Talk:Turkey/Archive 33

Archive 30

Archive 31

Archive 32

Archive 33

Archive 34

Archive 35

→

Archive 40

Republic of Türkiye as official name

The Ivory Coast article currently continues to use the name Ivory Coast for the article's title but lists the country's official name as Republic of Côte d'Ivoire. While Côte d'Ivoire is not the common English name of the country, it is the governments official name for use in English. Currently the websites for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Culture and Tourism, Agriculture and Forestry, Health, Justice, National Defense, National Education, Trade and Treasury and Finance all list the countries official English name as the Republic of Türkiye. The majority of ministries that are not on this list are due to them not having official English language websites. The country's English official name being the Republic of Türkiye is overwhelmingly backed by the Turkish government, which is the most authoritative source of what the country's official name is. While Republic of Türkiye is not the common English name, it is undeniable the official English translation of the country's name and that it should be listed as such in the info box and lede. --Kappasi (talk) 17:50, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Is there a discussion board for this? I wouldn't mind changing the official name to Republic of Türkiye, but at the same time WP rules that the name should follow what is most prevailingly used in English. For example the Czech government has lobbied for years to change the official short name of their country to Czechia but this has not caught on in conventional English usage, so the article name remains "Czech Republic". Yekshemesh (talk) 18:30, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

@Yekshemesh: WP:COMMONNAME applies only to article titles. Republic of Türkiye is the full official name, and to say that anything else is the full official name would be misinformation.  — Mr. Guye (talk) (contribs)  20:26, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

Sure. Like I said, I don't mind the name change but what do other editors say? I saw there was a discussion board for this. Yekshemesh (talk) 01:56, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

This would be the place and I made the change since nobody has objected. Chess (talk) (please use {{reply to|Chess}} on reply) 14:50, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

@Beshogur: Perhaps you'd consider elaborating on why you reverted [2] this change as you've provided no information in the edit summary? Chess (talk) (please use {{reply to|Chess}} on reply) 17:07, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

We discussed this several times. There is still no consensus on this name, and there is still no UN submission on this official name change. Beshogur (talk) 17:22, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

A submission to the UN makes very little difference. Countries such as Abkhazia and Transnistria still have official names without even being part of the UN. At the end of the day, the Turkish government is in charge of what their county is called in an official capacity. Kappasi (talk) 19:57, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Well bad examples of non-UN members. Except, Turkey is still used in international issues. Beshogur (talk) 20:22, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

@Beshogur: Then discussions like this are the place to build consensus and I think it's time to start an RfC. Chess (talk) (please use {{reply to|Chess}} on reply) 20:03, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Honestly, I would support inclusion, but we might see soon whether UN is going to accept it as "Türkiye" or "Turkiye", without the "ü" which doesn't exist in English. So I would wait. Beshogur (talk) 20:23, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

The websites of the Grand National Assembly and Constitutional Court haven't changed the name. It looks like mostly executive branch institutions that have adopted the name. Firefangledfeathers (talk | contribs) 17:36, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

While it seems to have not yet been adopted by other branches of government, the name change was through a presidential decree which means that it is Turkish law unless the another law is introduced by the Parliament to overrule it. Kappasi (talk) 20:06, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

It’s misleading to say the presidential decree makes “Republic of Turkiye“ an official name. It doesn’t. There is, under the constitution, only one official name for the country, and that’s Türkiye Cumhuriyeti. That is literally the only official name. What the presidential decree did, as stated in this article in Hürriyet Daily News, is to give an instruction to Turkish governmental bodies to use the spelling Turkiye in English language communications that they issue - it doesn’t apply to anyone else even under Turkish law. That’s a very limited scope and not the same thing as “official name” in law or the constitution. In comparison the real official name of the country under the constitution is used for all purposes. The presidential decree specifically doesn’t say that “Turkiye” is an official name - and it couldn’t because it would then contradict the constitution which would be unlawful. Wikipedia isn’t a Turkish governmental institution and unless the constitution is changed to adopt a name for the country in English, and Republic of Turkiye is that name, this whole issue is irrelevant to what the “official name” of the country is. DeCausa (talk) 20:36, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Then the vast majority of countries should not have "official" names. Since this is a dead-end it's time to have an RfC. Chess (talk) (please use {{reply to|Chess}} on reply) 19:32, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

