Talk:Undocumented youth in the United States

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Undocumented youth in the United States article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Education Low‑importance

	Education portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Education, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of education and education-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EducationWikipedia:WikiProject EducationTemplate:WikiProject Educationeducation articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Law Low‑importance

	Law portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Law, an attempt at providing a comprehensive, standardised, pan-jurisdictional and up-to-date resource for the legal field and the subjects encompassed by it.LawWikipedia:WikiProject LawTemplate:WikiProject Lawlaw articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Sociology Low‑importance

	Society portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sociology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of sociology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SociologyWikipedia:WikiProject SociologyTemplate:WikiProject Sociologysociology articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

United States: Government Mid‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject U.S. Government (assessed as Mid-importance).

This article was the subject of an educational assignment in 2013 Q3. Further details were available on the "Education Program:Drake University/Global Youth Studies (Fall 2013)" page, which is now unavailable on the wiki.

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Escutiajose1982.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 04:32, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 31 January 2020 and 22 May 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Cocada2011.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 04:32, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Draft feedback

Hi Sean,

I enjoyed reading through your draft and think its a great work in progress. Have you thought about discussing how these youth come into the countries in which they are deemed to be undocumented? Are there resources that distinguish between how many entered without inspection vs. how many overstayed their visas? Keep up the good work!Camotero2013 (talk) 14:56, 4 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Moving towards first draft

Hi Sean.tyl.and! To get the draft ready for this Friday, I would plan on blocking out 2-3 hours to: Craft a lead paragraph (I fixed the formatting so you have the start of one). You need to expand on what it means to “learn to be undocumented.” What do peer-reviewed sources say about the psychological and social processes involved? What responses have youth made, such as “coming out” as undocumented? You can also seek verifiable sources to describe:

What are special issues faced by ‘’youth’’ because of immigration status?

Does Gonzales establish causality between “learning to be illegal” and dropping out?

What role does non-access to financial aid have in not continuing to college?

What about drivers’ licenses and obtaining employment?

Please incorporate information to answer Camotero’s feedback.

Where will you put in hyperlinks?

This article has a great deal of potential, but there is still a great deal of work to do. Keep going! Cheers!Prof.Vandegrift (talk) 19:17, 4 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Peer edit

Sean,

I think that this is a great topic to look at, but I do think that it is still very much a work in progress. I think there is much more that can be included on the page. More detail on the challenges that they face I think would be good. I think that most of the detail that you have us very general and could use more detail, but I think that this is a good start. Also, you could always add a picture. Dcole12 (talk) 22:10, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Draft feedback

Hi Sean.tyl.and. I've left some feedback for the current draft on your talk page. Gobōnobō ⁺ ^c 23:22, 11 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Purpose of Article

The purpose of this article is to distinguish the unique transitions into adulthood for undocumented youth. I have done significant research on this topic which distinguishes the work done on this topic versus the Undocumented students in the United States page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sean.tyl.and (talk • contribs) 02:27, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Why "youth" should not be so narrowly defined.

I have twice tried to update this article with the professional licensing opportunities that have opened up career paths for undocumented youth in the US and each time they've been removed. The last time an explanation was given akin to- youth are not eligible for professional licensing, because that is after attending law school, medical school, etc.

I disagree. While the age a youth is likely to complete graduate school and move on to professional licensing is mid to late 20's, the word "youth" is generally ambiguous and its definition therefore, is tied to its context.

Here, I'd argue the context is the page's audience, and the most valuable, and incidentally vulnerable, audience demographic is undocumented youth themselves. They've been told their whole lives they can't be doctors or doctors, and finally in 2014, there is a narrow exception where indeed they are eligible for licensure for professional careers in just one of fifty states. Having timely access to this information, here, could mean the difference between an undocumented youth choosing to surrender hope, or choosing instead to study hard and pursue higher education that ultimately culminates in a lawyer who fights to end oppression, or a doctor who saves lives. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Curtster3 (talk • contribs) 01:24, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed merge

I would like to propose merging this article with Undocumented students in the United States -- a similar article on an overlapping topic. This is a large and complex issue, and having two articles doesn't help explain the topic. Thoughts? -- phoebe / (talk to me) 22:10, 3 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nomination. Articles appear to have been started separately in good faith. Wikishovel (talk) 22:44, 3 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support Same topic, no sense having the same article in two places. Dream Focus 21:57, 14 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support, but the direction of the merge is unclear (one template suggests a merge to Undocumented immigrant students in the United States). My view is that the merge should be to Undocumented youth in the United States as it is the broader topic and would more accurately describe the scope of a merged page. That the immigrant students page is currently larger isn't a bar to the proposed merge direction. Klbrain (talk) 10:49, 8 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Merger complete. Klbrain (talk) 13:03, 28 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

misc references

from the history of the article, now cut:

^Perez, Zenen. "Removing Barriers to Higher Education for Undocumented Students." Scribd. Center for American Progress, 1 Dec. 2014. Web. 21 Apr. 2015. <http://www.scribd.com/doc/246479454/Removing-Barriers-to-Higher-Education-for-Undocumented-Students>.

