Talk:Uganda at the 1968 Summer Olympics/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: MrLinkinPark333 (talk · contribs) 18:19, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! Thought I review this one as I've reviewed two previous X countries at Y olympics before. Looks relatively short and easy to review. If you have any questions/concerns, feel free to ping me here in this review.

Lead/infobox

Source needed for Mukwanga being the flagbearer in infobox. - Removed Y
Source also needed for Uganda placing 36th in the medal rankings for infobox. - Added Y
"The 1968 Summer Olympics were Uganda's fourth entry into an Olympic Games." - true, but there's no mention of their appearance at the 1960 Olympics for the background section. If it's easier to state that 1968 was their fourth entry, then this needs to be added with a source in the background. - Added further down Y
"both achieved podium finishes, Rwabwogo winning bronze" this sounds like a comma splice. I think either the comma could be replaced with a colon or have their medals in a new sentence. - Fixed Y
"Amos Omolo was the most successful track and field athlete, winning both his heat and quarter-final" - same as the above point, but doesn't sound too bad. - RewordedY

Background

P1 Y

"despite still being a British colony at the time" - While I do see a mention of colony when the sporting body was introduced (1925), and that Uganda gained independence in 1962, I don't see Uganda Athletics saying it was a former British colony.Y

I thought I'd amended this, not sure what happened there. Uganda was actually a protectorate at the time. Fixed. Kosack (talk) 19:43, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

- "despite still being" doesn't sound neutral and "despite" is also a word to watch per editorializing. I suggest rephrasing this quoted part only.Y -Reworded
"recognised by the International Olympic Committee in February of the same year." - almost. IOC says January, not February.Y - Fixed
"competing under its own flag for the first time at the 1964 Summer Olympics." - not mentioned by Commonwealth. Extra source needed as it has the fully independence part.

Uganda would not have been able to use its own flag unless it gained independence from Britain so this would be covered by the ref I believe. Kosack (talk) 19:43, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Well, this source does not mention the 1964 Olympics at all. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 23:53, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Added. Kosack (talk) 10:15, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

- resolved at bottom section.[reply]

"and featured 5,516 athletes from 112 nations competing in 172 events" - I think this is too much detail, as the article is about Uganda and not every nation who competed.Y

The background section is just to provide a general overview of the competition. There are quite a few Olympic GAs that have this included. Kosack (talk) 19:43, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

As the next sentence "The 1968 Games were Uganda's fourth entry" connects Uganada with the other information, this is fine now. Originally I felt that this part was focusing on every single nation and not mentioning Uganda. But now the connection exists and serves a purpose. With one of my previous GA reviews of a X country at Y Olympics, I mentioned a similar sentence like this was too overly detail, and it got removed. Go figure! --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 21:08, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

P2

"Kenyan-born sprinter Amos Omolo and boxer Alex Odhiambo were the only members of Uganda's 11-man delegation who had previously competed at an Olympic Games" - Source needed to show the 11 competitors for Uganda in 1968.Y
- Also, although later sentences show that Omolo and Odhiambo did compete in 1964, there isn't a citation that shows none of the other 9 competitors in 1968 had competed from 1956-1964. Note: see below.Y

Added refs for these. Kosack (talk) 19:43, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

While the Uganda page at Sports Reference lists the number of competitors per Olympics, it doesn't have the individual names unless I click on a specific year. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 23:53, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Well the overview provides links to every Ugandan Olympic delegation, including refs for every year would be a bit unnecessary. Kosack (talk) 10:15, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"He stepped up a weight division to light-welterweight for the 1972 Games." - out of scope and more suitable for the 1972 Uganda article.Y

Fixed, that was just a typo, he switched for these Games not the subsequent ones. Kosack (talk) 19:43, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ahh okay. I didn't catch that. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 23:53, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Minor point: New Vision has Omolo as an athlete, and doesn't say he was a sprinter. Sports Reference also doesn't state it either.
Perhaps not explicitly but Sports Reference lists all of Omolo's events which were all sprint races so I wouldn't say there would be any confusion about what discipline he took part in. Kosack (talk) 19:43, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Per the new sources after "competed at an Olympic Games", "Kenyan-born sprinter Amos Omolo and boxer Alex Odhiambo" would need to be moved to their respective sentences about them as the new sources (Uganda at Olympics, Uganda at 1968 Olympics) don't have their names/sports/country of birth. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 23:53, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've moved the Kenyan cite further up, that's the only one that wouldn't be supported I think? Kosack (talk) 13:44, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Side note that won't effect review

