Talk:Vanilla odorata

Major revision

Using the German version of the page I identified new sources for a description of the species. I uploaded new photos to commons. In addition I got a paper describing how the seeds are distributed that may be useful for a DYK hook. The page is far from complete but I hope to identify new sources to add additional information. 🌿MtBotany (talk) 04:47, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

More edits coming in the next five days, changed this page to "C" class since we're still somewhat incomplete. I'm using the Wikipedia library to try to find some additional good sources since archive.org is hard to use for this particular species given all the other plants in the genus. 🌿MtBotany (talk) 18:38, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

Added template to show where I put in some translated text from the German Wiki. 🌿MtBotany (talk) 02:47, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

Photograph vs specimen image

@AryKun: The reason I used a herbarium specimen for the main image on the page is that the only photograph from life that I was able to locate, the one you moved to the taxo box, is so unclear and cluttered. It does not do a good job of showing users what the plant looks like. Do you have a good reason why the herbarium specimen should not be used in the taxo box? 🌿MtBotany (talk) 21:13, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

I think even the rather crowded photo we have is a better representation of the species as most people would see it than a herbarium photo. Honestly, most people aren't going to be able to figure out how to analyze a herbarium specimen, so that photo really only helps botanists. We have a clearer photo in life from iNaturalist on Commons, check it out and add it if you think it would be good. AryKun (talk) 09:11, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

I think you underestimate non-botanists, but I have another alternative. Just last night I finally found a pen and ink drawing of V. odorata in a public domain book published in the US in 1925.

https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/263014#page/563/mode/1up

It is only black and white, but it looks accurate and has a flower unlike everything else I have been able to locate.

If you think that would also be too hard for the general public I think your proposed alternative is a good choice. There are just too many leaves from other plants in the wider shot that will mislead many people. 🌿MtBotany (talk) 12:59, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

okay, the drawing's nice. AryKun (talk) 14:03, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Cleaned it up and uploaded. Thanks for your attention and opinions.

Do you think that the herbarium specimen would be appropriate in the section on Taxonomy or would it make it too cluttered? 🌿MtBotany (talk) 15:23, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Side note/rant. I really wish there were a halfway choice between two words anywhere in the text and "this exact phrase". So often old botanical books would put the genus name on one line and the species name by itself on another line. It means if I'm looking for a text from before approximately 1890 I have to dig through a few jillion irrelevant results or get nothing. Especially the very early stuff with Latin descriptions using "odorata" as a word instead of a name. Though I suppose this is better than having to go through every text's index just looking or hoping that whoever did the card catalog was really obsessive.

But still. I can wish for a search that would be two words on the same page or on adjacent pages. 🌿MtBotany (talk) 13:15, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Fritzmann2002 talk 18:33, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that bees distribute the seeds of vanilla tlatepusco? Source:
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Władysław Umiński
  • Comment: The paper by Karremans et al. I'm referencing is not freely available, but if anyone wants to read it I have a copy and permission to share it by email to other researchers but not to post it online. Also, I did a QPQ, but this is only my 4th nomination.

5x expanded by MtBotany (talk). Self-nominated at 19:44, 24 October 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Vanilla odorata; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

• A major recent expansion. Impeccable sourcing. Beautifully written. I believe that this article is already at GA level. Plant and animal species seems to be Wikipedia's weakest link and I am always so grateful when someone takes the time to write something as good as this. I was able to verify the hook fact using other sources. I wonder whether it would be possible to create articles about these bees too and include them in the hook, and the only reason I am not giving a green tick yet is so that the hook does not get promoted before this is considered. If you do not feel like writing articles about the bees too, please just write so and we will wrap this up! Also, have you considered proposing an image as well? I do not think we get many plant images in DYK. Surtsicna (talk) 08:17, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
  • Thank you for the complements about the article. I actually took a very long time to work on it. First learning basic German to understand the article there without entirely relying on machine translation, then a long time hunting for pictures, and digging through old books online. Though it looks like I did this in a week it was actually about six months behind the scenes with a final push in the last week. I could churn out a stub for each of the redlinked bees quickly, but I'm hesitant because I'm really very specialized in plants and do not know very much about insect description terminology or how to describe them to a non-expert audience. I did a search in the Wikipeadia library for articles on Euglossa bursigera and reading the key in one article I felt completely at sea. Plus I could not seem to find basic information like size of the species. I'm also moderately specialized in species of Northern America. Obviously I can branch out, but I can get a solid "B" class article on something from the western US done in about two weeks instead of months. 🌿MtBotany (talk) 19:49, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

That is perfectly alright. Someone else will get to it eventually. Let's send this one off! Surtsicna (talk) 21:41, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Article looks great, promoting. If a peer review / copyedit is desired I'd be happy to do one before it goes to GA. Fritzmann (message me) 18:32, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

References