Talk:Valimai/Archive 1

Archive 1

Please consider on grammar

According to this report they had reported grammar mistakes on this article. Hope you'll might follow them to get a class B value to this article. --TFE^Talk..! 14:39, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 February 2022

Some grammatical changes 182.65.130.64 (talk) 17:04, 25 February 2022 (UTC) please allow me to update some grammatical.

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 05:14, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 February 2022

Anonymous Nerd123 (talk) 08:10, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

Hey so i wanted to edit some of your grammar mistakes in plot section.

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 08:55, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

Copyvio Detector

See this report : https://copyvios.toolforge.org/?lang=en&project=wikipedia&title=Valimai&oldid=&action=search&use_engine=1&use_links=1&turnitin=1 . Hope violations want taken place later.😐 --TFE^Talk..! 10:51, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

Manobala Vijayabalan's and Ramesh Bala's box office figures

Many prominent news outlets use Manobala Vijayabalan, a tracker on Twitter as their source. It is high time that we noticed that this guy is unreliable. Here, Deccan Herald which uses Manobala as their source says Valimai grossed 36 cr on Day 1 and 24 cr on Day 2 in Tamil Nadu. The actual collections are 28.5 cr on Day 1 and 11.5 cr on Day 2 which can be seen at Bollywood Hungama. Manobala is notorious for posting fake collections. He has done the same before for Annaatthe, which he says grossed 150 crore in Tamil Nadu when no other reliable source published that it even reached 100 crore there. I require your consensus to remove the Deccan Herald source from Valimai and also place Manobala on the list of unreliable sources. @Kailash29792 @Ab207

(PublicEnemy54321 (talk) 22:28, 26 February 2022 (UTC))

PublicEnemy54321, there seems to be an assumption that Manobala Vijayabalan is reliable because he runs a verified handle. This is incorrect because many non-RS sites also run verified accounts. Being published in reliable sources may give them some creditability but Wikipedia:Fruit of the poisonous tree should also be considered. If Manobala's figures vary greatly compared to other sources without a good reason as you say, I'd support marking it unreliable. -- Ab207 (talk) 05:40, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

I've opened a discussion at WT:ICTF#Manobala Vijayabalan on his reliability. Interested parties are requested provide their inputs there. -- Ab207 (talk) 09:53, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

At this moment, I would also like to mention the unreliability of Ramesh Bala. This one is a self-proclaimed Ajith fan; he has tweeted several times about his love for Ajith. Those tweets have been deleted now. So there isn't any proof for that. Although, it is clear that he inflated the numbers of Viswasam. When the very reliable Firstpost stated that the film made 185 crore worldwide in its lifetime, Ramesh Bala inflated it to 200 crore to suit his agenda.

Box Office India recently published an article about how numbers are inflated whenever a film starring Vijay or Ajith is released. I don't know if this is enough evidence to place Ramesh Bala on the same table as Manobala, but the numbers provided by Ramesh Bala should be taken with a pinch of salt. @Ab207

PublicEnemy54321 (talk) 11:26, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

PublicEnemy54321, we should probably start treating these tweet attributed figures as WP:SELFPUB sources. Are there any Tamil-language sources which publish reliable box office figures? -- Ab207 (talk) 12:02, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

I don't think so. Box Office India is very reliable, but they rarely track Tamil films. When they do, they are accurate. Bollywood Hungama is also close to accurate but again they don't publish numbers of Tamil films very often. Among the news outlets, Firstpost and Mint give accurate figures for South Indian films, although the latter usually only quotes numbers given by Box Office India. Other sources, including even the well-known Times of India give highly inflated figures at times. @Ab207

PublicEnemy54321 (talk) 12:43, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

PublicEnemy54321, I see. What about Tamil newspapers and portals? Telugu newspapers, for example, publish articles like this which are well-researched and accurate. -- Ab207 (talk) 12:51, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

There are some like Dina Malar, Daily Thanthi, Puthiya Thalaimurai etc. None of them post box office figures on a regular basis and even when they do, they are not well-researched or accurate. @Ab207

PublicEnemy54321 (talk) 14:01, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

Pinkvilla cannot be taken as a proof for Valimai box office collection. Author of pinkvilla box office articles is Jatinder Singh who along with Vijay fan Mithun Raman runs a page called cinetrak which inflates Vijay box office numbers & gives bumper discount for Ajith , Rajini movies . There are proofs (tweets )from Jatinder Singh that he indeed is a part of Cinetrak . Pinkvilla, cinetrak numbers are exactly the same for Valimai Henceforth , pinkvilla's Box office numbers should never be taken into account as they are highly one sided .

Harihara1909196523 (talk) 15:02, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

Another example that Pinkvilla is extremely unreliable . Valimai Malaysian distributor has himself revealed that movie has done 4.1 MYR in the first 4 days in Malaysia . Karnataka box office portals have mentioned that movie has done around 7 crs in first 4 days . Whereas in Pinkvilla , Malaysia collection is mentioned as 2.5 Myr and Karnataka as 5 which proves their desperation to reduce Valimai BO numbers. Well the authors are Vijay fans Cinema babu & Jatinder Singh , this is expected from them . Same goes with TN Distributor ASP Sridhar has revealed that valimai has done 62.7 crs in 3 days in his twitter account . Mr.Jatinder singh has highly deflated the TN collections too in Pinkvilla .

Harihara1909196523 (talk) 15:10, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

Producers and distributors directly involved in the film are WP:PRIMARY sources. They are problematic since they may increase the collection for hype. Wikipedia's content is largely based on WP:SECONDARY sources, ie, published by people who are not directly related to the subject.