I’m not sure what you mean by that. Most have translations of official names, as does this article. DeCausa (talk) 19:34, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

@DeCausa: The Ivory Coast is described in its article as "officially the Republic of Côte d'Ivoire", Taiwan is labelled as "officially the Republic of China (ROC)", so on and so forth. Chess (talk) (please use {{reply to|Chess}} on reply) 19:39, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

Côte d'Ivoire is a special case. As far as the others are concerned, that’s not literally true is it. They’re translations of the official name. Normally, the precise formulation of the translation isn’t in doubt. The “short hand” of “officially” not being strictly correct doesn't normally matter and would be overly pedantic to state “it’s the generally accepted translation of the official name”. Côte d'Ivoire is different. For that there is an “official” translation in Ivorian law. Now compare that to Erdogan’s circular. That literally does not declare that to be “official”. It’s a direction for the spelling to be used in limited specific circumstances. And for Turkiye, because it’s not generally accepted as the translation of the official name, then it’s misleading to call it that. DeCausa (talk) 19:58, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

"Republic of China" is the translation of 中華民國 in English based on common usage. 中華 does not mean "Taiwan", it means "China". So not a helpful analogy. –Austronesier (talk) 18:33, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 May 2022

Name of Turkey is now Türkiye (Turkiye) so maybe name of page should be changed 87.208.221.142 (talk) 22:37, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: See frequent discussion above. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 22:43, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

It's a dictatorship

Please change the explanation of its government to be 'dictatorship' and list its leader as a 'dictator'. 2405:9800:BA00:163:9D72:A3BE:5E39:5573 (talk) 23:27, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 May 2022 (2)

2405:9800:BA00:163:9D72:A3BE:5E39:5573 (talk) 23:27, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. EvergreenFir (talk) 23:31, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 May 2022

Turkiye not turkey Rename per government of turkiye order 2600:8805:AA06:9100:389A:E3CF:781B:A66F (talk) 20:06, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit extended-protected}} template. Shadow4dark (talk) 20:18, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 May 2022

No genocides have been recorded during the end years of the ottoman times. Only speculation from Armenian hate extremists. Their own president had admitted it. Another note is that there was officialy only 1.3 million armenians around the 1910s when there was speculation of only 1.5 million deaths thereafter. Complete contradiction. Russian embassy also denies any Deaths. Due to this completely disgusting 'SPECULATION' of ' multiple genocides' this editor must not ever touch a Wikipedia site again. Change must be seen or else Wikipedia will be exposed as a no reliable joke of a website 115.70.218.93 (talk) 01:51, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: Please provide reliable sources for the changes you want to make. CollectiveSolidarity (talk) 01:58, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

Source with the picture of evident (A document in Russia's official archives). https://www.hurriyet.com.tr/gundem/russian-archives-refute-armenian-genocide-claims-9192242 31.223.48.163 (talk) 00:54, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 June 2022

Change all instances of "Turkey" to "Türkiye" as this is now the international name of the country, per: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/americas/un-registers-turkiye-as-new-country-name-to-replace-turkey/2603492 https://www.cbsnews.com/news/turkey-nation-name-change-turkiye/ https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/6/2/un-registers-turkiye-as-new-country-name-for-turkey Nickjthay (talk) 13:47, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: see WP:COMMONNAME Cannolis (talk) 13:49, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Turkiye, not tutkey anymore

Please 2A02:908:13B7:7720:5CF3:AB9F:FDE8:21FA (talk) 13:54, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Add to Category: Country Name Changes

