Talk:Value investing

This page has potential

• I think that this is an article/page at Wikipedia that could become much more substantial, and be a meeting place for value investors to add more tidbits of strategy, history, and resources. Let's try to pool together our knowledge and ramp up this article! Smeelgova 03:16, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

It still seems like a hazy concept. Where is a reliable source defining value investing? Linking to Graham's work, which is all we have in the introduction, doesn't define the term - he was just writing about what he viewed to be the correct methods of Security Analysis. Without a clear scope, there's all sorts of arguably irrelevant material. Is Buffett's performance really a core aspect of the concept of value investing? Mwaldman MA (talk) 21:48, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Commercial Content

• Agree this page could be more substantial. However, according to rules of community, blatantly promotional content may be in appropriate. Therefore removed reference to Value Congress and a few other things. Please respect rules of the wiki community.
  • In order to "respect rules of the wiki community.", one must define what is and is not of important to the average reader who stumbles upon the Value Investing page. The Value Investing Congress is not "blatantly promotional content", but a well regarded event attended by many other famous and successful investors besides Tilson. The reader would benefit from this information. I have no personal connection to the conference and have never been myself, but the list of investors who have attended speaks for itself. These include Bill Miller, Joel Greenblatt, and Marty Whitman, among others. Smeelgova 02:37, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
    • Smeelgova, I agree that the VIC is not blatantly promotional, but I do question its importance. At the least, I think it should be lower on the page, since it is somewhat tangential to the concept of value investing. This will be more important once we add more, such as the aforementioned concept of intrinsic value. Goodemi 18:56, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Organization

Howdy! This page looks to me like it needs a lot better organization--the lists of value investors is not in any order. Some of the sections seem misplaced. I think a section on how successful various value investors have been or how successful the basic value strategy is would be a nice addition. I'll see what I can contribute. Goodemi 16:10, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

I think talking about Buffett's article on the Superinvestors of Graham and Doddsville would be useful: http://www1.gsb.columbia.edu/valueinvesting/research/public_archives/DOC032.PDF

Changes to Well Known Value Investors?

• Put a short blurb on their investing performance?Goodemi 16:33, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Sure, converting some of the list into a narrative section and making the remaining list a sub-section would probably look much better. I always think that naked lists look too bare and uninformative. --GraemeL ^(talk) 16:49, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Value Investing

Thanks for offering to help on the value investing page, this can be a neat place to pool our resources in this area and create a nice article for visitors.Smeelgova 17:50, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Deep Value Investing

I created a page for Deep Value Investing which is more specific style of value investing and has also returned better results. Do you guys think it would be a good idea to add Deep Value Investing as a link on this page?

- Dave

• Dave--sign your name with 4 tildes. Also, why does there need to be a seperate page on 'deep value investing'? It sounds more like a marketing term than a widely used term. For example, I have not seen either Graham or Buffett use the term 'Deep Value'. They both, on the other hand, talked about buying stocks well below book value. At the moment, what new information you have on the deep value investing page could easily go in a section on the value investing page as a type of value investing: 'buying stocks below book value'. Goodemi 15:03, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:BenjaminGraham.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 04:56, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Adding an external link

I would be interested in hearing opinions of Wikipedia users about usefulness of adding this external link to the article: iStoskResearch Using value investing approach and methodology, iStoskResearch provides intrinsic (or fair) value calculations for most actively-traded US and Canadian stocks. Personally, I find it very useful. The model is also highly praised by Value Investing For Dummies and by High-Powered Investing All-In-One For Dummies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.122.208.187 (talk) 06:45, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

It shouldn't be there per WP:ELNO points 2, 4, 5, and 11. - MrOllie (talk) 13:39, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Criticism Section

With respect to the first comment regarding losses in bear markets, the citation is a dead link. Both comments in this paragraph should be expanded on in a much broader discussion. I think talking about losses or missing out on gains misses the point of value investing which is more of a long-term approach. Empirical research regarding long-term approach of such strategies should be analyzed. The issue of market timing seems to be a separate issue, imo, and is a problem for any investment strategy. I'm also recommending (see section below) a section be created on "Empirical Research" which I think will be valuable for the page but also valuable for people wanting to develop value investing strategies.

With respect to the second paragraph is probably a good criticism but should be put under a longer heading of "Intrinsic Value" which should discuss various formulas for calculating intrinsic value among other things.

Somrh (talk) 21:20, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Empirical Research

I think this would be a valuable section. Further it would tailor to Smeelgova's desire to have resources while still maintaining this page as being an informative article. Here are a few issues I think worthwhile to discuss.

1) Efficient markets hypothesis. In particular, for value investing to "work", markets must be inefficient (Graham likened markets to be "voting machines" in the short term.) As such any evidence related to EMH would likely be applicable here.

2) Studies on low P/B versus high P/B stocks.

3) Studies on Graham's 10 criteria and the evidence that shows that certain combinations yield outperforming results. Here I have in mind papers like Oppenheimer (1984), Oppenheimer (1986), Klerck and Maritz (1997).

4) Joseph Piotroski's research which is a followup on the low P/B results. Roughly speaking the EMH guys claimed that beta doesn't completely capture risk and therefore low P/B are financially distressed and therefore more risky (which explains why they have higher returns.) Piotroski's research shows that low P/B companies can be separated as financially distressed (low F-score) and not financially distressed (high F-score) and the ones that aren't financially distressed tend to outperform. Follow-up studies applied the criteria to the high P/B as well.

5) Other metrics might be of interest as well such as Altman's bankruptcy research and Beneish's earnings manipulation research.

Somrh (talk) 21:38, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Well-known value investors

would delte the following: "John Addis, co-founder of Intelligent Investor (Company) based in Australia, has been running the business on the principles of value investing since 1998.[8]"

the track record is based on model portfolios. everybody knows what that means.... the other well known value investors have real returns...

--Luckyseven77 (talk) 00:25, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

Value investing

Warren Buffett 2405:204:53A6:65DF:0:0:2429:F0A1 (talk) 10:51, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Benjamin-Graham-fundamental.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 10:36, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

Two meanings

I feel like this article needs to better articulate the two meanings of the term 'value investing'.

Most of the article refers to the original meaning i.e. "buying securities that appear underpriced by some form of fundamental analysis".

More recently, the term 'value investing' has become corrupted to also mean "buying securities with low valuation metrics" e.g. low price-to-earnings ratios or high FCF yields.

I don't like it, but we can't deny that this meaning is now in common usage - just look at the amount of investment managers now employing 'value' strategies. The article implicitly acknowledges the dual meaning, e.g. in the criticism section, but doesn't spell it out.

I'm a new editor so don't feel confident doing it myself, but perhaps if someone more experienced comes across this they could have a go at editing the introduction. PieLover3141592654 (talk) 07:39, 20 April 2023 (UTC)