Jatinder Singh's 4-days estimate of 66.5 crore in TN is closer to other reliable estimates like 74 crore (61 crore net @18% GST) by Box Office India but Manobala's 109 crore is way off. -- Ab207 (talk) 15:41, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

I completely disagree with publicenemy54321 's opinion about Viswasam . There are other sources like Thanthi tv , DT next, Sacnik who have claimed Viswasam 200+ crs collection . Hence, cornering Ramesh bala is totally unfair . Moreover,it's a differece of 10 odd crores . If that's the case, same First post claims bigil collection as 285 crs , but Mr. Jatinder Singh ( Pink villa) made it 305 crs . Petta is written 220 crs in DT next , some claim it as 240+ Why didn't he pinpoint this ? If that's the case , it's Pinkvilla ( Jatinder Singh) who should be blacklisted before Ramesh .

Harihara1909196523 (talk) 16:32, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

First of all, Sacnilk is unreliable. If DT Next, Thanthi etc. have stated that Viswasam grossed 200 crore like you say, they are most likely quoting Ramesh Bala. Pinkvilla used to be unreliable. I have no idea about its reliability now. I just want to make it clear that I am not a fan of Vijay or Ajith. You have an agenda to push in favour of Ajith. I don't. @Harihara1909196523

PublicEnemy54321 (talk) 17:38, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

I completely disagree with @PublicEnemy54321. There is a greater agenda in Tamil Nadu Box Office figures. All have been funded very well to make actor vijay as number 1 irrespective of the real performance of his film in the box office. No matter any new film comes in Tamil Nadu, agenda from actor vijay's group is just to degrade that movie and ensure that their real numbers don't come in limelight. Years of hard work has been put in by actor vijay's team to make him top by giving gold coin to film industry trackers, Box Office portals, local cinema journalists. Here the major point to be taken is, if you accept any gift from a specific person would you boldly speak bad about that person or you will stay silent? This is the current scenario in Tamil Box Office, all works for the favour they get from actor vijay and his group. Voluntary negativity and propaganda has been said in open by many distributors as well as theater owners. Vijays's group can never digest any other star growing. They create fake articles like Pinkvilla by deploying unknown persons like Jatinder and they create fake Box Office portal like cinetrak, these are done to ensure actor vijay remains on top. But the sad reality is Rajinikanth followed by AjithKumar are the most successful Box Office and crowd pullers. If you take a simple thing into consideration previous vijay films where they announced ₹250,₹300, crore movie producers couldn't take any new movie, they are under lot of financial burden. To conclude my point, Ramesh & manobala are few of the genuine trackers in south who provide regular numbers. They have been doing it for several years. They are being punished in reputed news from local media to national media for 4 to 5 years not like days or months. A coin has many sides, favouring just an actor like vijay won't create healthy environment and it is just a monopoly. As there are no comscores or any public reputed reporting, we are bound to follow and accept credible and trust worthy trackers like Manobala and Ramesh. MovieBuffIndia (talk) 16:53, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

Here few cannot digest the fact that a movie other than actor vijay starrer is making Box Office records. If the same numbers are reported for a vijay film. Nobody will raise dispute, such is the state of box office in Tamil Nadu. On what basis Wikipedia trusts pinkvilla and ignores local, national, media outlets? Pinkvilla is run by an agenda to promote vijay and degrade other actors. What trust does the person named Jatinder has? Suddenly he started writing articles for pinkvilla. Jatinder is known as a member of Vijay mafia, he also runs a page called cinetrak. What authenticity does his numbers bring? If Wikipedia can allow pinkvilla reports why can't it allow local media like Thanthi TV, Samayam Tamil etc and National portals like India today, Deccan Herald, ndtv, bollywood life etc? All reporting Valimai has grossed 200 crore world wide. Never expected this kind of double standards from Wikipedia group. Either remove Box Office column from all actor films including vijay, or provide a fair chance to allow figures reported by major outlets. This is saddening as down the line vijay group will become monopoly by ensuring pinkvilla numbers are only allowed and they create numbers as per their wish. South trackers and south portals and national portals must be considered rather than bogus pinkvilla run by an agenda group. For any cinema growth their should be equal and fair competition. Simply making vijay as number 1 is not healthy which is also not true in ground reality. Box Office should be allowed with same ethics like all films. Not double standards for AjithKumar, Rajinikanth, etc. Please resolve this at the earliest to avoid any confusion. Purposefully reducing figures to make vijay as number 1 is highly disappointing.

200 crore sources Thanthi Tv Samayam Tamil India Today Bollywood Life So on.... MovieBuffIndia (talk) 07:59, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

200 crore figure

• According to Box Office India article published on 5 March (8 days), Valimai netted ₹77 crore in Tamil Nadu which is an equivalent of ₹93 crore gross @18% GST. However, ManobalaV claims it to be ₹140 crore. This deviation makes it clear that ManobalaV is publishing inflated numbers. India Today, Indian Express, and News18 are blindly regurgitate the same figure without their own research. -- Ab207 (talk) 13:37, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

Please do something about MovieBuffIndia. He is hell bent on inflating the film's box office. @Ab207

(PublicEnemy54321 (talk) 19:36, 6 March 2022 (UTC))

PublicEnemy54321, while we cannot stop them from presenting their arguments, any contested changes have to be made with WP:CONSENSUS. -- Ab207 (talk) 19:39, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

"What authenticity does pinkvilla provide? Remove pinkvilla and use Box Office India if you don't want to follow Ramesh Bala's figures and Manobala figures that is completely fine. But favouring one portal[Pinkvilla] for this film and multiple portals for all other films shows how neutral Wikipedia system is. Or else use range option. Not accepting any possible outcome clearly depicts something in it @Ab207.