Thought I'd give you a headsup as Olympic Reference will be closing by March 2020. So, you might want to archive any references from the website and any in the future. Hopefully, a new site with these stats are coming soon. See here. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 18:23, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Appreciated, I've been using that site quite a lot recently so it would be a shame for them to disappear. Kosack (talk) 19:57, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Athletics

P1 Y

"Uganda entered three athletes in athletics events at the 1972 Summer Olympics." - Extra source to show that three competitors competed in athletics. World Athletics citation only has Omolo. - Added Y
- Also, it's 1968 not 1972 - yes I saw you nominated 1972 as well ;) - Fixed Y
"entered that required qualifying, however he was eliminated after finishing ninth in his heat." - sounds like a comma splice. I think this part needs a minor tweak for grammar. - Reworded Y
Musa was 22nd in the 10,000 metres, not 21st according to Sports Reference. - Fixed Y

P2

"The remaining athlete, Amos Omolo, was the only track and field competitor with previous Olympic experience" - This could be removed as it's already stated in Background P2 plus not referenced here. - Removed Y
"He improved marginally on his time in the quarter-final, although this was wind assisted," - the "although this was wind assisted" sounds like a side-note and not neutral with "although". Y

I wouldn't say this was a side note as a wind assisted time in athletics is essentially rendered void outside of the race. Not to mention that the time would have set a new personal best for Omolo. Kosack (talk) 21:30, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What i mean with side note is that the way that part of the sentence is written, it sounds off. The main part that changes the sentence flow is "although". If the sentence was written to state he had an improved time with wind assistance while sounding netural, then it'd be fine. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 00:10, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The new revision sounds better. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 01:59, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

- Also not 100% verified that the lower case w means wind-assisted.Y

The W mark is a pretty standard term in athletics. I don't think there can be any confusion over what it stands for. Kosack (talk) 21:30, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I was looking for it in the Olympic glossary with the site. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 00:10, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"In the 400m, Omolo proved considerably stronger," - not neutral with "proved considerably stronger" - Reworded
- "setting a new personal best in the latter" - not verified by Sports Reference.Y

It is listed as his personal best on the site? Kosack (talk) 21:30, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I wrote that down as I didn't see it at first, then noticed personal bests at the top, not the table. I forgot to remove this part from the review. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 00:10, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"before finishing last in the event's final" - I suggested swapping last to eighth as Omolo's profile alone doesn't state there were 8 competitors in the final.

I've changed this one, although I would say it's splitting hairs somewhat given there are only eight lanes on a track, so it would be physically impossible to finish any lower. Kosack (talk) 21:30, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

True, but I was going by what the source said. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 00:10, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Track & road events table Y

I noticed that most of the automatic times are added in the table except for Musa's 5000 m race, where automatic is 15:10.24. This is optional if you want to add this or keep the hand time of 15:10.2. - Added
Per above, Musa was 22nd in the 10,000 metres, not 21st. - Fixed Y

Boxing

P1 Y

"Uganda sent eight boxers to compete at the Games." - citation needed as the Sports Reference citation is listing the medallists, not competitors. - Added Y
"The boxing event was held at the Arena México in the Colonia Doctores district of Mexico City." - While Sports Reference has the arena name, it doesn't have the district name. - Added Y
"Three of the squad, Douglas Ogada, Matthias Ouma and Andrew Kajjo, were eliminated after losing their first bouts." - Yes and no. The references alone doesn't state that only three of the eight Ugandan boxers were eliminated after their first bout. So I might suggest removing "three of the squad" unless there's a source that shows the results for all eight Ugandian boxers. - Reworded Y
- Also. since Ouma and Kajjo received byes in the first round, this could help clarify that they weren't eliminated in the first round, but second. Yes, you've mentioned they were eliminated in their first match, but to me first match = first round (though this case it's not).
  - I like how you reworded it with earlier rounds. You avoided having to mention byes. Sounds good! --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 00:15, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Similiar issue with Odhiambo receiving a bye in the first round. - RewordedY
- Almost. Odhiambo entered in the second round, not third, as he had a bye in the first. Y --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 00:15, 7 January 2020 (UTC) - Fixed[reply]

P2 Y

"both won their ties to reach the semi-finals." - Neither Rwabwogo and Mukwanga quarter-final matches were ties in points. If you're referring to them both winning the match by decision, then I think that'd be more accurate.Y

