Talk:UEFA club competition records and statistics

A bit of biasing here ==

This page is absolutely confusing. It should clearly say in the title in parenthesis "(Organized explictly by UEFA)" at least, as UEFA clubs played some cups which are recognized by FIFA but not organized/recorded by UEFA (Fair's Cup, Clubs World Cup). Aside from the fact that this has no informative value, since it's confusing for the reader (why the hell do we need a specifical subset of 95% of the historical european competition records, if not for favouring Juventus and Madrid fans to forget about some fair's cup and the last 10 cup world cups which benefit Barça? It's ridiculous. Of course, we assume th international cup is accounted as a UEFA competition though it is very discussable... All the whatifs are clearly in favour of these two suspiciously. Not to say the IC was so irregular that there were refusals to play it (some years it wasn't hold, some others were played by arbitrary teams other than the official champions, which should be indicated). But in the title it should indicate the criteria for accounting competition (organized by UEFA, recognized by UEFA, approved by FIFA, whatever)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.102.115.116 (talk) 16:11, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Which competitions to include?

This page seems to have changed markedly from when I last looked at it in febraury. The totals table no longer includes the inter-cities fairs cup , but does include the super cup, intercontinental cup and intertoto cup.

In effect this makes it a different table, so I would say the original table should also be included on this page or linked to another page.

Athosfolk (talk) 15:43, 13 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This table is made according to UEFA official resolutions (see references and footnotes in the article). In UEFA.com UEFA NOT recognize Inter-cities Fairs Cup as official UEFA competition. This is the fact for an encyclopedia. All ranking for number of official trophies won includes european super cup, intercontinental cup and intertoto cup. --Dantetheperuvian (talk) 23:29, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Which competitions to include?

Why is the Intercontinental Cup used? So its OK for the Fairs Cup not to be, so why Intercontinental cup? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fadiga09 (talk • contribs) 16:01, 24 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Because Intercontinental Cup was OFFICIAL and organized by FIFA and Fairs cup was organized by anyone, because UEFA doesn´t recognize that cup, so it´s UNOFFICIAL. --Ultracanalla (talk) 21:21, 24 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's not true. International cup was not recognized by FIFA, at least up to Toyota Cup format. René Courte, FIFA's General Sub-Secretary,

wrote an article shortly afterwards stating that FIFA viewed the competition as a "European-South American friendly match".[32]

This was confirmed by Sir Stanley Rous.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.102.115.116 (talk) 15:56, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

But this is the UEFA Competition Records, not FIFA. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fadiga09 (talk • contribs) 09:32, 25 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So what? FIGC also recognize all competitions organizated by UEFA. Intercontinental Cup was organizated by FIFA, for that IS recognize by all its regional confederations (e.g. UEFA). --Dantetheperuvian (talk) 20:12, 25 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Excuse me, when i ask a question i want it answered properly, this is the UEFA competition records page, the Intercontinental Cup is irrelevant, seeing as South America teams win it aswell, having it on here is totally pointless and wrong. It will be removed when i have time, any reliable arguments and i will revert.

Removing the Fairs Cup, is fine, but the Intercontinental Cup is a ludicrous addition. Unless anyone can explain how it is a UEFA competition, I will be removing it shortly. Black Kite 18:30, 3 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

See History of the Intercontinental Cup in UEFA.com. According UEFA (from European club competitions recognized by UEFA (page 23, PDF)): "These are the official statistics considered valid for communicating official records in UEFA club competitions defined as the European Champion Clubs' Cup, the UEFA Champions League, the UEFA Cup Winners' Cup, the UEFA Cup, the UEFA Super Cup (from the 1973 competition), the UEFA Intertoto Cup and the European/South American Cup (or Intercontinental Champions Clubs' Cup). The Inter-Cities Fairs Cup is not regarded as a UEFA competition but statistics are separately included for information purposes. One competition to give the title of "World Club Champions" is NOT a "irrelevant" event... The Intercontinental Cup is included in the list because IS recognized by UEFA (different respect the Fairs Cup case) as the international competitions are recognized by the national federations in their statistics. --Dantetheperuvian (talk) 00:20, 4 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You are missing the point completely - the IC is "recognised" by UEFA but it is not a UEFA competition and therefore does not belong on this page. Black Kite 00:38, 4 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So what? here and here (statistics of NATIONAL tournaments) are added international trophies and their are not organizated by The FA or FIGC. If you would like deleted Intercontinental Cup from this list, Why not delet all international cups from their list? Maybe a change in the title of the article... --Dantetheperuvian (talk) 19:35, 4 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

1. Interesting, so if you look at that first link you just posted, that table includes the Fairs Cup, so are suggesting that should be added too? Surely if it has the Intercontinental Cup it should have the Fairs Cup? I'm not suggesting it should, but just pointing out that both cups are listed there.