We are very curious to know why this user @PublicEnemy54321 engages is non stop negative propaganda." MovieBuffIndia (talk) 20:51, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

MovieBuffIndia, actually estimates by Pinkvilla and Box Office India are very close. Valimai's Day 1 TN gross as per Pinkvilla is 28 crore while as per Box Office India its 25 crore net or ~30 crore gross. But Manobala's 36 crore is much higher.

For 4 days, Manobala said its 159 crore but Ormax Media said its 100 crore which again is closer to Pinkvilla's 110 crore.

So Pinkvilla's numbers are pretty much inline with other reliable estimates but ManobalaV seems to be publishing inflated figures. But the problem is after 1st week, no one has published WW gross except Manobala and someone called Trinath which we are currently displaying. So its better to wait until we have a clearer picture with more sources, and range can be mentioned if they differ. There is WP:NODEADLINE to catch. -- Ab207 (talk) 21:17, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

Sadly, hardcore Ajith Kumar lovers such as MovieBuffIndia can't wait. They don't care if the box office is actual or inflated. All they want to do is catch up with the other guy's box office and make sure Ajith stays relevant in the so-called "competition".Ab207

(PublicEnemy54321 (talk) 21:38, 6 March 2022 (UTC))

    Few simple straight forward questions @Ab207

Question 1: BOI is reputed source, it has mentioned Valimai as all time highest grossing film of Tamil Nadu on Day 1 after Rajinikanth's Annaatthe. Where as pinkvilla, mentioned Valimai has number 2 film after Vijay's Sarkar. What is the reason. Please be straight forward and neutral.

Question 2: BOI 's ₹25 crore nett transforms to rough ₹30 crore gross, where as pinkvilla says 28? What is the reason?

Question 3: In which way pinkvilla is more authentic than BOI to display a opening day figure of ₹2 crore less in Wikipedia? For one day if pinkvilla can reduce 2 crore for 10 days how much? So, you support neutrality or downplay?

For all other direct sources, you mentioned non primary source required. Where as for pinkvilla no questions asked.

Display only Box Office India figure and remove pinkvilla if you support neutral stand point.

Pinkvilla is never known for Box Office and they were not providing regularly till last few months. Suddenly they deployed a person called Jatinder, who has the history of DEGRADING all actors on Twitter and works for Vijay propaganda group. He sits some where in north and says Box Office collection of Tamil Nadu and all must believe. He is NOT a credible source. He provides the figure, why should public be fooled by his agenda.

And lastly people check Wikipedia on daily basis to know the collection of a film, in this modern day world if you say we should wait till film's run is completed for updating Box Office figures then it doesn't really make sense. Be neutral and provide RANGE option if you are not satisfied with a figure, rather than simply supporting downplaying portals.

And finally why you want to revert all user edits and stick only to pinkvilla? All others with proper sources with valid articles should be allowed if neutrality is the criterion not agenda.

RESOLVE this matter at the earliest by providing a neutral solution for all parties involved. Don't just revert all edits and stick with downplaying portal. Fair chance with fair numbers should be allowed. Let public decide which one is true. Rather than you making public to think that pinkvilla is real and all others are not true. MovieBuffIndia (talk) 07:09, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

MovieBuffIndia, firstly, all Box office figures published in India are only estimates because they is no official tracking. Hence, most sources are bound to deviate a more or less. For the same reason, we always use {{Estimate}} before the gross in Infobox as per consensus at the Indian Cinema Task Force.

Secondly, there is no bias towards Pinkvilla or any other source but there is strong evidence that Manobala is publishing inflated figures. Unlike Jatinder Singh whose articles are subject to the editorial board of Pinkvilla, Manobala's twitter posts are not answerable to anyone and can get away with publishing whatever figures he wants. This is the reason why we are trying to avoid Manobala's figures. I have been unable to find any other reliable box office figures of Valimai after week 1. But if Box Office India's estimates are anything to go by, Manobala's figures are way off.

Lastly, Wikipedia is WP:NOTNEWS, we write articles not just today but for the next ten years. Because the daily figures of this film are contested, I feel we'll get a clearer picture of how much the film has grossed once the film ends its run. Then we can decide on how to present the data we have on hand. -- Ab207 (talk) 07:42, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

I asked straight forward questions. But you are providing answers in a different way. BOI earned its reputation by providing numbers for more than a decade unlike pinkvilla who came out of nowhere for Box Office. Until you get a proper why support downplaying portals? As you yourself say that figures cannot be tracked how come jatinder Singh tracks tamil nadu theatrical collection by sitting in north? And lastly, you are saying pinkvilla has editorial board. What happened to the editorial boards of dozen established media outlets which has been running for more than 2-3 decades which uses Manobala and Ramesh Bala figures? Nobody in entire India would have a different thoughts before publishing these two people figures? As per your logic, print media editorial boards or their sources are unreliable except pinkvilla. I strongly disagree with pinkvilla figures or its editorial boards. Until you get a proper source for Tamil Nadu theatrical collection be fair with neutral stand point. Once you get a proper source you make changes as Wikipedia is always open for editing which you are aware. As of now, allow all portals and don't stick with pinkvilla alone. Please end this here. Once film's run is over, you will get a clear picture with more sources to ensure that people for next 10 years know it.@Ab207

MovieBuffIndia (talk) 08:03, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

MovieBuffIndia, frankly, I'd like the box office to be accurate and up to date. But right now, only Manobala's figures are available. So displaying only his figure in the infobox, especially when its at complete odds with Box Office India's estimate in Tamil Nadu (which we both agree to be reliable) is contrary to neutral point of view. -- Ab207 (talk) 08:14, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

I appreciate your fairness @Ab207.

As you know BOI doesn't provide regular or gross figures for TN movies, let use the media outlets with fair chance.