Since the name was officially changed, should this page be added to Category: Country Name Changes? The category page itself doesn't have any criteria for inclusion, but I don't see any reason it shouldn't go there (unless the category is only for situations that resulted in a page move, but from the context of the supercategories, that doesn't seem to be the case). Areferencetopeterkropotkins1892booktheconquestofbread (talk) 15:15, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Move the article to Türkiye

The United Nations has formally accepted that it will rename the country to Türkiye on behalf of president Erdogans request.Jay 66483 (talk) 11:36, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

We already mention Türkiye in the lede now. However, it is too early for the move. We have to wait for secondary sources to start using the term more commonly. Khestwol (talk) 11:59, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

It shouldn't move due to commonname. Beshogur (talk) 13:20, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Not going to happen, it’s the same case as Ivory Coast (Cote D’Ivoire). Turkey is the commonname for the country in English by far. Gonzaloges (talk) 15:46, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

References

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 June 2022 (2)

The name of this page should be changed from Turkey to Türkiye, or at least Turkiye without the umlaut, given the following news: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/6/2/un-registers-turkiye-as-new-country-name-for-turkey

"The spokesman said the country name change became effective from the moment the letter was received." Jeffhba (talk) 16:00, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: This is actually a controversial edit, so you'll need to discuss first with other editors. Please open a new section here and start a discussion. See discussion above. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:08, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

I think we'll have to wait to see what usage reliable English language sources use. There are plenty of countries whose common English names are not the same as their official names, e.g. Germany. Sizeofint (talk) 16:11, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Czechia did the same six years ago. However, attempts to rename the article Czech Republic to Czechia have not been successful yet, always because of the WP:COMMONNAME policy. And there were five attempts since then. --Unloose ^(talk) 17:17, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Türkiye

The country has formally changed there name at the UN and at home, the page should show that. 2603:7000:3B40:B500:9975:83EF:67A1:FEF4 (talk) 16:35, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

The country has formally changed "their" name... innit? 86.170.111.221 (talk) 19:39, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 June 2022 (3)

The article mixes different English spellings (MOS:ARTCON), e.g. both "centre" and "center" appear in the current version of the article, and the introduction has both "liberalised" and "industrialized". Please change "centered", "center of Christianity", "considered to be the center", "colored ink", and "legalizing" to "centred", "centre of Christianity", "considered to be the centre", "coloured ink", and "legalising". Also, please change all references to "...ization" and "...ized" (e.g. "organization" and "industrialized") from "z" spellings to "s" spellings. 49.198.51.54 (talk) 22:15, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Well, what’s the WP:ENGVAR for this article? There’s more “center” than “centre” and “color” but no “colour”, more “defense” than “defence”. “z” instead of “s” can optionally be British English as well as compulsorily US English. It’s not clear which way any move to consistency should go. DeCausa (talk) 22:28, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

At the top of the article, we find {{EngvarB|date=November 2019}}. At the bottom of the article, you will find Category:EngvarB from November 2019. I find the documentation for {{EngvarB}} unenlightening, to say the least, and in need of clarification and copy editing. Someone may have to dig in to the history of this article to determine the best variant of English to use. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:11, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Rename Turkey to „Türkey“

This is the new Politicily Name for the Turkish State in Anatolia, since today Turkish President decided that. MountainKurd (talk) 21:19, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Do people read this talk page before posting? For 11th time same section in 2 days! Chrz (talk) 21:29, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

SUPPORT It is now official. Turkey has become a historical name:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/06/02/turkey-turkiye-erdogan-united-nations-un/ 120.17.142.88 (talk) 23:20, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Nope, it's still the common name. Wikipedia does not care what the Turkish president says. Seloloving (talk) 01:48, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

It's the Turkish people, not the Turkish president. Turkey has been known as Türkiye for thousands of years. Turkish people will get emotional when they hear Türkiye. On the other hand, Turkey is an unwelcomed name in Türkiye, it must be deleted. 120.17.142.88 (talk) 02:12, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Resolution to the Turkiye argument