2. Those two links you provided are irrelevant and pointless, tell me what they have to do with this article? Obviously an English/Italian football records article will list every trophy their clubs have won? hence Intercontinental Cup is listed, what's it got to do with this article? This is about UEFA tournaments, an article showing that, those two links are about what English and Italian clubs have won in their history. It's simple in my eyes, UEFA tournaments article lists only European tournaments, surely then the exclusion of the South American winners makes this pointless? So, if someone can take out the Intercontinental Cup it'll be much appreicated, i can't say i know how to. (Fadiga09 (talk) 09:30, 6 May 2008 (UTC))[reply]

I retract my last posts above, it seems like UEFA.com does include the Intercontinental Cup as a trophy, my bad. (Fadiga09 (talk) 22:09, 7 May 2008 (UTC))[reply]

i dont understand how Liverpools 5 European cups rank below Juventus's 2. I know its on the number of trophies but surely the value and difficulty of the competition has to come in to it otherwise 2 intertoto cup wins = 2 champions cup wins which is not fair! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.206.66.121 (talk) 18:38, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

See:

Pos.	Team	European Cup-UEFA Champions League	UEFA Cup Winner's Cup	UEFA Cup	Intercontinental Cup	UEFA Super Cup	UEFA Intertoto Cup	Tot.
3 (THIRD)	Juventus FC	2	1	3	2	2	1^	11
3 (THIRD)	Liverpool FC	5	-	3	-	3	-	11

^Joint record with another club's

My dear child / user, i remember you that Juve have 2 World Cups v 0 (ZERO) of Liverpool and crown "World Champion" is always better than crown "Champion of Europe" like FIFA World Cup v Euro. The ranking is for chronological order in the same form thatFIFA have all its rankings (e.g. England is added first than France but France have 1 World Cup and 2 Eurocups v only 1 World Cup for England. England is first because it only WC is from 1966 v 1998 for France). In this case the latest Juve's title in a official UEFA competition was in 2000, the latest title won by Liverpool was in 2005. Obviously, in a chonological order Juve is add first and Liverpool after... --Dantetheperuvian (talk) 18:27, 16 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

UEFA Intertoto Cup confusions since 2006 edition

There is a bit of a mess when people try to add/update the Intertoto Cup wins. The problem occurs with the inclusion of clubs actually won the Intertoto Cup since 2006. As with the new format, which start in 2006, there are only 3 rounds instead of 5 (as previous years). Because of that, there are 11 clubs, that won the final round, declared winners of the Intertoto Cup. However, interestingly with the new format, the team who progress the furtherest were later awarded the UEFA Intertoto Cup outright. Newcastle United FC & Hamburger SV, therefore, won the UEFA Intertoto Cup outright in 2006, 2007 edition respectively.

Now on the UEFA page, UEFA clearly quote "Newcastle were the only ones to reach the UEFA Cup Round of 32, and in a new system were awarded the UEFA Intertoto Cup outright", however, UEFA still show that previous winners are all 11 clubs that won the final round of the competition, not the team that won outright (which I believe that should have been the case). UEFA also include the Intertoto Cup wins in each of those 11 clubs' page (on UEFA website, of course). That's probably the reason why people in here just jump in and edit/update/add, etc.

The question here is (probably to UEFA), what's the point of having an outright winners and then the bunch of other winners (no less than 10) also listed as well. That would make no difference being an outright winners. There can only be multiple winners if there is no outright winners. If there is 1, then there shouldn't be any multiple winners included. Thus, I believe there should be only 1 winner in 2006 & 2007 (and so 2008 as the last edition) UEFA Intertoto Cup.

In the mean time, for those who are agree with 11 clubs that won the UEFA Intertoto Cup since 2006 edition, when you edit/update/add, please do it correctly and fully. Dont just update on your favourite teams and leave out those who arent. Remember, there are 22 teams in total that won in 2006 & 2007. I have just looked at the page and I can see some teams haven't been added or update, such as Olympique de Marseille. If the 11 clubs won is right then they should have got 2 Intertoto Cup wins (as in their club page on UEFA website), not 1 as it is now.

