Talk:UFC 139

Cung Le responds on Twitter regarding communist flag used for UFC 139

http://twitter.com/#!/cungle185

CungLe185 Cung Le @ @ANDYONEr I did not know. I have it all over my shorts and shirt. That must of been production. It did say born in ? can't catch everything)

@Luv4theGame Look at what I wear. I rep more than a lot of people. 11 hours ago

@Luv4theGame I will ask them. 10 hours ago

@ @ANDYONEr I will ask them! 10 hours ago PinoyFilAmPride (talk) 20:42, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Thats not good enough proof Glock17gen4 (talk) 21:39, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

You can use a South Vietnam flag for Cung Le, but if I see an American flag I will reverse it, as it's inaccurate... Glock17gen4 (talk) 21:40, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

If you reverse it, I will do the same. I don't know how many times I need to tell you on understanding the difference between Cung's NATIONALITY as opposed to his Ethnic background/Heritage. The South Vietnamese flag is his heritage, same way that Mark Munoz acknowledges his Filipino heritage. Same way that Cain Velasquez acknowledges his Mexican heritage. Cung Le has competed and coached for Team USA. His UFC.com profile quotes him as calling himself an American. This is something you refuse to accept and the ONLY EVIDENCE you provide is ONE PICTURE which has already been questioned by Cung Le himself through twitter. You clearly do not understand. I have already reported you. So you can reverse all you want, and I will do the same PinoyFilAmPride (talk) 23:02, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Cung Le is an AMERICAN [USA]

http://a1.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/57/3a83a297fdeb7f1d02841979c9a0a4dc/l.jpg

http://www.ufc.com/fighter/Cung-Le http://cungle.com/fight-profile/

"Specific accomplishments in amateur competition? Three time Bronze Medalist in the Wushu World Championships. I am the only American Wushu Kung Fu Athlete to have three World medals. I also was California Junior State Champion (158 lbs) and AAU Freestyle and Greco Roman National Champion (163 lbs). Also, California State High School Wrestling All-American. " — Preceding unsigned comment added by PinoyFilAmPride (talk • contribs) 18:50, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

"The action in a Sanshou match is constant, dynamic, and exciting, and it fit the Vietnamese-American wunderkind like a glove, giving his personality, athleticism, and spirit the perfect stage on which to shine." — Preceding unsigned comment added by PinoyFilAmPride (talk • contribs) 04:26, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

His fighter profile includes him as competing and COACHING team USA: 1999 Art of War Light Heavyweight Champion (China vs. USA) Honolulu, HI Cung Le vs. Nashun Gerile (Mongolian King) 3rd TKO Scissor Kick (CCTV)

1998 Shidokan Team USA Champion Chicago, IL 1st fight Cung Le vs. Ben Harris 2nd round KO spin hook kick to head 2nd fight Cung Le vs. Laimon M. Keita 5th round tap out (foot lock) 3rd fight Cung Le vs. Arne Soldwedel 7th round KO right hook to head (Got paid and turn pro)

"Having conquered the Sanshou world in every conceivable manner – as an international medalist, an undefeated ESPN2 Strike Force professional fighter, and wildly successful US Sanshou Team coach"

Notice how he is carrying two flags, one SOUTH VIETNAM which no longer exists but is his heritage and many Vietnamese-American refugees who fled during the war. Cung Le is an American national, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT. DO Not mistake his ethnic background and heritage as compared to his current Nationality. PinoyFilAmPride (talk) 17:45, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Cung Le is American. This is the first time I've ever seen his name on a card with the South Vietnamese flag. He's not South Vietnamese as that is a country which longer exists. It's the same as saying a fighter is from Nyasaland. He lives and is based in America no? I looked at a few previous fight cards on wiki and they do show the US flag. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.182.226.14 (talk) 07:34, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

I agree, his Wiki even states his NATIONALITY as an American. There is no such thing as "Saigonese" either PinoyFilAmPride (talk) 23:43, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

⇈⇈ EXACTLY, USING A SOUTH VIETNAM FLAG FOR CUNG LE IS LIKE USING A JAPANESE FLAG FOR BRIAN STANN AND MARK MUNOZ SINCE THEY'RE BORN IN JAPAN. THAT IS JUST ABSURD. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.189.71.47 (talk) 21:16, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Wanderlei was linked to fight Belfort and Cung Le replaced BelfortWrestlings Savior (talk) 03:55, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Kampmann fight was a unanimous decision. They clarified that a mistake was made during the post fight presser. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BigGcastle (talk • contribs) 05:31, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Cung Le is about as American as Osama Bin Laden, he was born in Vietnam, and came out to a Vietnam flag, here's the proof!