Since the common name in English is still “Turkey” for most people, who might not be aware of the name change, but the official name is now Turkiye, shouldn’t it read: "Turkey, officially the Republic of Türkiye"

18:50, 2 June 2022 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheAmericanWarlord (talk • contribs)

I agree. --Moester101 (talk) 19:42, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Dubious. The only truly official name is Türkiye Cumhuriyeti. What can be said about Türkiye in English? (1) Erdoğan issued a memo expressing his preference for it (2) Most but not all Turkish agencies/ministries use it on the English versions of their websites (3) The UN has agreed to use it on UN English-language literature. The question is what does “official” mean? Clearly the constitutional name of a country is official (Türkiye Cumhuriyeti). But it’s not clear what “official” means in the context of other languages. There is no Turkish law that attempts to require the use of Türkiye in foreign languages. If Erdoğan says Türkiye should be used when speaking French and Académie Française says it’s Turquie, which is “official” for French? DeCausa (talk) 19:58, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

UNTERM contains English and French names. Official are short and long - both - "UN official". There's also "ISO official" and no word about that yet. UNGEGN which contains 6 world languages has not been changed yet - so Arabic, Chinese, Russian and Spanish names for ex-Turkey are yet to be seen. Other languages will probably not be affected, in UN sense or generally. I guess they cannot press all languages to be unified on ther Türkiye, no country managed it yet, and consider different aplhabets too... Chrz (talk) 21:27, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

They certainly can press all languages to be unified on Türkiye, both in spelling and pronunciation. In fact, this is their intention. The Ivorian government's preference for Côte d'Ivoire is exactly the same - it applies in every language, not matter what their script or ordinary spelling conventions, or whether the word is actually pronounceable in the target language.

Whether anyone will listen is another question. Funnily enough, unpronounceable words tend not to catch on. Kahastok talk 10:07, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Comment For the time being, it should be "Turkey or Türkiye, officially the Republic of Türkiye". 120.17.142.88 (talk) 01:49, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Oppose. We don't call Vietnam the Socialist Republic of Viet Nam. Seloloving (talk) 01:58, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Viet Nam and Vietnam are the same thing, both can be used interchangeably. 120.17.142.88 (talk) 02:27, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

References

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 June 2022

Turkey has changed its name into Turkiye, all related words should be edited into Turkiye. 119.246.129.158 (talk) 13:41, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: This is actually a controversial edit, so you'll need to discuss first with other editors. Please open a new section here and start a discussion. See discussions above. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:46, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Update correct name of the Country as - Türkiye

Officially confirmed and registered with the U.N 49.184.213.79 (talk) 00:53, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

No. It doesn't matter how many countries call it Türkiye or what its official name is. Wikipedia adheres to the common name in the present and does not care about Erdogan. Seloloving (talk) 01:54, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

What is your problem with the President of Türkiye? X2 31.223.48.151 (talk) 02:28, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Your knowledge about Türkiye and Turkish history is 0. 120.17.142.88 (talk) 02:33, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

SUPPORT Yes, thank you very much. 120.17.142.88 (talk) 02:30, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

SUPPORT Turkiye is now the country's name. Whether we support Erdogan or not, that is the country's official name. There is no argument here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 106.69.133.6 (talk) 06:01, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia's agreed policy for situations like this can be found at WP:NAMECHANGES. Basically, article titles are usually determined by the name used by reliable sources. Because the country has only just been renamed, most recent coverage uses the name Turkey. This may change, and if that happens, the article will be renamed. However, it may take a while. For instance, when Swaziland was renamed eSwatini, the article wasn't moved until several months later. I suspect this case will be similar.