I hope this confusions will be clear up asap so we wont have any mess on the page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Viva69 (talk • contribs) 00:36, 14 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Some statistics that are "blocked"

I mean, no more teams can ever win again the UEFA Cup Winners' Cup. So the ones that are listed today as the all competitions winner's will be the last ones. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.58.88.108 (talk) 15:57, 30 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No, every team that has won the UEFA Cup Winners' Cup can still win the other two competitions and complete the feat (as is mentioned in the article, too). OdinFK (talk) 07:39, 18 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Barcelona

Surely Barcelona should be included in the list of clubs to win the three main UEFA CLub competitions —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.157.41.161 (talk) 23:51, 9 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Also needs to be updated the fact that "Juventus is the only football club in the world to have won all continental tournaments (UEFA club competitions) and the world club champions title." Now has to be Juventus and FC Barcelona are the only....". FC Barcelona win six out of six competitions this season (2009-2010), 2/2 european, 3/3 spaniards and the World Club Champions title -- first case in history--, so this need to be updated too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.219.205.64 (talk) 18:19, 16 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

List of players to have won all international club competitions

If we consider Stefano Tacconi "winner" of the Uefa Super Cup 1984 (where he didn't play), we must do the same also with Arnold Mühren, who "won" the Uefa Super Cup 1973 (although he didn't play) and with Luciano Bodini, who "won" the Uefa Cup 1990-91 (he was Inter goalkeeper, but he never participated in the competition. Do you agree? --VAN ZANT (talk) 19:38, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What reliable source do you have that confirms Tacconi as winning that honour? Giant Snowman 20:07, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

According to the articles Tacconi was in the matchday squad whereas Bodini wasn't, which was the defining factor until the mid-to-late 1990s. ArtVandelay13 (talk) 20:16, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Did Taconi get a winner's medal? Call me old-fashioned, but I thought that was how we defined winners. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward: not at work) - talk 23:41, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Unused subs have always got winners' medals - that's the point I was making (squad players didn't until the mid-90s, so Bodini will have missed out). ArtVandelay13 (talk) 10:16, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Whatever about the qualification for the list, the list certainly doesn't qualify for its title. No-one has won all of those listed at Template:International_club_football, or anywhere close. Kevin McE (talk) 00:03, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Gabriel Milito did not train (let alone play) ONE SECOND in 2008/09, yet all titles in the renowned treble are listed in his HONOURS section... - --Vasco Amaral (talk) 01:16, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Arnold Mühren didn't participate in the victory of the Uefa Super Cup 1973, but at that time he was surely an Ajax player. So, why is Tacconi "winner" of the Super Cup 1984 while Mühren not??? The only way to solve this dispute is to consider as "winners" only the players who actively played a competition. Otherwise we risk making a muddle. --VAN ZANT (talk) 10:26, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Because we know that Tacconi was in the matchday squad, which is how UEFA used to define winners (in terms of who got a medal). We don't actually know all the subs for the 1973 ESC, so with Muhren we can't be sure. ArtVandelay13 (talk) 12:11, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, ok. Now it's clear. Thanks for your attention. --VAN ZANT (talk) 20:13, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that if a player is an active part of a squad that wins a competition (for example playing in a(ny) given round(s) prior to the final), he should be awarded the honour, so if both Tacconi and Mühren - wow, than pin-point cross to Marco van Basten at age 37 sure was something!! - were picked for the final's list of 18 (in that age surely 16), they surely must have played in the entire competition. Not Milito's case though... - --Vasco Amaral (talk) 21:15, 24 January 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by VAN ZANT (talk • contribs) [reply]

removal of Juve being the only one to win all competitions.

I've removed the following sentences, as they are simply untrue:

Juventus is the only football club in the world to have won all continental tournaments (UEFA club competitions) and the world club champions title.

As the paragraph speaks about "...to date, only three have won all three main UEFA club competitions (European Champions Clubs' Cup-UEFA Champions League, UEFA Cup Winners' Cup and UEFA Cup-Europa League): ..." it is untrue, or at least misleading, to put Juve as the only club in the world to have won all continental tournaments and the world club champions title. Both Bayern and Ajax won all major continental championships as well. Maybe Juve won some obscure title that Ajax or Bayern didn't, I'm not sure what was meant? Niels ^{? en |}^nl 22:56, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Bayern have not won UEFA Super Cup, Ajax have not won UEFA Intertoto Cup.--Dantetheperuvian (talk) 23:13, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I feared something like that. The statement I removed is simply not well placed in a section that has "List of teams to have won the three main European club competitions" as a header. Best option from my point of view is to keep the section about what it says it is ("main tournaments") and not add any confusing statements as above, second best is to add a clarification that Juventus is the only club in the world/Europe that has won all competitions, including the ones nobody really cares about, such as UEFA Intertoto Cup and UEFA Super Cup. What will it be? Niels ^{? en |}^nl 23:32, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've reverted again as your wording confuses the reader. For a lot of (not only) Dutch/German readers, the statement that Juventus is the only one to win all competitions is confusing, when Bayern/Ajax are mentioned in the same paragraph as also winning all main competitions. Niels ^{? en |}^nl 23:40, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Said "the ones nobody really cares about" is POV. Maybe it is for an Englishman, but not an Italian or Spanish. I fix the article separating that sentence in a different chapter as in the case of players and coaches to have won the "three main" and "all" European confederation competitions.--Dantetheperuvian (talk) 05:02, 20 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Didn't Ajax win the "International Football Cup"/UEFA Intertoto Cup the very first year of its existence in 1961-1962? I believe so. (http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Football_Cup) That would mean they have won all continental cups just like Juve. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.167.139.77 (talk) 16:14, 10 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That "European" competition is not recognised by UEFA, the sole organization authorized to make the official clubs' statistics and achievements at international level.--Dantetheperuvian (talk) 22:32, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of statistics not relevant to the article's subject