"Undocumented Immigrants' State and Local Tax Contributions." The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP). The Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP), 16 Apr. 2015. Web. 21 Apr. 2015. <http://www.itep.org/immigration/>.

^Athanasiou, Joy. "Basic Facts About Undocumented Students." Together Colorado. Higher Education Access Alliance, 1 Jan. 2013. Web. 21 Apr. 2015. <http://www.togethercolorado.org/documents/BasicFactsAboutUndocumentedStudents.pdf>.

Visuals

Hi Sean, after reading the article I noticed that there wasn't a lot of visual content in this post. I would like to post visual context in the form of diagrams to show some statistics. I feel that including visuals allow for many different types of readers to really understand the content and be able to illustrate the article. In saying this do any other users have any thoughts or ideas before I post this to the main page? I will be getting the visuals from quality sources to ensure the credibility of this article to provide a good addition to the post! Some of the Cites that I will pull information from: http://www.pewhispanic.org/2018/09/14/facts-on-u-s-immigrants/ https://www.apa.org/topics/immigration/undocumented-video.aspx https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2018/02/13/who-daca-dreamers-and-how-many-here/333045002/

They are not "Undocumented students", they have ample documents on them

It is ridiculous to try to eliminate the word "illegal" and replace it with "undocumented". This article is in the Category:Illegal immigration to the United States and most articles do use "illegal immigrant" since its more encyclopedic. I don't see any discussion for this article getting its name changed to Undocumented youth either. I say change the name back and stop trying to eliminate the word "illegal" in the article when you don't have a word that makes sense to use instead. Dream Focus 06:54, 15 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you, but just try and change it in Wikipedia! (This article was written as part of a student project and is full of redundant content that is sometimes just wrong, as it doesn't even agree with the sources provided.) The same objection as you made in this article also apply to Illegal immigration and Illegal emigration (the latter is really bizarre, and I cleaned it up a bit, but it is kind of out of control; sorry, I digress.)--FeralOink (talk) 12:38, 2 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Slur?

The lede says ""the term "illegal" when applied to people is considered by some a slur"" This is an example of weasel wording, and does not belong in an encyclopedic article. "some people" believe almost anything about almost any topic. The citation reads as an opinion piece. If an op-ed is enough to substantiate this type of statement, why don't we say that "some people" view teaching the theory of evolution as an example of religious bigotry? It's ridiculous ofcourse.

Also, whether someone is offended by legal terminology is entirely irrelevant. The word undocumented is used a total of zero times in the US code. We can't have a rational discussion about what is appropriate to include in articles if we refuse to use the legally defined terms. Anything else is ambiguous, imprecise, and too open to interpretation. 2601:18F:4101:4830:2E:902E:E675:FD68 (talk)•

2601:18F:4101:4830:2E:902E:E675:FD68 (talk) 04:01, 13 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Disgraceful language

"Undocumented." This topic avoids use of the descriptive term "illegal immigrant" to obfuscate that the topic is about young illegal immigrants, due to political bias of editors that wish they were legal immigrants.

In its place is what I believe is a US centric euphemism for an illegal immigrant, an "undocumented" immigrant, whose purpose, as I repeat, is to obfuscate what the legal status of that immigrant is for all of the readers of this article because the editors want to misrepresent illegal immigrants as other than that. 63.155.55.168 (talk) 19:30, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki Education assignment: Global Poverty and Practice

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 16 January 2024 and 10 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Sunflower110902 (article contribs). Peer reviewers: McGSoc, Laylagoldberg19.

— Assignment last updated by McGSoc (talk) 00:51, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

UndocuAlly trainings

I plan to add in information regarding UndocuAlly trainings in areas of higher education. I plan to expand on this under the additional barriers sub-topic of the article because I feel that it will be a great way of showing how these barriers are being addressed in areas of higher education. Sunflower110902 (talk) 18:43, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki Education assignment: Reading Latine Literature

This article is currently the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 2 October 2024 and 10 December 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Latinolit (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Latinolit (talk) 14:38, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]