http://i43.tinypic.com/2w5slyw.jpg Glock17gen4 (talk) 03:56, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

You really need to stop trolling bro! Osama Bin Laden? really? really? really? Do you realize just because someone was born in another country does not mean they can't be an American! First of all, Cung Le has competed and coached Team USA.

http://a1.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/57/3a83a297fdeb7f1d02841979c9a0a4dc/l.jpg

Second of all, he came out with the 3 stripes on his shorts NOT THE CURRENT Vietnamese flag. http://cdn3.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/2307864/11_SilvaLe_07_large.jpg

He is not a Vietnamese NATIONAL! Obviously someone working for the UFC did not recognize this. Stop vandalizing! PinoyFilAmPride (talk) 04:50, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

It's you who is vandalizing, not me... Glock17gen4 (talk) 21:36, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

You can use a South Vietnam flag for Cung Le, but if I see an American flag I will reverse it, as it's inaccurate... Glock17gen4 (talk) 21:40, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Again, and you continue to reverse it back to the communist flag. You clearly do not understand and continue to refuse to accept the significant proof that I have provided. Nationalities can change, this is an issue that you continue to not understand. I have already provided enough proof. You can reverse all you want, and I will do the same. PinoyFilAmPride (talk) 23:04, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Why is a North Vietnamese flag by his name?

He doesn't identify with North Vietnam, he wasn't born in North Vietnam. Please change this. 184.96.230.182 (talk) 23:02, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

That is correct. He represents the South Vietnamese flag, but it's no different from Cain Velasquez representing his Mexican heritage even though he is an American by Nationality PinoyFilAmPride (talk) 07:47, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Thats the main flag of Vietnam now, heres the flag Cung Le came out to, and heres the flag that belongs in this article!

http://i43.tinypic.com/2w5slyw.jpg Glock17gen4 (talk) 03:55, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Stop trolling! Cung Le did not come out to that flag, look at his shorts! http://cdn3.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/2307864/11_SilvaLe_07_large.jpg. Even on his UFC.com profile, he is quoted as stating that he is an American PinoyFilAmPride (talk) 05:30, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Cung Le already has responded on his twitter that he did not know about the communist flag!

http://twitter.com/#!/cungle185 @ANDYONEr I did not know. I have it all over my shorts and shirt. That must of been production. It did say born in ? can't catch everything); @ANDYONEr I will ask them! PinoyFilAmPride (talk) 19:16, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

He was born in Saigon, so I'll let a South Vietnam flag slide, but I better not see an American flag next to Cung's name, thats vandalism.

Again, you clearly do not understand that just because someone is born in another country that they can STILL apply for U.S. citizenship. I have already given an example of another athlete that has played for the TEAM USA basketball team but was born in Nigera, Hakeem. You are promoting vandalism by continuing to revert the picture back to a communist flag and refuse to accept any of the evidence I have provided PinoyFilAmPride (talk) 23:05, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Cung Le is NOT American

http://i43.tinypic.com/2w5slyw.jpg

This image proves that. He is Vietnamese... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Glock17gen4 (talk • contribs) 02:59, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

That doesn't prove anything. Matter of fact, it contradicts because if Cung Le and the many anti-communist Vietnamese fans found out that the UFC was actually really using the communist flag to represent Cung. All hell would break lose. Cung Le represents the South Vietnamese flag, which no longer exists. UFC is probably just trying to promote Cung's Vietnamese heritage to gain more fans, just like they do with Cain Velasquez and the Mexican fans http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5pcovx7Tjg. He also wouldn't be announced as "San Jose's own" if Cung Le was just Vietnamese http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aa8tHGuKXoY PinoyFilAmPride (talk) 07:45, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

He came out to a Vietnamese flag, thats all that matters, he was born in Nam, so just give it up already... He's no American! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Glock17gen4 (talk • contribs) 03:54, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Being born in another country does not mean someone CAN NOT immigrate to the USA and apply for U.S. Citizenship! Are you saying Hakeem Olajuwon who played for Team USA's Dream Team is not an American and only Nigerian? PinoyFilAmPride (talk) 05:25, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Thats irrelevant, like I said, you can change it to the South Vietnam flag if you want, but if I see you or anyone vandalize this article and try and claim Cung Le is an American, I will change it back to that current flag of Nam, deal? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Glock17gen4 (talk • contribs) 21:31, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