These edits remove footnotes that are NOT core content of the encyclopedia entry itself, and thus are minor because they have no bearing on the subject of the article, though I am always open to a discussion of the following points:

1) The article does not need to know how any team qualified for the cups they won - only that they won them! The odd footnote giving particulars of how Chelsea qualified for their third win is thus meaningless and just takes up space. If readers want to know how Chelsea got there, they will find their qualification information in the actual article that applies to that year's competition.

2) The editor "Talk" page has already discussed and decided that the Inter-Cities Fairs Cup was not organized by UEFA, therefore a minor 'cheat' to work these results into footnotes are not relevant to the subject of this article. The same applies to the FIFA Club World Cup, which the article does not count as a UEFA competition per the TITLE/purpose of this article. Feel free to include these results on the individual pages for those athletes - but they have no bearing on THIS article/entry of UEFA competitions.

3) The footnote providing details of which teams have won the three main UEFA Cups simply repeats the information shown, in explicit detail, in the article itself. This footnote may have been informative in some older version of the article, but is totally redundant now.

I look forward to a rebuttal, with explanation why these "non-UEFA sanctioned/operated" competition stats should, in fact, be counted in this article that discusses UEFA sanctioned/operated cups, and why a footnote that repeats the wording of the actual article (in less detail) should be retained.. Jmg38 (talk) 02:20, 9 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Matches of teams from the same country (national football federation)

Is there a list of matches of teams from the same federation in all European cups at all stages in the sources (media)? And, accordingly, which federations most often played with each other. - 93.191.73.62 (talk) 01:03, 19 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Player records: Note with Qualifying rounds included

For subsection 'Most appearances in UEFA club competitions' and subsection 'Top scorers in UEFA club competitions', player records include qualifying rounds, but do not mention them in the footnote.

as of 03.November 2022:

for example

Cristiano Ronaldo:

145 goals = 140 UCL; 2 UEL; 2 USC; 1 UCL-Qualifying

197 apps = 183 UCL; 8 UEL; 2 USC; 4 UCL-Qualifying

Robert Lewandowski:

98 goals = 91 UCL; 2 UEL; 5 UEL-Qualifying

136 apps = 111 UCL; 14 UEL; 1 USC; 10 UEL-Qualifying

Hence the question of whether these should also be mentioned in the note.

---->

so instead of :

' Includes UEFA Champions League (UCL), UEFA Cup Winners' Cup (UCWC), UEFA Europa League (UEL), UEFA Europa Conference League (UECL), UEFA Intertoto Cup (UIC), UEFA Super Cup (USC), Intercontinental Cup (IC) '

perhaps something like this:

'Includes UEFA Champions League (UCL), UEFA Cup Winners' Cup (UCWC), UEFA Europa League (UEL), UEFA Europa Conference League (UECL), UEFA Intertoto Cup (UIC), UEFA Super Cup (USC), Intercontinental Cup (IC)

and all UEFA club competitions qualifying rounds' Miria~01 (talk) 09:26, 4 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Although the UEFA source itself ( https://de.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/0257-0e91daaa4ec8-19686ad1d08f-1000--uefa-club-competition-all-time-top-scorers-cristiano-ronaldo-an/ ) does not explicitly mention the qualifying rounds in the footnote, they are included in the listing.

This means that if UEFA does not explicitly exclude qualifying rounds in its statistics, they will always be taken into account.

----->

But I am of the opinion that it should always be mentioned whether it is inclusive or exclusive, otherwise there will be confusion (it was definitely the case for me and I had to research it) Miria~01 (talk) 14:53, 4 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Finals on winners' home ground

— Ekin^(talk·@) 10:00, 2 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Jan Jacobus "Sonny" Silooy

Shouldn't Sonny Silooy be in the List of players to have won the three main European club competitions?

The Sonny Silooy page and the Dany Blind page says so.

Are there specific reasons? 2406:5900:119E:6A79:9577:23AB:97A1:3792 (talk) 07:18, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]