Talk:Unidentified flag from the Kingdom of Benin

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Renaming page

The title of this page, "Flag of the Kingdom of Benin", can be very misleading, as there's no indication that this flag was used in any official form by the Kingdom of Benin. As such, I have renamed this page to "West African flag", the name used by the National Maritime Museum where it is kept. DiegoAma (talk) 04:29, 1 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Although this was done in good faith, and I think a lot of editors (myself included) agree that the previous one was misleading, I unfortunately don't think this title is any better. This title sounds like the article is broadly about West African flags in general. I'll be undoing this rename and I'd prefer that the key "West African flag" does not link to this page (meaning that the redirect should be deleted). I'd recommend making a requested move if you'd like to get some third party voices on what we should title the article. Brendon the Wizard ✉️ ✨ 06:54, 5 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Could this page be renamed "Unidentified West African Flag" for accuracy? KohrVid (talk) 22:43, 20 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Flag of the Benin Empire?

Because this flag is generally so described the page has been titled 'Flag of the Benin Empire'; but it's clear from the account of its history given by the National Maritime Museum that it's really not a genuine imperial emblem at all, but an Itsekiri boat flag. A recent contributor left a comment objecting to the association of this flag with the Benin Empire and I deleted the comment - because it was just comment - but s/he had a point. It is misleading for wikipedia to mis-label this item in this way.RLamb (talk) 13:19, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It is a fact that it was found in the Benin Empire - that is pretty much all we know as facts about it. It may not be "the" "flag of the Benin Empire", but it was "a" flag brought "from the Benin Empire", that's a fact. Still, I included the adjective "putative" in the first line of the article. What we cannot do is create a new name for it ourselves (we = Wikipedia), like this user who tried renaming the article "Kennedy Flag" because he/she thinks it's the best name for the flag. It might as well be the best name in the universe, but one's not allowed to "create" names or anything on Wikipedia - Wikipedia's not the place for original content and research, period. We must stick to what the flag's called outside of Wikipedia - anyone who thinks it should not be called "Benin Empire flag" but rather something else ought to write and publish an article on it and then they could link to it in Wikipedia... MissionFix (talk) 17:51, 14 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

MissionFix, I can agree that my renaming may have been inappropriate, however to call the flag "Flag of the Benin Empire" is inadequate also.
I suggest that it be renamed as "Kennedy Flag" as, according to Greenwich Museum[1] "'Kennedy' is inscribed on a paper label attached to the rope."
Have you other suggestions how to correct the problem of the name? Cheers, IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 19:54, 14 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Burning

I reverted an edit removing the word 'accidentally' from before the word 'burnt' because the change in wording implies the town was deliberately fired as an act of war or revenge. While this seems perfectly possible, the changed edit was not supported by any citation, and my only historical source (copies of The Times newspaper online) suggests otherwise. 'The Times' reports 'a disastrous fire' which began in the 'King's portion of the city, where the expeditionary force is encamped', and spread so quickly the wounded had to be rapidly evacuated before the hospital went up in flames. (Times, March 6 1897, p.7) On the face of it this does sound accidental. On the other hand, reports in The Times would have come from British forces or journalists in the area, and are not to be treated as unbiased. To remove the 'accidentally' though would need another, more authoritative citation, perhaps from a well-researched history of the Expedition. This almost certainly exists, but I don't know of it.RLamb (talk) 10:28, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I just belatedly realized that the changed edit removed a word which was a quote from another source. If there is a dispute about the accidental nature of the fire it would need to be raised elsewhere, rather than just deleting the word; it would be bad practice to attribute a quote to the museum and then alter its wording.RLamb (talk) 10:37, 1 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Article renaming

This article ought to renamed as this flag is not the official "Flag of the Benin Empire".

My suggestion is it be renamed "Kennedy Flag" or "The Kennedy Flag".
I suggest so because according to Greenwich Museum[2] "'Kennedy' is inscribed on a paper label attached to the rope."

Agreements, disagreements and alternative names from other users is sought.

Cheers, IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 19:15, 19 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion you had above, where it's said that no source refers to it by the two-word name "Kennedy Flag", makes it clear that that cannot be used as the article title. One possible alternative is "Benin Empire flag", which with the third word in lowercase makes it clear that it is not an official flag, though even if the third word must be uppercase (by article precedent and/or should another flag emerge from that time and place, for example), it doesn't follow the pattern of "Flag of ..." used for national flags. Just a possibility – I endorse no change. SamuelRiv (talk) 03:46, 6 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

History section

The "History" section of this article appears to be an opinion more than anything. It has no sources. —General534 (talk) 20:52, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

National Maritime Museum

Weird article as a whole... but on top of this, it refers to the National Maritime Museum by 3 different names, none of which is correct: the Royal Museum, the Greenwich Museum, the Maritime Royal Museum. 86.153.104.60 (talk) 20:01, 8 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Change The title; flag of kingdom of benin is wrong

Hello the kingdom of benin doesn’t have an official flag as of the time of the expedition against benin the flag can be located in Royal Museums Greenwich ID Number AAA0557 with the title west African flag not benin kingdom flag I suggest it is either renamed west African flag or flag of the itsekiri people who are noted in the museum to be owners of the flag and also noted to be flag of itsekiri people by National Maritime Museum, London please give the rightful name its flag of itsekiri people not benin kingdom Repair it (talk) 12:23, 20 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

For more details on the flag ownership please visit https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/rmgc-object-557

And also visit https://edition.cnn.com/2016/04/25/sport/gallery/sea-flags-maritime-museum-london/index.html

There is no where in those articles it was called flag of benin kingdom rather it was called flag of itsekiri people Repair it (talk) 12:26, 20 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Rename

Can we rename this to Flag from the Kingdom of Benin? IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 15:59, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I renamed/moved the article to: Unidentified flag from the Kingdom of Benin. IOHANNVSVERVS (talk) 22:54, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]