Ties is a common term for a fixture in British English, see [1] as an example. Kosack (talk) 22:29, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Again, I have to ask: is it used in boxing? Google gives me boxing ropes for ties. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 00:31, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've reworded if it's causing confusion. Kosack (talk) 13:44, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Probably since I used Google Canada, it didn't come up. Bouts works for me. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 00:42, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Rwabwogo defeated Hungarian Tibor Badari on points" - same issue as above as both match results say decision. Y

Points are what decision victories are based on. Kosack (talk) 22:29, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I saw this after the fact after I hovered over what the abbreviations meant in the table. NVM. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 00:35, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"By reaching the round, both fighters were guaranteed at least a bronze medal, the first medals Uganda had ever achieved at an Olympic Games." - not verified in New Vision. - Amended refY Note: see below.
New problem with the adjusted New Vision ref (Uganda’s sports heroes). It doesn't say that both boxers were "guaranteed" a medal at the Olympics, whether it'd be bronze or higher. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 00:31, 7 January 2020 (UTC) - Added[reply]
- "the first medals Uganda had ever achieved at an Olympic Games" - redundant to the third paragraph last sentence for this section. Y

--MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 00:31, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Rwabwogo faced Polish fighter Artur Olech who had won the silver medal four years earlier in Tokyo." - Historical Dictionary doesn't state Olech and Rwabwogo faced each other in the semi-finals nor that the 1964 Olympics were at Tokyo. Extra source needed. -Repeated ref Y
- Rwabwogo's profile doesn't mention Tokyo, but Olech's profile does if you want to swap it out. Or, you could swap Tokyo for the year. Up to you. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 00:31, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The article has already established the Games were in Tokyo, I don't think we need to source the location each time it's mentioned. Kosack (talk) 13:44, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Usually I go by whether or not a source has the exact information stated in the wikipedia article. But, as you stated, it has already been determined earlier in the source. I guess in this case it's fine. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 21:17, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Olech proved too strong for Rwabwogo,"- not neutral with "proved too strong" - Reworded Y
- defeating the Ugandan 4–1 on points" - not mentioned in Sports Reference. - Fixed Y
  - I see you corrected the points. Well spotted! --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 00:31, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

P3 Y

"In his semi-final bout, Mukwanga defeated South Korean Chang Kyou-chul, progressing to the final after winning 4–1 on points." - source needed as the adjacent reference is Sokolov's profile. - Repeated ref Y
- Close. You would need to repeat Mukwanga's profile, not Rwabwogo's. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 00:37, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"but suffered a TKO defeat" - I'd suggest rewording "suffered" for neutrality. Y

"Suffering" a defeat is a common term in British English and doesn't imply any lack of neutrality, see [2] and [3] for examples. Kosack (talk) 22:29, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

But those are soccer sources. If there were sources that used it reguarily for neturality sure. Google search shows "suffered" as in suffered injuries for boxing sources. Is there a different term for lost that boxing uses? --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 22:38, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There are plenty of boxing uses of "suffer" in referencing a defeat. See [4], [5] and [6]. Kosack (talk) 13:44, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Funny those didn't come up for me (I use Google.ca LOL!) I'll accept it then. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 20:14, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Boxing table matches Y

Ogada faces Jee Yong-ju in the first round, not second.Y
Rwabwogo faced Sang-Yeong and Vasquez in the first and second round, not second and third round.Y
Jackson faced Salzburger and Larsen in rounds 1-2, not 2-3.Y
Jackson faced Christian Larsen, not Niels Larsen, in round 2.Y
Ouma received a bye and faced Kiesleyov in rounds 1 to 2, not rounds 2 to 3.Y

The original editor seemed to have based the table on numerical order than the actual order. While perhaps more visually appealing, I'd agree that factually it works better now. Kosack (talk) 22:18, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That's okay. It was a quick fix!

Boxing table resultsY

Ogada's profile doesn't have his match results. However, according to Jee Yong-ju's profile, it should be RSC-2, not TKO-2.Y Note: - see comment.
Rwabwogo's result against Olech was 2-3, not 1-4.Y
Mukwanga defeated Suarez in a KO, not TKO.Y
Mukwanga RSC's win against Giju was in the 2nd round, not first.Y
Mukwanga doesn't have his match result against Sokolov. But, Sokolov's profile says RSC-2, not 1.Y Note: - see comment.
Jackson defeated Salzbruger with a KO, not TKO.Y
As Muruli didn't make it to the final, should his ranking be there?Y

--MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 21:50, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Addressed all these. Apologies, I should of checked the existing info on the page and not relied on others. Kosack (talk) 22:07, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- No worries! I'm think citations to Jee Yong-ju and Sokolov's profile should be added to these two specific matches. Only reason as this information is not found on Ogada's and Mukwanga's specific profile for some reason. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 22:26, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Added these in. Kosack (talk) 15:01, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Perfect! Only reason was for percautionary measures. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 20:13, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Overall

Overall, there's some miscellaneous criteria that need to be addressed: minor points are grammar, words to watch, neutrality and too much detailed. Main issue is verification needed (with extra sources needed / information tweaked to match source and pass OR). Otherwise, article has reflist, is stable, not applicable to illustrations, covers main topic, has no copyvio. I'll place this on hold as you've edited this article, and going through this review now. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 22:21, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review, I've responded to all points above. Let me know what you think. Kosack (talk) 15:01, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Recap of what's left to address

Here's what's left for certain (I have to check a couple of other things) @Kosack:

Lead: I'm not 100% sure about the reliability of Olympic Games Winners per the first paragraph of the disclaimer. I suggest swapping out this source.Y

I've recovered an archived version of the IOC table, although it doesn't combine places for nations with the same totals which I'm unsure of. Either way I've changed it to 38th although it is at odds with our own article. Kosack (talk) 19:30, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm that's indeed strange with the contradictory sources. In any sense, thanks for digging up that source! --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 20:23, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Background P1: Sports Reference doesn't help clarify that 1964 was Uganda's first Olympics as an independent country. If you see the 1960 page, it has their same flag event though it shouldn't. I think a new source that does specifically state 1964 was the first Olympics since independence is needed.Y

The article has a date of independence and a year of the first Olympics. As the Olympics are held every four years, it would have been impossible for there to be another event in the meantime. This seems pretty simple to ascertain from the information available. Kosack (talk) 19:30, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I know this is the case, and I'm going by what the source said. As you swapped it out for athleticsuganda, this makes it a lot easier to determine without looking outside the source. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 20:23, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Background P2: As you feel that referencing every Olympics beforehand is excessive, how about dropping " were the only members of Uganda's 11-man delegation" and adjusting the refs to reflect that? This would avoid having to cite every previous Olympics to verify the other 9 competitors hadn't appeared before.Y
My point was more that the overview containing links to all Olympic squads was adequate. I've bundled the three previous Olympics into a single ref to try and reduce congestion so they're all included now. Kosack (talk) 19:56, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Your condensing of sources works for this as well. I thought trimming what wasn't there would be easier, but in this case condensing makes it easier to read. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 20:23, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Athletics P2: If changing "last" to "eighth" isn't worthwhile for Omolo's 400 metres finish, you could add a cite to the specific race that lists all 8 competitors. It'd still mean the same thing. MInor point.

I'm not overly fussed either way, happy to leave as is. Kosack (talk) 19:30, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Boxing P2: I don't think "guaranteed" is the right word here about Rwabwogo and Mukwanga would receive at least a bronze. Usually, the 4th place competitor would not receive a medal in other sports. If there was a source that explained that each boxing class event would give 4 medals (gold, silver, and 2 bronzes), then that'd work.Y

--MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 23:04, 7 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Added a source for two bronzes. Kosack (talk) 19:30, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That source does say two bronzes but doesn't verify this was the case in 1968. Maybe an extra source that shows this had happen then would be required as this is for the 2020 Olympics. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 20:34, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The original refs I included showed this happened as it lists both semi-finallists receiving bronze medals at the games. Kosack (talk) 20:57, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm. I was more concerned about the word "guaranteed". I only checked the medals and didn't consider the ranks i.e. 3T, 5T. Guess the answer was right in front of me and I overthought it. And this source even confirms it even more. No need to swap it again then. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 21:04, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've addressed the remaining points above. Kosack (talk) 19:56, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Kosack: Good work so far! I've left a comment for the last one here. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 20:34, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Background P2 other statement - The Uganda years at Sports Reference plus New Vision doesn't state Omolo is a sprinter. I suggest swapping for athlete for this instance only. --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 21:13, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Tweaked the sentences, his profile is now included in that sentence. All of the competitiors were athletes so it doesn't really describe him. Kosack (talk) 21:19, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. I think you're good to go. In terms of wind assistance/sprinter/long distance, I guess these could be common knowledge and won't have any issues determining them with the given sources. I'll pass this article. Good job! --MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 21:26, 8 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]