Talk:United Kingdom Space Command

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Text and/or other creative content from this version of Royal Air Force was copied or moved into United Kingdom Space Command with this edit on 23 June 2021. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

On 6 July 2021, it was proposed that this article be moved to UK Space Command. The result of the discussion was not moved.

Linkage to Chief of the Air Staff

I have just rolled back, partially, this edit by Gaia Octavia Agrippa. UK Space Command "sits" in the organizational hierarchy of the British Armed Forces under the Chief of the Air Staff; there should be no thought whatsoever of removing all mention of UK Space Command from the Royal Air Force page. Buckshot06 (talk) 07:10, 24 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 6 July 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Per discussion and MOS:ACROTITLE. (non-admin closure) Shibbolethink ^(♔ ^♕) 14:25, 14 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

United Kingdom Space Command → UK Space Command – "UK Space Command" is clearly the common name, having over 11,000 ghits -Wikipedia, per about 1,400 for "United Kingdom Space Command". This is also the format most often used on UK govt websites, such as https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-space-command . BilCat (talk) 19:25, 6 July 2021 (UTC) I closed but then reverted close per request on my talk page for more discussion, so now… — Relisting. В²C ☎ 21:06, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose In this case changing from United Kingdom to UK does not enhance recognizability (the reason for COMMONNAME). Per WP:TITLEFORMAT "Abbreviations and acronyms are often ambiguous and thus should be avoided unless the subject is known primarily by its abbreviation and that abbreviation is primarily associated with the subject." A user is likely to recognize UK or United Kingdom equally well rendering this a non-issue in this case. A quick google search for me brings up 9,390 results for "UK Space Command" and 2,130 results for "United Kingdom Space Command," (to contrast I get 368,000 results for "US Space Command" and 81,300 results for "United States Space Command" however I do not belive that WPCOMMONNAME is an issue at that article). I am uncertain that this is enough to establish common name since UK Space Command could very well be used as a shortened version in article titles after United Kingdom Space Command is first mentioned in articles. There is also some internal inconsistency on similarly titled pages on Wikipedia, as we have UK Space Agency but United Kingdom Special Forces. The decision of UK or United Kingdom in article titles probably is something that should be standardized across the board, rather than piecemeal for individual articles.Garuda28 (talk) 20:53, 6 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Expanding abbreviations is usually the best idea. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:35, 7 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support There is guidance under WP:CRITERIA, and therein under Naturalness we can see we should prefer the name that people search for. Here's some evidence. UK Space Command is orders of magnitude the more common search term. Chumpih. (talk) 14:01, 8 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
- As is UK instead of United Kingdom itself! And USA instead of United States. And RAF instead of Royal Air Force. These are not hard and fast rules. Generally on Wikipedia we have always preferred abbreviations to be expanded, common name or no. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:11, 8 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  - Is "we have always preferred abbreviations to be expanded, common name or no" in accordance with this bit of the MOS? Chumpih. (talk) 17:31, 8 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    - Which has absolutely nothing to do with article titles! It deals with content only. This is the guideline you actually want. In general, if readers somewhat familiar with the subject are likely to only recognise the name by its acronym, then the acronym should be used as a title. [italics mine] No, clearly doesn't apply. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:44, 9 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      - Thanks. Interesting: under that guideline it talks about "African Journal of AIDS Research", as opposed to "African Journal of Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome Research". Chumpih. (talk) 20:37, 9 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
        In that case, not even the head article (HIV/AIDS) has the acronym expanded, though. Rublov (talk) 20:50, 9 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
        The contradiction is blatant. Perhaps initialisms in titles are indeed OK? Chumpih. (talk) 22:36, 9 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
        There is no contradiction whatsoever. AIDS is pretty much exclusively known by that acronym and not by its full title. The United Kingdom, on the other hand, is not pretty much exclusively known as the UK. UK Space Command is an abbreviation of the full title. African Journal of AIDS Research is the actual title of the publication. No contradictions. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:26, 13 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
        But even the UK Government refers to this as "UK space command". Evidence. As already shown, it's the common search term so Naturalness is satisfied. Is there evidence that it's commonly called "United Kingdom Space Command"? Chumpih. (talk) 21:17, 13 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
        Would that be the same as almost everyone referring to the Royal Air Force as the RAF or the United States Air Force as the USAF? Yet we don't use those abbreviations for our article titles. Because, as I said, in an encyclopaedia it is almost always better to expand abbreviations, with the exception of some very well-known acronyms, usually those actually pronounced as words (AIDS, NATO, Laser, etc). -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:29, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
        So there is no evidence to suggest that it's commonly called "United Kingdom Space Command". Understood. Chumpih. (talk) 10:54, 14 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
We should aim for consistency with UK Border Agency, UKCA marking, UK Carrier Strike Group, UK Athletics, UK Wolf Conservation Trust, UK Visas and Immigration, etc. etc. etc. There are a large number. Chumpih. (talk) 06:17, 21 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Not a lot in it, but I think in the extended discussion above the point is well discussed and well made. There is certainly no clear advantage in going to the shorter form. Andrewa (talk) 20:16, 13 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.