How is that irrelevant? It is a perfect example as to how Cung Le's Nationality changed. I gave you a perfect example of an athlete who changed his nationality and is now an American, yet you compared Cung Le to Osama Bin Laden. Cung Le has already acknowledged that he does not represent the communist Flag, yet you continue to choose and use that flag to identify him. He has already also acknowledged his American NATIONALITY. I have already given significant evidence as to why that is his Nationality, yet you refuse to accept that. It is clear that you are vandalizing because you have no provided any information besides a PICTURE that Cung Le himself has already responded he did not know about. I have already reported you. PinoyFilAmPride (talk) 23:34, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Cung Le is NOT a VIETNAMESE National

Please do some research, if you're only going by UFC's marketing, I hope you realize that you shouldn't take everything for face value. ONE, I suggest you research Vietnamese refugees and as to why CUNG LE wears the South Vietnamese 3 stripes. If he was a VIETNAMESE NATIONAL, he would not be wearing that because for one that would be a huge insult to the many Vietnamese-Americans in San Jose where he is from. Notice how he represents the STRIPES not the current VIETNAMESE National flag with one star http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets/895416/w2.gif on his trunks. Second, it wouldn't be the first time UFC would try to use FLAGS to market their fights. Remember, Cain Velasquez has the Mexican flag behind his promos vs Brock Lesnar and he was marketed as the "First Mexican heavyweight champion" when everyone knows Cain is also an American.

Pay attention closely, Cung Le is even announced as "San Jose's own" not Vietnam's. Look at his UFC profile,http://www.ufc.com/fighter/Cung-Le it clearly says he is from Saigon, Vietnam but fights out of San Jose. 1) Saigon was not communist. 2) If he was truly just "Vietnamese" he wouldn't be announced as fighting from San Jose rather just Vietnam. Look at his picture here, he CLEARLY is holding the SOUTH VIETNAM flag. Not the current Communist flag. http://www.mmafightspace.com/CungLe. He also competed against CHINA in a tournament, watch the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aa8tHGuKXoY PinoyFilAmPride (talk) 17:23, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

PinoyFilAmPride has been proven wrong with this pic! http://i43.tinypic.com/2w5slyw.jpg Glock17gen4 (talk) 03:53, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Nope, Glock17gen4 has been proven wrong and continues to troll Cung Le articles! The only evidence you can find is that picture, when even Cung Le has already responded through twitter that he did not know about that. He clearly represents the South Vietnamese flag and the USA. He is not a Vietnamese national. I have provided significant evidence that he is a Vietnamese-American. American is his nationality, Vietnamese being his ethnicity/heritage. Do NOT mistake his ethnicity as his current NATIONALITY. Those are two completely different things. Both his website and UFC.com also has proof that he recognizes himself as an AMERICAN. I have already provided significant proof including pictures and quotes, yet all you have is ONE PIC and then the ridiculousness of the comparison between Cung to Osama Bin Laden that you made! YOU ARE CLEARLY TROLLING! PinoyFilAmPride (talk) 20:48, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

And you are clearly vandalizing this article with inaccurate info, if you wanna change it to a South Vietnam flag, thats fine, if I see anything but a current Vietnam flag or a South Vietnam flag, im gunna change it to the accurate current Vietnam flag, understand? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Glock17gen4 (talk • contribs) 21:33, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Inaccurate based on what? because you think so? The only proof you have in one picture. As I've already stated, you can change it and I'll change it back because the proof I have provided supports my facts. Your fact is only one picture that Cung Le himself already said he did not know the UFC used. You clearly have a major issue. You do not understand. PinoyFilAmPride (talk) 23:08, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Cung Le is not AMERICAN [USA] and Kampmann won by Unanimous decision

People really need to do some research before they change these articles.

http://www.legalzoom.com/marriage-divorce-family-law/family-law-basics/is-your-child-us

"[C]itizenship is determined by one's place of birth." I don't know why that is so hard for you all to understand. The comparison to Brian Stann makes no sense, he was born to military parents who were U.S. citizens and thus was entitled to U.S. citizenship himself as soon as he entered the U.S.. Unless you're suggesting that Cung Le's parents were U.S. citizens, I don't think that comparison holds much weight. The comparison to Cain Velasquez also makes no sense. Cain was born in California, he just claims his Mexican heritage. It's not like Le was born in San Jose, as PinoyfilAmPride seemed to suggest. Le was born in South Vietnam and was presumably a Vietnamese citizen before his family immigrated to the U.S. How is he possibly not a Vietnamese national? I think using the South Vietnamese flag, as the article previously did, makes the most sense.