As their figures are only available, for time being you can use range option with estimates from x number to 200 crore if you disagree with 200 crore collection. But not displaying 200 crore is not an option.

Thanks for resolving.

MovieBuffIndia (talk) 08:21, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for resolving what? You want the highest numbers for the film as you are an ardent fan of Ajith. Are you not intelligent enough to understand that reliable sources like Box Office India have not provided worldwide gross for this film yet. Wait for a final figure. There is no hurry. Please get it into your head that Manobala and Ramesh Bala cannot exactly be called reliable and stop this disruptive editing. If you have complaints with regards to box office figures of other films, raise it on the talk pages of those films.@MovieBuffIndia

(PublicEnemy54321 (talk) 11:00, 7 March 2022 (UTC))

The user @PublicEnemy54321 doesn't engage in healthy conversation and the tonality seems to trigger. And the user works on an agenda to blatantly deny all sources. On top of it, the user did not provide any answers to valid questions put forth in public. Engages in disruptive editing. Did not support neutrality. Purposefully downplaying figures and keeps dragging an issue without finding a a feasible and possible solution.

MovieBuffIndia (talk) 11:12, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Why are you triggered when I say this? Because you are actually a fan of Ajith? I denied all sources citing the Balas (Ramesh and Mano) since they are not reliable. You apparently replace the reliable sources with the unreliable ones and act like you are doing the right thing. All the answers for your questions have been given by me and Ab207 above. If you still can't understand, then I have no idea what is wrong with you. You acting neutral is pointless because it's pretty obvious from your behaviour what you are. MovieBuffIndia

Edit: This person is so insecure that he is now undoing my comments on this talk page. MovieBuffIndia. I would like to draw the attention of everyone to this issue. Kailash29792 Tayi Arajakate Arjayay Ravensfire Sid95Q Fylindfotberserk Bollyjeff

(PublicEnemy54321 (talk) 11:50, 7 March 2022 (UTC))

MovieBuffIndia, you cannot remove other's comments from the talk page without a valid reason, see WP:TALKO. Also, I request both of you stop reverting each other, and arrive at a consensus on how to present box office figures. -- Ab207 (talk) 12:33, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Hi All, apologies. It was done by mistake. Never removed any talk page comments till now. Instead of doing undo on an article page, this popped up. @Ab207.

Range is the best possible solution as of now @Ab207. There are 25 plus established articles presenting 200 crore collection, all would have their own editorial team. We can't say they simply blindly published it. We must respect them. Boi figure is trust worthy and everybody agrees to it. Pinkvilla figures cannot be taken into consideration if Ramesh Bala's and Manobala's figures are not allowed. Present the fact that valimai is the number 1 grosser of all time in Tamil Nadu[Boi states it]. And it has grossed 200 crore. Because Boi doesn't provide gross figure of Tamil films. You use other sources as starting range and media outlets as closing rage. Let us leave it to the public opinion.

12:45, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

The problem with presenting a range here is that there is a vast variation in figures. Pinkvilla says 140 cr and people like Manobala say 200+ cr. It isn't ideal to provide a 140-200 cr range. Its obvious that the other figure is inflated. The whole reason I started the discussion was to bring to everyone's attention that sources that cite Manobala and Ramesh Bala should not be treated as reliable. If we just add that figure right back, that defeats the whole point of the discussion. I will stop reverting. But I would like to know everyone's opinion on this. If we decide to keep Manobala on, then every future film will have inflated numbers and ranges like 150-250, 200-300 etc. Please do something about MovieBuffIndia. Their account has no intention of giving any meaningful contribution to Wikipedia and is created with the sole purpose of inflating the numbers of this film. Ab207 Kailash29792 Tayi Arajakate Arjayay Ravensfire Sid95Q Fylindfotberserk Bollyjeff

(PublicEnemy54321 (talk) 12:46, 7 March 2022 (UTC))

Ramesh Bala and Manobala have been providing figures for more than 5 years and they have been published in articles which are even 5 year old. When it comes to Tamil Cinema they are reliable. If your opinion varies from it then it is completely fine. But it doesn't necessarily mean that they should be ignored for Jatinder Singh figure. Before 3-4 months you will not find even single article written by Jatinder Singh in pinkvilla or any other portal. What credibility he brings to provide Box Office figures of Tamil Nadu. People who are active on Twitter know the actual agenda spread by Jatinder Singh over last few years. Downplaying all actor figures except Vijay is his person goal. He is known for the same. Established media outlets don't just randomly take any verified person for displaying Box Office figures. Simply denying these two people figures and allowing jatinder's own figure in itself a clear sign of non naturalistic approach. Either stand with BOI alone or allow all people figures. Drawing line stating pinkvilla ₹140 crore is completely bogus and why should everyone believe in it. Opening day numbers are close to ₹60 crore and he downplayed it. In Tamil Nadu he wants only Vijay to be topper. Where as Box Office India itself mentioned Ajith Film surpassed it. As per jatinder Sarkar movie is still number 1. But Boi states Annaatthe surpassed and Valimai has overtaken that too. This simple fact brings enough evidence to the table to believe he purposely down plays all. Actor.

MovieBuffIndia (talk) 13:16, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

MovieBuffIndia, that has already been explained above by Ab207. Pinkvilla's numbers are still way more closer to BOI than Manobala. Why are you acting ignorant?

