly votes, so... yeah. Good one. RBADAMS (talk) 17:17, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

But your comment misses my point... the newspapers aren't reporting it because it's all just allegations... if you can find a decent source... then put the allegations in there... otherwise don't. This is the rule with wikipedia.--Dr who1975 (talk) 14:32, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Actually, the AJC has repeatedly reported on these "rumors." Most of them have been verified. I was in the process of finding the articles on the AJC website for citations when the Vernon Jones Wikipedia article was put under semi-protection. As soon as the protection is removed on August 1, I will be revamping the page with the proper citations. --LovesPolitics9 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.158.247.201 (talk) 14:35, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Paste your potential changes here... I'll look them over and add them now if I think they fit into wikipedia rules.--Dr who1975 (talk) 14:37, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Controversies

However, Jones's time in office has not been without controversy. In December 2004, an unnamed woman accused Jones of rape, though he claimed the action was a consensual threesome with another individual. The victim maintained her story, but later dropped the charges.

Furthermore, Jones has had a contentious relationship with the Parks Department and the DeKalb County Police Department. Jones has been sued for systematically promoting under-qualified blacks to management positions over equally qualified whites in the Parks Department. Jones hired the current police chief, Terrell Bolton, after Bolton was fired from the Dallas, Texas Police Department. Bolton faced criticism concerning his management of the department and the faking of evidence by officers to make arrests.

On his website, Jones acknowledges being a conservative Democrat. However in the past, Jones has told the press he voted for President George W. Bush in both 2000 and 2004, saying he chose to do so because "Al Gore and John Kerry never campaigned in Georgia," despite both candidates having done so. Additionally, Jones donated more than $2,464 in two separate donations to the Georgia Republican Party in 2001.

8 U.S. Senate campaign

Main article: Georgia United States Senate election, 2008 On 23 March 2007 Jones announced he was running for the United States Senate against incumbent Republican Saxby Chambliss.

In campaign literature, Jones’ campaign sent out a flier in which he appears in a picture next to Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama with the words "Yes We Can." However, Obama himself stated he not only never posed with Jones (the picture had been digitally altered), he did not endorse Jones for the Democratic nomination for Senate. In response, Jones blamed his "liberal opponents backed by the liberal media" for trying to ruin his campaign. Jones has also received criticism for the appearance of the tagline "VOTE Vernon Jones for GA Senate" on tickets, produced using county funds, for the Dekalb County Blues and Jazz Festival. The company who printed the tickets, supporters of Jones' campaign, have taken responsibility for the incident.

I know a lot of this probably hasn't been cited correctly, but I tried my best. I took out the stuff that is most definitely rumors. I also think the article needs to include a picture of Jones himself and a picture of the controversial flier. I've provided links to both: Jones: http://www.northfultondemocrats.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/vernon.jpg

Flier: https://www.ajc.com/search/content/metro/stories/2008/07/03/vernon_obama.html --LovesPolitics9

The wording needs a little bit of work to be less POV... I also need to check the sources myself... I'll see what I can do tonight.--Dr who1975 (talk) 16:15, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

I trust that (trustworthy) wikipedia editors will handle this in a mature, fair and balanced way. While I may respectfully disagree about this in some areas, I feel that we have reached a pretty good compromise. Sorry if I "trashed" this article. I thought that I had sourced things pretty well, but I guess I could've done it better (I'm a bit of a wikipedia novice when it comes to editing, but use it frequently to learn about stuff). Keep up the good work. RBADAMS (talk) 23:50, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Is there going to be any movement on this page? Any idea when the semi-protection will be removed? --LovesPolitics9 —Preceding undated comment was added at 16:47, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

I got busy with work... I may try to revisit this in a fair way in the future. It should be less controversial now that Jones is out of the election.--67.62.103.180 (talk) 21:07, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Recent Additions

While I completely agree these are probably some of the reasons he lost the election, this statement is pure opinion:

Jones' admission to voting for President Bush twice, along with donating to the Republican Party are likely reasons for his defeat to Jim Martin.