And whoever changed the Martin Kampmann decision back to a split decision is also wrong. Dana White confirmed that the judges' scorecards were improperly read in the cage and corrected it at the post fight press conference. It should read that Kampmann won by unanimous decision.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpFgSmpcwUM — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.161.127.75 (talk) 19:03, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

I agree, Cung Le came out to a flag of Vietnam, here's proof! http://i43.tinypic.com/2w5slyw.jpg Glock17gen4 (talk) 03:52, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Again, all you have is one picture. That is not enough proof PinoyFilAmPride (talk) 20:49, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

That one pic speaks a thousand words, and thats also what I saw with my own eyes, if you wanna change it to a South Vietnam flag, fine by me... But if I see anyone vandalize this article and try and say Cung Le is an American which he clearly didnt represent our flag, I will change it back to the accurate current Vietnam flag... Glock17gen4 (talk) 21:29, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

He is an American. You continue to change it back to the communist Vietnam flag. Just because he did not represent with the USA flag does not mean he isn't American. Are you saying Cain Velasquez and Mark Munoz aren't Americans either because they represent their heritage? That is ridiculous. What is even more ridiculous is that you compared Cung Le to Osama Bin Laden. Think about it for a second. Who is the one using extreme and irrational examples and comparison? Who is the one who refuses to accept any other evidence, and only accepts one picture as proof as compared to what Cung Le himself said. You clearly do not understand. PinoyFilAmPride (talk) 23:10, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

You have yet to present any convincing evidence that he is American. When did he change his citizenship? Is he a dual citizen? You don't seem to want to answer this. The only fact that's been presented is that he was born in Vietnam. I'm still waiting on all this other evidence. I love how you talk about distrusting the UFC's branding and then rely entirely on Cung's branding. He coached a USA team. That means absolutely nothing. I'm pretty sure our national soccer team's coach is German right now. He calls himself American in marketing campaigns the same way the UFC calls him Vietnamese in marketing campaigns, neither one is conclusive. He was born a Vietnamese citizen, and until it's proven that he is no longer a Vietnamese citizen, I'd put the Vietnamese flag by his name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.161.127.75 (talk) 11:56, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

I have already provided enough information as why his Nationality is an American. He is not a dual-citizen, if he is in fact a dual-citizen hee would still technically be an American as well, so trying to dispute that he is not an American would not make sense. He already tweeted that he is not a dual-citizen. Furthermore, the only fact that has been presented is that he was born in Saigon, Vietnam (which no longer exists btw) and fled during the war. Secondly, citizenship is not only deteremined by birth. Also he has been married twice already. Finally, I like how you missed the part where his bio clearly shows that he not only COACHED but he COMPETED with Team USA. If you would like to change it, go ahead but I will dispute it until you find more evidence besides birthplace. PinoyFilAmPride (talk) 00:12, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Cung Le is an AMERICAN (USA) continuation

Since the above poster does not realize that there was already a section made concerning "Cung Le is not an American", I will respond in the same way in my argument and create another section disputing that he is.

First off, PLACE OF BIRTH is one way of gaining citizenship. IT IS NOT THE ONLY WAY that happens in the United States. Second of all, the Cain Velasquez comparison had nothing to do with birth rather how UFC markets its fighters. Cain's promos, especially when he fought Brock, had him with the Mexican flag and Brock with the USA flag only.

Lastly, CUNG LE has been quoted already (see first section) as identifying as an American, competed and coached TEAM USA as well. Just because he was born in "Saigon", Vietnam does not mean he currently is a Vietnamese national. Lastly, Saigon and the South Vietnamese flag no longer exists because obviously Vietnam is currently communists. So I beg to differ that the South Vietnam flag should be used to identify him. Not only that, his wiki even states that he is an American, which again I gave SPECIFIC EVIDENCE as to why. Citizenship through birth is not the only means of gaining citizenship. If you can research citizenship through birth, I think you can obviously google "immigrants that apply for citizenship as well". PinoyFilAmPride (talk) 20:28, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

http://i43.tinypic.com/2w5slyw.jpg Cung Le is Vietnamese, he did not come out with an American flag... Glock17gen4 (talk) 03:51, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