(PublicEnemy54321 (talk) 13:27, 7 March 2022 (UTC))

Actually the debate here is, why he downplays Valimai collection when compared to Boi? That too by a big margin of 2 core in a day from a single state Tamil Nadu? How much deductions would he had given for all other territories for each day? Ramesh Bala said 1 week ₹165 crore but jatinder says 11 days 140 crore now who does this with agenda? Even if you go by Boi trend and actual ground reality of the movie, nobody will believe 140 figure in 11 days. Now say who is acting ignorant. Don't simply say pinkvilla, say as Jatinder Singh. Because he has been deployed to write in last 2-3 months by specific group. Credibility of Jatinder Singh is a very big question mark.

MovieBuffIndia (talk) 13:37, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

@PublicEnemy54321 and MovieBuffIndia: Please stop edit warring. Let's wait for the others to chip and find a solution for this. If you disagree with the current version, simply tag it {{dubious}} or {{POV}} and leave it. Nobody is going to die if inaccurate numbers are displayed for some time. Just be patient, there will be a solution for everything. -- Ab207 (talk) 15:00, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

I completely agree with you. And I'm open for a amicable solution which stands neutral and clearly satisfies all parties involved. Thank you. MovieBuffIndia (talk) 15:41, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Working solution

• As I explained earlier, Manobala's figures are highly inflated and cannot be considered reliable on its own. However, Because his ₹202.64 crore is published in various reliable sources, perhaps its worthy of inclusion with attribution.

In Box office section, we write "According to trade analyst Manobala Vijayabalan, the film has collected.. and "According to Jatinder Singh of Pinkvilla..." and so on. Since these figures are for different time periods, and are not final figures, we will avoid it in the infobox for the time being, instead display "See Box office". Once the final figures are published, we can mention range by looking at figures from different sources. @PublicEnemy54321 and MovieBuffIndia:, please let me known if this solution is accepatable to you both. -- Ab207 (talk) 16:19, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

I agree to this. Ab207 MovieBuffIndia

(PublicEnemy54321 (talk) 16:25, 7 March 2022 (UTC))

I agree to this solution, let me prepare Box Office section by including all. Open for further modification and necessary changes after publishing. MovieBuffIndia (talk) 16:44, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Thank you PublicEnemy54321 and MovieBuffIndia for reaching at a solution. As proposed above, I have made changes in this edit. I have attributed all the figures, so that readers can decide themselves whether to trust Jatinder Singh or Manobala. Since the page is now extended confirmed protected due to heavy edit warring, you can ping me or post an edit request to make any further changes with consensus. Cheers -- Ab207 (talk) 17:35, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Master 300 crore figure

A portal named news minute in a single sentence mentioned master grossed over 300 crore without doing any research in a article which is about vijays next film and no way relevant to actual Box Office, has been used as source for mentioning ₹300 crore on Master Wikipedia article. If Wikipedia believes in fair reporting, then for Valimai too mention Box Office India figure as well as other national media outlet figures. Double standards of allowing only pinkvilla is a clear monopoly. Remove pinkvilla, use Box Office India and other outlets figures with range option like in master article. Let public know the truth. Hiding a side of a coin is not considered neutral. MovieBuffIndia (talk) 16:11, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

Valimai Box office Figures are inflated. The Film merely grossed 160crores worldwide NasDasilva (talk) 01:53, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

Box office report correctly

Manobala vidhyabalan post the 1week of collection 193 croes and Ramesh bala 165 croes what was the final collection Haririo07 (talk) 18:11, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

Fair chance denied for all actors' Box Office figures except Vijay in Tamil Cinema.

There has been a clear effort to purposely make an article published from local as well as national media unreliable. Making others believe that pinkvilla reports are reliable and all others are unreliable. Pinkvilla has recently started publishing Box Office reports by employing a person named Jatinder who runs a twitter page called cinetrak and that cinetrak website doesn't work too. Everyone in the industry knows vijay runs a mafia with trackers by giving them Gold coin, thus ensuring he remains on top which is not the reality. Why suddenly, national portals and local media outlets became unreliable and only pinkvilla is reliable? Either provide fair chance to allow local and national media outlet articles or change Box Office figures of all movies as per single website source BOI. Double standards show a clear sign that all actors except Vijay must be pulled down. MovieBuffIndia (talk) 08:26, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

Box office collection

Valimai entered 200cr worldwide There s a bunch of proofs Please edit from 165 to 200 Else why u guys locked the page 103.148.20.68 (talk) 11:55, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

Agenda driven targeted efforts to pull down actor Ajith Kumar

More than 10 reputed media outlets reported Valimai gross above ₹200 crore. But here few who doesn't want actor Ajith Kumar to grow involve in agenda driven vandalism to show public that movie is not running well, which is not the reality. As per them all media outlets are dumb except newly born pinkvilla Box Office collection written by notorious vijay group person named Jatinder. If you don't want to follow those media outlets, then follow a single Box Office India website for all movies. Don't play double standards by allowing pinkvilla to degrade and denying other national portals. MovieBuffIndia (talk) 20:27, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

Yes, exactly. One specific actor's paid trolls are doing active targeted harassing campaign against this movie. Vikykam (talk) 05:17, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

CREDIBILITY of Jatinder Singh?

Question 1: BOI is reputed source, it has mentioned Valimai as all time highest grossing film of Tamil Nadu on Day 1 after Rajinikanth's Annaatthe. Where as jatinder pinkvilla, mentioned Valimai has number 2 film after Vijay's Sarkar. What is the reason. Please be straight forward and neutral.

Question 2: BOI 's ₹25 crore nett transforms to rough ₹30 crore gross, where as Jatinder pinkvilla says 28? What is the reason?

Question 3: In which way jatinder pinkvilla is more authentic than BOI to display a opening day figure of ₹2 crore less in Wikipedia? For one day if pinkvilla can reduce 2 crore from a single state, how much from all regions for 10 days? So, you support neutrality or downplay?