As a result, I removed it from the page.

Additionally, I added Jones' admission of voting for Bush back into the US Senate Campaign section with a citation. LovesPolitics9 (talk) 22:57, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

I had left that after removing other fluff that was on the article, and my mistake for not checking for citations. I think this whole article needs major rewriting, since all of it is about controversies. Just look at the "2008 Senate Campaign" section. The first sentence is his announcement to run, then after that it's all criticism/claims he is actually a Republican. I am currently gathering sources and information and plan on completely revamping this page sometime this evening. I am hoping others will contribute and expand the article while keeping with WP:BLP. Cwagmire (talk) 20:37, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

New revision

I just finished revising the article to include Jones' stance on many issues, as well trying to move the controversies into the other sections. Any feedback on the new parts of the article, as well as areas that still need changing would be appreciated. Cwagmire (talk) 23:50, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

I corrected the grammar in the new additions. However, I think those additions are "overkill." Vernon Jones' office is not of huge state, national, or international signficance or to a substantial portion of the population. Therefore, his poliltical reviews, if included, should be limited to a paragraph summary, not a long list of short snippets. As for the controversies, they are entirely relevant and of great importance, especially in light of his decision to run for such a significant political office. Jones' entire time in office as CEO and his time campaigning for Senate have been shrouded in controversy. Although he did do good work for the county in terms of park space and the senior citizen's center, he has completely isolated the administrative portion of the county government from the police department, the board of commissioners, and the northern half of the county. He has greatly polarized the county in terms of race and socioeconomic classes. I understand and support your desire to add more "positive" aspects to the entry; however, the negative aspects of Vernon Jones' time in office cannot be minimimzed. LovesPolitics9 (talk) 01:32, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't think I tried to add "'posititve' aspects," just facts. And as per the negative aspects, I think they belong in there just not in a section labeled controversies (see Barack Obama and John McCain for how I think they should be done). You also said these additions are "'overkill'" because his office is not of huge significance, then you say the negatives are important because he decided to run for a "significant political office." This somewhat doesn't make sense to me; The entire reason I put those issues in is because he ran for national office, as most of those deal with his opinion of the federal government's job and not DeKalb County's, so I think we somewhat agree here. I tried to base the issues section on those of other senator's wikipedia pages, since Jones was running ultimately to become a Senator. And for full disclosure, I did not vote for Jones, nor did I vote for any of his opponents, I voted for Chambliss. I think the article has a NPOV, though I would just prefer the controversies into the writing instead of bullet point style, and I think the issues I included are important considering his decision to run for a senate seat, although if there is strong disagreement I wouldn't be opposed to moving them all into a new article (such as "political positions of Vernon Davis") and only putting a paragraph in his bio like you suggested. Cwagmire (talk) 02:18, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

I made an article with all his political positions (called "Political positions of Vernon Jones") and changed the issues section to reveal a small paragraph. I hope this is more in line with what you proposed. Cwagmire (talk) 02:25, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Racism allegations

Should we remove the allegations of racism? Let's get consensus. Weegeerunner (talk) 22:37, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

I think not. The article drew my attention only because of the large changes. Some of the new text is not neutral and written more like you would expect from a campaign site than in a Wikipedia article. The lawsuit drew attention, and is certainly not undue when you want to describe the career of Vernon Jones. Sjö (talk) 04:15, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

I would, however, like to discuss changing the part about the district Court of Appeal in Controversies. It didn't award damages, but remanded the case. Also, in the lede, I thinke the quote "In sum, this evidence showed compellingly that Jones, as the CEO, was the architect of a racially discriminatory scheme, a scheme that was designed to produce the overt discrimination the plaintiffs suffered." is a better description of the heart of the matter, as far as it concerns Jones. Sjö (talk) 04:24, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Some sources that might be of interest:

A lawsuit was made in 2004. In 2006 the case was ready to be put before a jury (also has a link to that opinion). http://atlantaunfiltered.com/2009/07/21/fired-dekalb-rec-director-had-stormy-7-year-history/

Another story about the 2006 decision. http://www.daltondailycitizen.com/news/discrimination-lawsuit-against-dekalb-county-to-go-to-trial/article_10b255b9-c77b-5dac-baec-f5fd13d0d850.html?mode=jqm

And one more, with a concise background http://www.law360.com/articles/14035/reverse-race-discrimination-case-continues

Total cost to the County: http://www.georgianewsday.com/news/65651-dekalb-county-to-pay-1-3m-in-race-discrimination-lawsuit.html Sjö (talk) 16:48, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Edits to Vernon Jones article

I have been trying to update this page and clear up false information. It appears that there is a need to paint a very negative light on the subject, who has requested this information be removed. By no means is this editor trying to remove any "facts" and my recent attempts to clear the article up have bee with resistance so since we can not reach a consensus and appear to be going back and forth as to what to allow I would welcome the opinions of other editors.

Removing the paragraph states Jones was charged with racial discrimination is an all out untruth. The charge of racial discrimination was thrown out by the Courts as stated in the section under controversies that was updated to show the courts' findings. Why would the charge of racial discrimination be allowed to stay in the article when he was cleared of these allegations? Moving the issue to the section for controversy is fair and having more of this "living person's"" actual achievements highlighted in the introduction seems fair as well.

Theses facts have been highlighted in The Atlanta Magazine, a reputable magazine that has been circulating in the area. Why would these references not be considered reputable as was given the reason for disallowing these changes. Changing the tone to reflect a more positive nature at the request of the biographer should be granted.

Understanding rewrites being rejected

I was asked if my sources more reliable after making an effort to rewrite an article. I used some of the very same references that was used by the edits before I made my rewrites. If something is FALSE and you rewrite to reflect such, why would that be deleted? The information I changed was from a more reliable source and sometimes the same source. Why are the edits not being allowed if we can prove the information is false?

First paragraph: Jones was found guilty of racial discrimination in a federal lawsuit upheld on appeal in 2009.

This is a false statement and should be REMOVED. I cited the AJC as a reference.

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/dekalb-discrimination-suit-jones-ordered-to-pay/nQdqL/Genesis20 78 (talk) 23:14, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

If the article is to reflect a living person and the rewrites show him neutrally in a more positive light, why would you keep the original content when it is false. The reference given is merely the FILING document, it is not litigated and it is the plaitiff's claim. The article above tells that the ruling came back not exonerating Jones and the other defendants of racial discrimination. You allow this to be published yet when there is a correction to correct this, it is rejected. Why? Genesis20 78 (talk) 20:32, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

I checked the "Bryant v Jones" reference as part of my work updating all bare URL references in the Controversies section. That is not a filing document; it is the 11th Circuit Court decision, signed by federal appeals court judge Gerald Bard Tjoflat. Carl Henderson (talk) 22:47, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

I also updated the "Jones was found guilty of racial..." to the more accurate (and source supported), "While DeKalb County was found liable for racial discrimination, the jury rejected those claims against Jones, but held that he had "created and maintained a hostile work environment." Of the original four plaintiffs against Jones and the County, only two were rewarded damages." Carl Henderson (talk) 22:51, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Please avoid bare URLs in references

Please avoid bare URLs in references, or references consisting of only a URL and a title. Due to link rot, over time such references are more and more likely to vanish from the web, making it impossible to check or update them. I've started expanding the bare URLs in this article (and have done Controversy section). Carl Henderson (talk) 22:48, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Things that need to be improved

This article isn't NPOV; it is MPD. It swings from pro-Vernon Jones to anti-Vernon Jones almost at random. It needs to edited for NPOV throughout. I've started this, but it is a big task.