Also, let up with the personal attacks. YttriumShrew (talk) 03:46, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Thank you. Kiwis always make reasonable and respectable comments on the Internet. Respect to New Zealand. 120.17.142.88 (talk) 03:58, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

The only way the article will be renamed is if a consensus to do so is reached at a requested move. If anybody feels that there is a realistic chance of such a request gaining enough support they should initiate that process, although I doubt it would at this stage. Fornleier (talk) 04:47, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

It appears as though Huff Post[3] has reported that the name change has been effective from the minute they submitted the paper. Fbifriday (talk) 04:58, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

13th section about the same thing. People, read the talk page! Initiate Requested move then. But I am confident it is a lost case. For now and years to come. But in some shape and form it might be inserted to lead section, although it was also discussed recently - but now there's that change that it is official ("UN official").Chrz (talk) 06:16, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

I think it will catch. The whole country/poultry angle is confusing. Using Turkiye simplifies writing because you don't need to clarify you aren't referring to the bird. --StellarNerd (talk) 06:18, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

And what is the correct pronunciation of the new word? We do not know and yet we think it will end the confusion? Or is it [ˈtyɾcije], same as Turkish pronunciation? And isn't it confusing that adjective will still be Turkish? Chrz (talk) 06:23, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

The pronunciation is easy. Both Türkiye and Turkey are pronounced similarly, but Türkiye has an extra syllable at the end — pronounced "yay". That's it: "tuh·kee·yay". I am not Turkish, but I can easily pronounce that word without any problem.

As for the adjective, I propose Türkiyen. 120.17.142.88 (talk) 07:26, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

You say the pronunciation is easy, then you get it wrong. Türkiye is to be pronounced exactly as it is pronounced in Turkish. So that means [tyɾcije].

Of course, unless the Turkish government is somehow going to force billions of people to take Turkish lessons, they're not going to get their way on that. The only monoglot English speakers who will pronounce [tyɾcije] correctly are academic linguists. But given that there is no significant usage in English it's the only thing we can go on.

Also worth mentioning is that the i in Türkiye is a Turkish dotted i, not the normal Latin i. Thus, as seen on the website of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the correct all-caps form is theoretically TÜRKİYE, not TÜRKIYE. Again, chances of the Turkish government getting their way on that are basically zero, but it is the only thing we have to go on at the moment since there is no significant usage in English. Kahastok talk 08:11, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Much as I personally prefer the country to be called Türkiye, we do need to follow WP policy on conventional/most commonly used names. Just be patient and wait a few months to see if this name catches on in other media (one comparison I can think of is the old Kiev/Kyiv dispute that's since been more or less settled). If it does, then by all means, change it to the new name. Yekshemesh (talk) 07:53, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

SUPPORT The country have changed their name at the UN, we should respect their right to do so. Felixsv7 (talk) 09:14, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

• Support: I don't believe WP:COMMONNAME applies. I will elaborate at a later time. HandsomeBoy (talk) 10:54, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

• Comment These "support" votes are irrelevant. There was just a Request for Comment above not 2 months ago, where the consensus was to retain the current name per WP:COMMONNAME, this small discussion is not going to override that. Someone can initiate a new RFC if they like, but it will likely be fruitless. ValarianB (talk) 12:08, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
  • Two months ago, the UN had not recognized the new name of the country as Türkiye. Turkey is not a "common name" - it is now, as of today, simply an incorrect name. This is analogous to when Caitlyn Jenner changed her name from Bruce. The day before that change, Bruce Jenner was the correct name for the article. The day that she announced her new name, Caitlyn Jenner was the correct name. It's the same thing here. --B (talk) 12:31, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

  Naming a country is a choice, A or B. A trans person does not "choose" to be trans, any more than a gay person "chooses" to be attracted to the same sex. The suggestion otherwise is steeped in bigotry and transphobia. ValarianB (talk) 12:38, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

  They don't "choose" to be trans - they do, however, "choose" a new name. --B (talk) 12:39, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

  Still not an appropriate comparison. Be better. ValarianB (talk) 12:41, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

• Support: Aside from the very much official and top level nature of these renaming, it usefully finally resolves the issue of having "Turkey" as an incredibly stupid homonym meaning both a country and Xmas dinner. Good riddance. A welcome disambiguation - also incidentally part of the official motive for the renaming. The switch began weeks ago in some media sources. Iskandar323 (talk) 15:47, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