Question 4: Before 3 months no articles written by Jatinder for Pinkvilla or any other portal. What credibility does he provide to make Boi, Ramesh Bala, Manobala, national media editorial team, local media editorial team unreliable?

Question 5: If his numbers will only be taken for consideration, why not other's number? He writes number as per his wish and publishes article. As per Wikipedia, all other print media and news media numbers are not reliable.

People who are active on Twitter know the actual agenda spread by Jatinder Singh over last few years. Downplaying all actor figures except Vijay is his person goal. He is known for the same. Established media outlets don't just randomly take any verified person for displaying Box Office figures. Simply denying these two people figures and allowing jatinder's own figure in itself a clear sign of non neutralistic approach. MovieBuffIndia (talk) 13:50, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Avoid Jatinder Singh since Pinkvilla is not a complete RS. Kailash29792 (talk) 10:02, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

@Kailash29792: I think every source should be taken with a pinch of salt. See the mess "reliable sources" made at Maharshi and Kabali. However, in this case, Pinkvilla's estimates are much closer to Box office India and Ormax Media than Manobala. Eg. Maobala's Day 1 TN figure is 36 crore, if 2 crore difference is a concern, then the deviation is three times higher in case of Manobala. -- Ab207 (talk) 11:19, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Yes, completely agree with Kailash29792. Pinkvilla in itself is not a RS. It applies same to their authors for Box Office. As of now only one person named Jatinder writes Box Office figures. Even Google doesn't take them under news category as they don't follow general practices. For Jatinder to be considered reliable on his own, he must be in box office article writing field for at least 2-3 years. Just by publishing Box Office figures for two months in a non RS site like Pinkvilla should not be given merit. It is too early. Also, his credibility is a big question mark, in Twitter he defames each and every actor except Vijay on a regular basis over the years. There are plenty of proofs for it. He is known to downplay other actor figures. He works for his master with an agenda to degrade others and make actor vijay number one. At the same time, he wasn't getting the necessary publicity with Twitter alone, and his master's agenda was not getting wider reach. This pinkvilla article writing is a step to include his figures in Wikipedia and get recognized, this is his main aim. We must understand the ideology behind sudden Box Office pinkvilla figures. If pinkvilla really wanted to venture into Box Office field, they must have prepared their portal with box office frame work like BOI or Bollywood Hungama. This also is a clear indication of website publicity without doing ground work. Another point to be noted is, editorial board of pinkvilla is known for publishing many gossips and paid articles with an agenda. Hence I further vote to not include pinkvilla for Box Office figures. Tayi Arajakate

MovieBuffIndia (talk) 16:34, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

@Kailash29792 and MovieBuffIndia: The same "biased source" argument can be used to weed out remove Manobala's figures also. At least in the case of Valimai, we have clear evidence that the Manobala's figures are deviating by a wider margin when compared to Pinkvilla (vis-a-vis BOI). Therefore, removing Pinkvilla figures alone would be a contrary to WP:NPOV. Given there's already an agreement to display both sources per WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV, backtracking on that after spending hours on discussion both at ICTF and here seems out of principle to me. -- Ab207 (talk) 16:50, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

As more and more users started voicing out against Pinkvilla or its credibility, we had to share the option. Removing or keeping Ramesh Bala and Manobala, & other trade analysts' figures is mainly dependent on media outlets which publish their figures. Unlike a non RS pinkvilla which publishes numbers on their own without doing ground work on building a BO frame work on their website. Just felt this could have also been done for website publicity, or fame or widening an agenda or increasing back links, or for traffic.

And lastly, For Valimai also we accepted your solution Ab207 and still appreciate your healthy conversation and time.

Kailash29792

MovieBuffIndia (talk) 17:27, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Another point to be presented,

Jatinder Singh does NOT know to speak, read, write, understand Tamil language. He is NOT part of the trade. He is NOT in tamilnadu. People know that he does NOT even watch these films.

On what criteria or basis he publishes the number of Tamil film for people to believe him?

How can he get tamil nadu Box Office collection by sitting in North?

All know that Taran Adarsh is a leading trade analyst in India with decade of box office experience and tracking, but he never shared Tamilnadu Box Office collection of a Tamil Film. Because the fact is he himself cannot track with his sources.

Is Jatinder Singh greater than Taran with Tamil Nadu sources?

If you look at the history of Jatinder Singh, you would have surely oberserved that he never published Box Office figure FIRST for any Tamil film.

The fact is trade analysts come up with a figure first on Twitter, later he will add extra to that figure and publish for actor Vijay film and reduce greatly for other actors. Basically the source he has is ONLY Twitter. He nicely takes from Twitter and publish as per his wish. This is the bitter TRUTH.

Normally Tamil Nadu Box Office is a complicated thing, only trade analysts sitting in Tamil Nadu are able to calculate and gather from large number of distributors and producers and exhibitors. Without being part of the industry, you can never come up with figure in TamilNadu expecially Tamil film.

Industry people are in touch with trade analysts like Ramesh Bala and Manobala. Even Sunpictures CEO, Valimai producer Boney Kapoor, and many others in actual trade are following these two people in Twitter. You can check the same too.

This is not Overseas to say rentrak figure as it is available with proper tracking.

Nobody in the actual trade know Jatinder Singh. Even in Wikipedia articles, no Box Office source would have mentioned Jatinder Singh before 2 months. What is the reason for this sudden favour, sudden trust, sudden credibility?

A normal Tamil community person reading the wiki article [as per Jatinder Singh] will obviously ask all the above questions.

The possible answer we get from Wikipedia community for everything about him is, he publishes number close to Box Office India, that too less for all actors. He basically does not have any source, all he does is takes number from Twitter because that's what he knows. He was never part of trade.