He came out to the South Vietnamese flag. Cung Le already posted on his twitter that it was probably a UFC production error. I have already provided significant PROOF, and not only just ONE picture like you, to prove that he is not a Vietnamese National. You have been proven wrong on multiple occasions, including a Twitter response from Cung Le himself. YOU CLEARLY ARE TROLLING! PinoyFilAmPride (talk) 20:50, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

That one pic speaks a thousand words, and thats also what I saw with my own eyes, if you wanna change it to a South Vietnam flag, fine by me... But if I see anyone vandalize this article and try and say Cung Le is an American which he clearly didnt represent our flag, I will change it back to the accurate current Vietnam flag... Glock17gen4 (talk) 21:28, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Once picture that has already been refuted by Cung Le himself. Ironic that your eyes can not see the evidence that I have provided but only accept the one picture. I will change it back if you continue to use the communist flag. This is the last time I will respond to you PinoyFilAmPride (talk) 23:36, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

I'm gunna change it back if you use any flag but the Vietnam flag or South Vietnam flag... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Glock17gen4 (talk • contribs) 23:53, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Glock, you can change it if you want and I'll report you and dispute it with the current evidence already provided. You only have two pieces of information, "tale of the tape" which clearly only says "Born" and from "Saigon, Vietnam". Again, I gave you another example of an athlete. Steve Nash was born in South Africa. I'll give you another one, Tony Parker - born in Belgium but is a French National. Recognize the difference? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Parker PinoyFilAmPride (talk) 09:00, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from , 21 November 2011

CORRECTION

Kampmann defeated Story via unanimous decision (30–27, 29–28, 29–28). A mistake was made by one of the judges during the event, scoring the fight 29–28 in favor of Story, resulting in a split decision. The call was reversed after the end of the event.

141.161.127.75 (talk) 19:10, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Also, the article is no longer protected.   — Jeff G. ツ (talk) 05:12, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

The Admin said discuss on the discussion page

Regarding the Cung Le flag, Here is my proof:

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/386683_308847835811428_308847602478118_1157132_1118996196_n.jpg

That is picture proof that Cung Le used a Vietnam flag. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Glock17gen4 (talk • contribs) 00:31, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

That is proof that UFC and Zuffa decided to use a North Vietnamese flag. If you look at his supporters in the crowds at many of his fights, they are waving South Vietnamese flags. 184.96.230.182 (talk) 21:17, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Thank you, Glock seems to not understand certain things. On his UFC.com profile, it also clearly shows that he has competed for Team USA, called himself an American, and even tweeted that he is a U.S. citizen and does not hold dual citizenship. The South Vietnamese flag is part of his heritage, many Vietnamese-Americans prefer that flag compared to the current communist one. Cung Le has also been featured as part of the Vietnamese-Americans wikipedia page for a while as well PinoyFilAmPride (talk) 08:57, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Discussion Closed

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/386683_308847835811428_308847602478118_1157132_1118996196_n.jpg Thanks to this image and the help of Cyberpower678, the correct flag for Cung Le has offically been ruled this flag Glock17gen4 (talk) 04:16, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

The discussion above has been closed.—cyberpower (Talk to Me)(Contributions) 01:13, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Cyberpower, I hope now you can assume the discussion closed and that he is only a citizen of the United States. He directly tweeted that he in fact a U.S. citizen and does not hold dual citizenship. To also provide further proof that is him, on his UFC.com profile, you can clearly see that his tweets are listed. Please Cyberpower, I ask you next time to make sure you provide evidence on your sources as I am. I hope this clears everything and I thank you for your cooperation and as I stated I would research as much as I can to prove that he is a U.S. citizen.

http://scribe.twitter.com/#!/cungle185

@Luv4theGame I am a US citizen. Who cares what they say! They have nothing better to do with their time.

http://www.ufc.com/fighter/Cung-Le

UFC.com profile look at the bottom right, his tweets are shown.

PinoyFilAmPride (talk) 05:38, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Cool story bro, btw it says "From: Saigon, Vietnam" on UFC.com profile you so graciously posted. Glock17gen4 (talk) 06:54, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

He is from Saigon, Vietnam. What's your point? Steve Nash was born in South Africa, yet he is Canadian. PinoyFilAmPride (talk) 08:55, 25 November 2011 (UTC)