References

"Turkey" should retain in use

Despite the name change, "Turkey" will continue to be in use. 5.53.202.113 (talk) 15:14, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Why? Quellenbrunnen (talk) 18:46, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Oppose

Bringing up examples such as Swazilandia doesn't really make sense. That's a country that has barely 50+ years of History. However, Turkey is deeply rooted in the rest of the world's History and its land, by then ruled by the Ottoman Empire, has been known as the land of the Turks since the 14th century. The mere impulse of an autocrat, accepted or not by the UN, can't change overnight the obvious weight that the term Turkey bares through time. 79.148.4.32 (talk) 17:50, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Please do cast your vote in Requested move 3 June 2022 Nozdref (talk) 19:05, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Name Turkiye

The Turkic name, Turkiye has been officially recognised in the UN. So, now the argument has ended on that matter.

However, some people are saying to follow the Ivory Coast analogy and keep references to the old/English name, Turkey, in some places.

However, I think since many countries have are referred by their actual name, instead of the old/English name, like Eswatini, shouldn't Turkiye habe the right to too have their name be mentioned as they want?

What do you all think? GucciNuzayer (talk) 17:30, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

See WP:COMMONNAME. All depends whether English-language sources use it or stick with Turkey. I think it’s unlikely they’ll chanhge but only time will tell. DeCausa (talk) 17:33, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

So why you pushed variant with Türkiye in LEDE?! My option was better, following an example and analogy of Ivory Coast. Talk:Turkey#RfC_on_the_official_name_of_the_country_in_the_lede did not even consider the option to follow similar cases already existing on Wikipedia. Chrz (talk) 18:57, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

The actual, modern name of this country in English is Turkey, and will remain so until and unless usage by English-speakers changes. Turkish government decisions are irrelevant to this. Kahastok talk 17:48, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Do you mean like Peking and Bombay? Or how about Burma, Rhodesia, Gold Coast? Oh wait! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C8:3D0A:3301:F4CB:2609:D8A8:1E11 (talk) 19:10, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

In every single one of those cases, usage by ordinary English speakers changed. Can you provide evidence that English speakers in the real world - as opposed to the UN or the Turkish government - have started using Türkiye instead of Turkey? Kahastok talk 19:22, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Well, this source used it for the title: "Lithuania signs deal with Türkiye to purchase Bayraktar drone for Ukraine" which has nothing to do with the name. --StellarNerd (talk) 19:47, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

I guess the question is if english speakers have already adopted the new world into their conversations, at the moment it's difficult to differentiate between long-term adoption and latest fashion. 89.242.18.154 (talk) 19:56, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

So you can find a single article in a single source from a non-English-speaking country. Meanwhile, I can demonstrate that Turkey is dominant over Türkiye in Google searches in the last week in all major English-speaking countries - for example, the US, the UK, Australia, Canada, India, South Africa... Kahastok talk 21:35, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Yes, and here’s the same Ukrainian drone news story in far more prominent and reputable English-language sources referring to Turkey not Türkiye: Independent, Bloomkberg, Reuters, and ABC Australia. In fact, there is only one news report of that story (the one StellaNerd references) that uses Türkiye compared to dozens that report the same story using Turkey. DeCausa (talk) 21:51, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

"also known as Türkiye" in LEDE - possible / when possible? Chrz (talk) 21:54, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

If and when it becomes accurate. At present Turkey is not "also known as Türkiye" in English in any sense worth mentioning. Kahastok talk 22:01, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

"rarely Türkiye" then. At least something. Chrz (talk) 06:11, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

The word Türkiye already appears twice in the first sentence. Adding it a third time amounts to clutter at this point. DeCausa (talk) 06:47, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

