Talk:Vaynol

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The name of this page - Vaynol or Faenol?

I really think that the title of this page should be Faenol, with a redirect to it from Vaynol, rather than the other way round. The word Faenol is used far more. Thoughts anyone? Hogyn Lleol (talk) 16:54, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cytyno'n llwyr! I wholly agree. The use of the Anglicised name is incorrect, insensitive and could be seen as insulting. The name 'Vaynol', as stated in the article, is a corruption of the far older Welsh word 'Faenol' and has only limited validity. The article should be assigned to Faenol Gwyddno (talk) 14:02, 31 December 2009 (UTC)GwyddnoGwyddno (talk) 14:02, 31 December 2009 (UTC).[reply]

The Welsh version is of course the "right" one for use in Wales – but isn't that because Welsh is the right language for a Welsh place? But this is not the Welsh wici, and in the English wiki we generally use the English name for places: Moscow, Rome etc. Also Cardiff, Swansea, Builth Wells, Newtown, Powys, Abergavenny. I can't imagine English people being much insulted by the titles of cy:Llundain and cy:Manceinion...

This is covered quite clearly by WP:PLACE – essentially the article can only get the Welsh version as its title if that is the one normally used in English – for example if "Vaynol" is generally only used in historical contexts. So, what is it usually called in English?

I've put in the pronunciation of both versions (have I got the Welsh right...?). Richard New Forest (talk) 00:37, 2 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In answer to the questions posed above, the spelling "Vaenol" is only today used in historical contexts. It is invariably, if not always, spelled as "Faenol" today. There really are quite compelling reasons to use "(Y) Faenol" as the title of this article, with "Vaenol" redirecting to it, rather than vice-versa. (A bit like Portmadoc > Porthmadog, Dolgelly > Dolgellau, and dozens of other examples.) Hogyn Lleol (talk) 12:59, 2 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Looking at Google, not sure that's right (in this case Google is probably quite a good guide to usage). Lots of hits for "Faenol", nearly all for the festival, few if any for the estate. Lots of hits for "Vaynol", all for the estate or derivatives. So where is it that "Faenol" is used for the estate? Also very few for "Faenol Great Hall" compared with "Vaynol Great Hall". What are the "compelling reasons" mentioned above? Richard New Forest (talk) 16:26, 2 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think you will find that the use of the name Vaynol or Vaenol predates the use of Faenol by a long time. There is little evidence of the Estate ever being known as Faenol until the Estate became used as a venue for Brynfest. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.145.143.56 (talk) 21:35, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Welsh get to say what it's called, and they call it Faenol. We must change this, I'm afraid. It's better to do it before things turn nasty. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.114.12.175 (talk • contribs) 09:40, 1 May 2010

It's the same word in English and Welsh, just spelt differently. The Welsh only get to decide how to spell it it in Welsh, not in Russian, Chinese or any other language. The English WP uses the spelling commonly used in English, whatever that is, as it does for the other names mentioned above. If it is commonly spelt Faenol in English, yes that is what we should use – but we need to see evidence that it is. At present all the evidence shows that in English it is normally spelt Vaynol.

Incidentally, one spelling "predating" the other does not signify: the name is far older than modern Welsh orthography, so of course "Vaynol" is older. Spellings can change: the critical thing is how is it normally spelt in English now.

And no, things will not "turn nasty" because I am sure all editors will remain civil. Richard New Forest (talk) 18:29, 1 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I feel that the spelling is more a question of usage over time than of language. You will see this, for instance, from this current link on the (English Language) BBC Website, which talks of the Radio 1 festival at Faenol. [1] Hogyn Lleol (talk) 21:38, 1 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]