Additionally, a lot of Atlanta Journal Constitution references can't be checked. They don't appear on the archive on the website. I updated some with other references I could find, but there were a lot I can't find. I hope someone with access to the ACJ's archives could take a look.

The "Issues" section needs a complete overhaul. I'm not sure it is even relevant anymore, as Vernon Jones hasn't been involved in any national or state races recently.

There are chronology problems with the Controversies section on "Accusations of racial discrimination". I think these are due to misunderstanding of the original suit, the summary judgment requests, it's denial, and the Jones appeal (Jones v Bryant). I tried to fix the section, but it needs more work.Carl Henderson (talk) 05:53, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

While I was working on DeKalb County CEO subsection, User:Sjö went in and cut the Gordian knot on the Issues section, reducing it to two lines. That was the right approach. I probably would have dithered about trying to streamline it down for hours.

I totally rewrote the Controversies section on "Accusations of racial discrimination". I've fixed the chronology issues and removed some redundancy, and tried to outline the case and its turns and conclusion as neutrally as I could.

I still need to do a final NPOV and citation checking pass, but I think the article is almost there (wherever that happens to be). Carl Henderson (talk) 07:43, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Done. After a near total rewrite, I think this is as good as I can get it. Carl Henderson (talk) 07:06, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

Really good work.Sjö (talk) 06:34, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. I'm submitting for GA status. I don't expect to get it on the first go through, but hopefully I will learn anything else I need to fix. Carl Henderson (talk) 00:53, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

05-28-2015 revert explanation

Additions to biographies of living people need to be well sourced. See the Wikipedia policies at WP:BLP and WP:REF. The addition of information about two of Vernon Jones great-grandparents had no source listed. Additionally, there is an issue of undue weight. The article does not mention the names of Jones father, mother, siblings, or grandparents, but out of the blue, there is a sentence on two of his great-grandparents.

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Vernon Jones/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Tomandjerry211 (alt) (talk · contribs) 12:15, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

• Will be starting soon.--Tomandjerry211 (alt) (talk) 12:15, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

---

This is a fine article, but still needs some improvement.

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, no copyvios, spelling and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Prose

• "rateed", typo, I assume. Done
• 2 duplicate links.
• citations in the Infobox and lead are unecessary.
• Everything in the lead and Infobox should be in the body.

Referencing

• Fix the "citation needed" tag.
• Four dead links.
• One fact without a source at the end of the "DeKalb county ceo" section.
• No space between citations. Done
• No space between period and citation. Done

--Tomandjerry211 (alt) (talk) 12:36, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

• @Carl Henderson: Are you still completing this review? If not, are you OK with me failing it?--Tomandjerry211 (alt) (talk) 21:33, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

  I'm sorry. For the last month my father has been in the ICU with West Nile, and I've not been able to concentrate on doing complex Wikipedia tasks. I've limited my work here (mostly) to Graphics Lab photo improvements and fixing partial citations, as neither requires a lot of thought on my part. I would like to work on the issues you identified, and believe I can fix most of them. I will do so as soon as I'm at a place mentally where I think I can do a decent job of it. If you need to go ahead and close this for admin reasons, I understand.

If you don't have to close it, I have a question for you in regards to dead links: Is it necessary that I provide new links to support the facts asserted, or can I rely on the original writers who examined the original Atlanta Constitution Journal articles (which are no longer on the web) and use the citations without links? Carl Henderson (talk) 22:21, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• VernonJones.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 08:52, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Emboldened to Trump

I would like to suggest a section which would chronological cite references of Trumps embrace, endorsement of him. Wikipietime (talk) 13:57, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

dates dont add up

From 1993 to 2001 Vernon Jones served as a Republican Party Pilitician in the Georgia House of Representatives. However in the same paragraph it states Vernon Jones as a member of the Democratic Party served in the Georgia House of Rep. from 1993 to 2001. How is that possible? 173.68.197.131 (talk) 18:33, 28 November 2021 (UTC)