It appears once or zero times, according to current state of edit war. Now it says "Turkey, officially the Republic of Türkiye". I don't consider names in ( ) because those are Turkish names as clearly stated and we are dealing with English names. Chrz (talk) 16:30, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Ok but they want their name like that change it to "Türkiye" the United Nations approved it just agree. Acidois (talk) 22:51, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

There are:

• official short name - you should copy it from some authority (UN, US department of state)... not translate it directly word by word from foreign language
• official long name - political - dtto
• common name - how it is known generally (usually the same as official short name)

LEDE now lacks several of those names and slightly misleads with that ", officially the", more precise would be ", formally the" since typically a country has 2 OFFICIAL names - short and long. Chrz (talk) 20:29, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

No there aren’t. This is just your own ideas aka WP:OR DeCausa (talk) 20:39, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

If someone states that something is official, it must be stated according to what authority it is official. Otherwise it is just a name used by a lot of sources but it does not make it official. Geographical and political names being my construct? Sure sure :D Chrz (talk) 21:13, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

What you’ve written is incoherent. DeCausa (talk) 21:17, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

No. Chrz (talk) 21:30, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

• There is another thing to consider here. With the current Turkey there is ambiguity. When you say "I hate Turkey", are you a bigot? A vegan? Someone who doesn't like Thanksgiving? With Turkiye there is no need to make clear which Turkey noun you are referring to. --StellarNerd (talk) 06:16, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

That's an argument for why the common name could/should change, not for whether it has changed to the point that it should be adopted here. 83.85.75.5 (talk) 07:21, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Except most English-speakers won’t know what you’re referring to at all because Türkiye is not used in the English-speaking world. When and if it becomes used that will change. DeCausa (talk) 06:50, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Strong support changing the article name to Turkiye

1. The country is called Turkiye, so why should we call them anything else? Using outdated terminology just because it’s the “common name” isn’t very good for a site calling itself an encyclopaedia

2. Whenever a trans celebrity changes their name, their article is renamed the same day. How is this any different? Turkey is a deadname. 2.100.192.236 (talk) 00:32, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

Name change of Turkey

Hello, in the name Türkiye is the problem that "ü" is not in English alphabet. And my idea is we can use something like Turkia or Turkiye. --TayfunEt. (talk) 16:32, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

No, Turkey was well aware of the risk but demanded ü anyway. We can't half-satisfy Turkey's wishes. A lot of sources do say "Turkiye" in their coverage about the renaming. It only shows how problematic wish it is. Those who write about Erdogan (not Erdoğan) will also probably strip ¨ from the new name of Turkey. Chrz (talk) 16:41, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Well, most accentuations in other languages are simply removed when transliterated into English. The same should occur, and will likely occur, here. 131552A (talk) 17:33, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

I disagree, just like with some artists' names, the ü should remain in English aswell, as per Türkish request ImStevan (talk) 16:36, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

The Republic of Côte d'Ivoire also uses an accent not originally native to English, so if it stays in the Côte d'Ivoire it should also stay in the word Türkiye. --2A01:C23:5D03:3E00:21F5:5F06:8DB3:50BD (talk) 19:32, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Düsseldorf geographical name. Merriam-Webster: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/D%C3%BCsseldorf 95.70.244.169 (talk) 23:26, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 June 2022

change Turkey to Türkiye Boțoacă (talk) 14:13, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

 Not done ..see ongoing talks aboveMoxy- 14:15, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

"Republic of Türkiye" has been registered

See UNTERM--Mike Rohsopht (talk) 14:30, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Done, mentioned it in the lede. Khestwol (talk) 09:48, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Yes Brkysmskaks (talk) 15:15, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 June 2022 (2)

Just dropping in to say that I saw this sentence in the antiquity section;

"For several centuries prior to the great Persian invasion of Greece, perhaps the very greatest and wealthiest city of the Greek world was Miletus and founded more colonies than any other Greek city.[58] particularly in the Black Sea region."

and I have three issues with it:

• "perhaps the very greatest" is worded like it is speculation, as if it were saying "it might have been the greatest city but we do not know for sure".
• The "and" following "Miletus" makes the sentence awkward, I believe it should be replaced by a comma and a "which" instead.
• The period before the reference divides the sentence in two, making the last part of it sound awkward grammatically.