Also,

If you scroll to the bottom of this Times of India stand alone article which was published on next day early morning of Valimai release, It mentioned 36 crore from Tamil Nadu alone. It is from their own source. Their editorial board takes responsibility.

Ab207 Kailash29792 Tayi Arajakate Arjayay Ravensfire Sid95Q Fylindfotberserk Bollyjeff

MovieBuffIndia (talk) 08:28, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 March 2022

Someone is falsely editing this page and Pinkvilla is spreading false news. VALIMAI is wel past the 200 Crore mark and this edit currently is falsely done with a false source attached as a reference. Please let me edit 2406:B400:A9:A601:186B:95F5:A60E:D228 (talk) 16:31, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. A solution is being worked on above to address this disparity Ab207 (talk) 16:35, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 March 2022

1. The box office collections of VALIMAI have Surpassed 200 Crore long back however one editor publishes a false article on his sight and attached that as a source to edit. Therefore the Box Office collection of VALIMAI should be edited.

2. Box office ₹140 crore[4]

to ₹202.64 crore

3. https://indianexpress.com/article/entertainment/bollywood/box-office-collection/ajith-film-valimai-bheemla-nayak-pawan-kalyan-box-office-collection-7803512/lite/

https://www.news18.com/amp/news/movies/valimai-box-office-collection-ajith-starrer-enters-rs-200-crore-club-in-just-10-days-4841771.html

https://www.indiatoday.in/amp/movies/regional-cinema/story/valimai-box-office-collection-day-11-ajith-s-film-remains-unstoppable-1921518-2022-03-07

I can go on with more sources but attach these and edit that part 2406:B400:A9:A601:186B:95F5:A60E:D228 (talk) 16:50, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit extended-protected}} template. Please discuss above. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:59, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 March 2022 - Disambiguation

Within Production -> Post-Production, the term "final mixing" is set as needing disambiguation. However, judging from the term its being used in and the lack of related articles in the disambiguation page, i'd say this is better off just not being blue-linked and left as regular text Aidan9382 _(talk) 21:59, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

 Done Thank you for pointing it out. -- Ab207 (talk) 11:27, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 March 2022

42.111.146.35 (talk) 14:20, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

300 crore

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:26, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 March 2022

1. The Box Office Collection of VALIMAI has gone past 220Crores long time ago

2. Box office See box office

3. The reliable sources are listed below

https://www.indiatoday.in/movies/regional-cinema/story/valimai-box-office-collection-day-12-ajith-film-shatters-box-office-records-1921965-2022-03-08

https://www.indiatvnews.com/entertainment/regional-cinema/valimai-box-office-day-9-ajith-kumar-starrer-weaves-magic-worldwide-earning-rs-200-crore-by-2nd-weekend-2022-03-05-762765

https://www.bollywoodlife.com/box-office/valimai-box-office-collection-day-9-ajith-kumar-huma-qureshi-starrer-enters-the-prestigious-200-crore-club-2021750/

https://www.filmibeat.com/tamil/news/2022/valimai-day-12-box-office-collection-ajith-s-actioner-continues-to-fare-decently-330886.html

https://www.indiatoday.in/movies/regional-cinema/story/valimai-box-office-collection-day-14-ajith-s-action-film-has-proved-to-be-a-winner-1923541-2022-03-10

https://www.indiatoday.in/movies/regional-cinema/story/valimai-box-office-collection-day-15-ajith-film-begins-week-3-on-a-positive-note-1924011-2022-03-11

https://indianexpress.com/article/entertainment/bollywood/box-office-collection/ajith-film-valimai-bheemla-nayak-pawan-kalyan-box-office-collection-7803512/ 2406:B400:A9:A601:CA:2A77:5932:EC70 (talk) 14:57, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

 Partly done: All of these are essentially Manobala's figures which I added with attribution at Valimai#Box_office. Infobox will be updated only after we have final figures from multiple "independent" sources per #Working solution. -- Ab207 (talk) 15:11, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

Why are Jatinder Singh's Pinkvilla box office reports not considered for Etharkkum Thunindhavan collections ? Why this bias only for Ajith . Here is an Independent article from Times of India claiming Valimai 200+ crores worldwide collection without any reference to Manobala Vijayan . Update this in Wikipedia

Here is the article link:-

https://m.timesofindia.com/entertainment/tamil/movies/box-office/valimai-box-office-collection-ajiths-film-enters-into-a-profitable-zone-mints-over-rs-200-crore-in-2-weeks/articleshow/90097338.cms Harihara1909196523 (talk) 12:04, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

In this Times of India article, it's also mentioned that #Valimai day 1 worldwide collections are more than 50 crores . Update this too .

https://m.timesofindia.com/entertainment/tamil/movies/box-office/valimai-box-office-collection-ajiths-film-enters-into-a-profitable-zone-mints-over-rs-200-crore-in-2-weeks/articleshow/90097338.cms

Harihara1909196523 (talk) 12:07, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

Untitled

Why are Pinkvilla articles by Jatinder Singh not considered for Etharkkum Thunindhavan collections ? Why this bias only for valimai ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Harihara1909196523 (talk • contribs) 11:44, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

Because few here want to ensure that this film doesn't come up in any list of films by ensuring that readers believe that there is a dispute. Clearly biased. MovieBuffIndia (talk) 03:31, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

Box office

240-250 crores Vishnubaiju (talk) 16:28, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

Final Figure ==

Kindly remove "See Box Office" and update final Box office collection.

Article reference for 224.80 crore

India Today

Note : Same Manobala Vijayabalan's figure with India Today 371 crore is used in RRR Wikipedia page for describing the film's 2 days total collection.