I believe that's all. Do-Droppy (talk) 14:30, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

I have made some of the simple grammar changes. Rollidan (talk) 15:24, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

Come on, Wikipedia cannot ignore the decision of the united nations and say that it is not important for us. Brkysmskaks (talk) 16:06, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

This is not "ignoring" the issue, this is pointing out a grammatical issue on the article and asking for it to be fixed. I don't know what else you'd want me to say. Do-Droppy (talk) 16:58, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

United Nations officially recognises Turkey’s change of name

The United Nations has officially changed Turkey’s name to the “Republic of Turkiye”. The UN Secrerary-General stated that the change of name occured the moment it received a letter from the Turkish Foreign Ministry requesting the change.

International protocol now requires all Countries to refer to Turkey as the Republic of Turkiye. 202.142.38.119 (talk) 18:04, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia does not care about international protocol or what the Turkish president says. Erdogan has no power here. Seloloving (talk) 01:49, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

What is your problem with the President of Türkiye? X1 31.223.48.151 (talk) 02:29, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

What the fuck? That's the actual name. Elgatoisacat (talk) 03:15, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Not in the English language it isn't. English doesn't have an equivalent of the Academie Francaise so there is no actual name other than what dominates in everyday use by regular English, media, academics, etc. 2A01:4B00:84C2:9400:541:76B6:5B80:144D (talk) 21:59, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Turkey has officially changed its English name to Türkiye

As a friend of Türkiye, I just want to announce to the world that Turkey has become a historical name. The United Nations has accepted the request lodged by the Turkish Foreign Minister to change Turkey's name to Türkiye.

Link:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/06/02/turkey-turkiye-erdogan-united-nations-un/

So, no more Turkey. I don't know how long would it takes for those people who are as stubborn as a turkey to accept this reality, but eventually this article must be renamed Türkiye. 120.17.142.88 (talk) 23:32, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

You will have to wait for it to be the common name. Until then, this article will remain at Turkey. Czechia has likewise not gained international recognition, with most sources still referring to it as the Czech Republic. This transitional process will probably take a few years. Seloloving (talk) 01:47, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Inappropriate example used. Czechia is the short form of the Czech Republic, just like France is the short form of the French Republic. Both names would be fine as they are literally the same entity. For Türkiye, Turkey is an unfavourite historical name now, they don't want anything to do with it anymore, so people should adopt the new name asap. 120.17.142.88 (talk) 01:55, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Then you will have to wait a few years. Turkey is still the common name. Seloloving (talk) 01:56, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Tuck, tuck, errrrr.....tuck, errrrr...tuck, tuck, tuck, errrrr, tuck. 120.17.142.88 (talk) 02:18, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

counterpoint: no one waited around to stop referring to Eswatini as "Swaziland" 108.18.116.121 (talk) 05:50, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Two things helped Eswatini: 1) relatively unknown country is easier to rename 2) white guilt. Chrz (talk) 06:20, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

The "white guilt" comment was ignorant and unnecessary, to say the least! 2A01:4B00:84C2:9400:541:76B6:5B80:144D (talk) 22:01, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Aftermath of colonialism then. So... Chrz (talk) 22:08, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Czechia isn't the short form of Czechia, it's the actual name. But yes, as Chrz notes, it was easier with eSwatini because the country is relatively unknown and therefore there weren't a great deal of otherwise uninterested wikipedians ignoring the fact that even though the name might not be used in the US it is used in Europe. There is clearly a lot of interest in moving page, and it's a relatively easy process to start this, as described clearly on Wikipedia:Requested moves/Controversial. Would suggest that someone particularly interested in the topic does so :) Hentheden (talk) 09:46, 3 June 2022 (UTC)