"After the two days of run, the total worldwide gross stood at ₹371 crore" MovieBuffIndia (talk) 16:09, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 March 2022

Kindly remove "See Box Office" and update final Box office collection.

Article reference for ₹224.80 crore

India Today

Note : Same Manobala Vijayabalan's figure with India Today 371 crore is used in RRR Wikipedia page for describing the film's 2 days total collection.

"After the two days of run, the total worldwide gross stood at ₹371 crore"

Even in Radhe Shyam and Bheemla Nayak Wikipedia page ManobalaV's number is used as reference, being quoted by times of India and India Today for final gross figure without changing any decimal places.

Ab207 Kailash29792 Tayi Arajakate Arjayay Ravensfire Sid95Q Fylindfotberserk Bollyjeff

MovieBuffIndia (talk) 03:39, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

 Already done. Snowmanonahoe (talk) 15:10, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 April 2022

Haririo07 (talk) 10:08, 1 April 2022 (UTC) please report the box offixe 237 croes

Report the box office Haririo07 (talk) 10:08, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. — DaxServer (t · m · c) 10:48, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Pre-planned Agenda Driven Efforts

Despite providing valid sources, moderators not updating the film's Final Box Office figure. I request others to resolve this. They have made a perception to public that unknown Jatinder Singh is the most reliable person ever in the trade circle only for this film. But the reality is none of Jatinder Singh numbers are used in Box Office of bollywood films or any other big films like RRR movie, because nobody knows him in the actual trade. This clearly indicates that they have used Jatinder Singh as a trump card to raise dispute in Valimai box office figure and ensure that film never gets any recognition. Looks like a pre-planned agenda driven efforts has been used to make this issue.

Either make it as semi protected or update the article with already provided sources. MovieBuffIndia (talk) 03:30, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 April 2022

Valimai (talk) 09:27, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/tamil/movies/box-office/ajiths-valimai-crosses-rs-200-crores-the-makers-confirm/articleshow/90412793.cms Valimai' reportedly grossed around Rs 225 crores worldwide, while the Tamil Nadu collection of the film is said to be more than Rs 100 crore. Several distributors and theater owners declared the film as a profitable venture for them, and the high-level expectation for the film made it achieve a huge mark with ease.

{edit extended-protected|Valimai|answered=no}} Kindly remove "See Box Office" and update final Box office collection.

Article reference for ₹224.80 crore

India Today

please edit request thank you

 Already done This is covered in the article and infobox. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:22, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

Boney Kapoors official box office figure

Since boney Kapoor has announced 200 crores collection mention the collection as 200 crores 124.123.106.200 (talk) 17:00, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

Double Standards

The source which has been used in RRR wiki article for daily BO update actually copies from a trade analyst.

Day 17 - ₹1029 crore Manobala's tweet : https://twitter.com/ManobalaV/status/1513393027108118529 Samayam article : https://telugu.samayam.com/telugu-movies/cinema-news/rajamouli-rrr-17-days-collection-report-here/articleshow/90775979.cms

Day 16 - ₹1003 crore Manobala's tweet : https://twitter.com/ManobalaV/status/1513067836733734912 Samayam article : https://telugu.samayam.com/telugu-movies/cinema-news/rajamouli-rrr-entered-in-1000-crores-club/articleshow/90759632.cms

In both the above scenarios one can check the tweet timing as well as article timing to know the reality of who published the box office number first.

But here people would say blindly that Manobala Vijayabalan figures are wrong when the article mentions his name. If the article uses copies his number without mentioning his name then nobody will have any objection.

This is not the first instance there are many examples of Radhe Shyam and Bheemla Nayak figures of Manobala used by Times of India on daily without mentioning his name in the article which was used in respective wiki articles for BO update.

The problem here with few users seems to be not with number but with the name. MovieBuffIndia (talk) 20:21, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 April 2022

Update Box Office.

Final collection - ₹ 232.80 crore.

Reference - https://www.deccanherald.com/entertainment/entertainment-news/valimai-closing-collection-ajith-kumar-starrer-emerges-as-a-commercial-success-1099070.html

There is an extended efforts from few wiki users to portray that film is failure, but reality is different. Movie was a commercially successful one.

Update with provided source or remove extended protection or accept that few biased users only own Wikipedia. MovieBuffIndia (talk) 20:29, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit extended-protected}} template. WP:ICTF thinks we should not source from Manobala — DaxServer (t · m · c) 23:23, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 April 2022 (2)

Box office collection revised by Manobala Vijayabalan. Worldwide collections for Valimai is 232.80 crores. Source "https://www.deccanherald.com/entertainment/entertainment-news/valimai-closing-collection-ajith-kumar-starrer-emerges-as-a-commercial-success-1099070.html" 2001:D08:C3:3B32:6550:8BA6:4E5A:47DC (talk) 20:34, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit extended-protected}} template. Duplicate request as above — DaxServer (t · m · c) 23:24, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 May 2022

Valimai

Box office collection revised by Times of india . Worldwide collections for Valimai is 234 crores. Source : https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/tamil/movies/box-office/valimai-lifetime-box-office-collection-this-ajith-starrer-film-mints-rs-234-crore-turns-the-9th-highest-grosser-film-in-tamil-nadu/articleshow/90734046.cms

Pinkvalla not Reliable Sources, Kindly Remove Pinkvalla Collection Updated for Timesofindia Collection 234Cr

 Not done for now: This is a contentious edit, or this has already been discussed, so you'll need to discuss first with other editors. If there is an existing discussion on the talk page please contribute to that section. If there is no existing discussion you may explain why this edit should be made in this section, or start a new section on this talk page. Pinvilla is reliable per WP:ICTFSOURCES Ab207 (talk) 06:20, 18 June 2022 (UTC)