Jump to content

Talk:Trussonomics

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Brexit denialism as a factor in the economic downturn

[edit]

Re - "which aimed to counter a downturn in the economy of the United Kingdom and the cost of living crisis caused by factors including the COVID-19 pandemic and the Russian invasion of Ukraine earlier that year."

Brexit should be mentioned as an additional contemporary factor alongside those existed 2 that are stated - credible sources citing all 3 factors should be plenty. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.99.210.174 (talk) 18:39, 29 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed merge with Liz Truss#Economics

[edit]

This article is a stub, concerned with the economic policy of a prime minister who is on track to be have the the shortest tenure in UK history. Unlike an "name-onomics" article like Reaganomics, which concerns a political leader who served two terms and had a significant impact on his country's economy, Truss is unlikely to have the level of coverage or analysis necessary over her economic impact. As such, I feel that Trussonomics is likely to remain a permastub, and should instead be merged into the main article.

My specific proposal is that the contents here are merged into Liz Truss#Economics, and that Trussonomics be remade as a redirect to that section. aismallard (talk) 00:13, 21 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@84.70.65.63, UltrasonicMadness, Ingenuity, Narky Blert, and Rodney Baggins: notifying since you have made edits to the article in question. aismallard (talk) 00:19, 21 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

[edit]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
The result of this discussion was merge with a greater than 2-to-1 ratio in favor. There was some discussion of the merge target, and Premiership of Liz Truss is the most appropriate, with some duplication already present. Reywas92Talk 20:17, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait. If it becomes a niche idea which gains traction in the future only with a small minority, like Communism in the United States, then I could see for a merger. Her tenure was short, but it's best sought that we wait this out before we perform what seems to be a WP:CRYSTALBALL merge. InvadingInvader (talk) 03:09, 21 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Agree Wait - this merge sounds WP:CRYSTALBALL-y Newystats (talk) 03:18, 21 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Agree. The policies could continue under the next PM. DecafPotato (talk) 17:02, 21 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It's an American idea see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaganomics, Voodoo economics (George Bush Snr's description of Reaganomics) redriects to Reaganomics 90.250.8.34 (talk) 03:37, 1 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, I'm switching this to a weak oppose per @Narky Blert. The article's current state isn't great, but upon further consideration it seems to be a case of WP:NEXIST. DecafPotato (talk) 02:52, 21 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
For the record, if this does end up being merged, I have a *strong opposition to Liz Truss being the target. The article on her Premiership, the Government Crisis, the Mini-budget, or the Economy of the UK article all work better. Despite the name, these policies are beyond Truss's reach, and will likely continue under the new PM. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DecafPotato (talk • contribs) 14:46, 21 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose merge. The article as I created it has 7 references, from 3 different (and major) English-language newspapers, all from the first page of a Google search. All 7 include "Trussonomics" in their titles. It wasn't Liz Truss who knocked 4% off the value of the pound within about 4 hours (definitely a significant impact on the UK's economy) - it was Trussonomics, as proposed to be implemented by Kwasi Kwarteng, which resulted in first his and then her downfall.
Google hits aren't everything, but there are 1.7M of them. A quick search easily turned up several articles in French, as just one language other than English, specifically about Trussonomics (1, 2, 3).
There's nothing wrong with WP:PERMASTUBs. The test is whether WP:N is met. Narky Blert (talk) 01:59, 21 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Changing my vote to strong oppose. I still agree with my previous comment, but would like to add that the page has been greatly expanded since many users here cast their votes, and, as such, the main reasoning behind the proposed merger, that being that the "article is a stub" and is "likely to remain a permastub [that] should instead be merged into the main article", is no longer the case. Willsteve2000 (talk) 23:48, 23 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

*Merge with 2022 mini-budget it is far more important over there — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2006toyotacorrola (talk • contribs) 10:11, 21 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Some of the content, if a merger takes place, might also find a home at September 2022 United Kingdom mini-budget if not already mentioned there. I do not think that I recommend immediate deletion of the article, but rather, I think I'd recommend turning it into a redirect without deletion of its edit history so that editors can see what information had existed in this article in order to inform edits elsewhere. SecretName101 (talk) 02:56, 11 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support merge Given the record-breaking brevity of the office junior's spell in office, I cannot see how the Trussonomics article is likely to gain any more significant coverage, and feel that a merge to the section on her economic policy is wholly appropriate.TheLongTone (talk) 13:08, 15 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose merge Trussonomics is the main reason for her downfall, if it were merged to have all the information in the article the section would be overlong: besides, it's not a stub article anymore. Tim O'Doherty (talk) 13:54, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose merge Keep them separate so people can actually read about it instead of bogging down a single section with it. Trillfendi (talk) 23:42, 28 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support merge, this article could use with some copy editing as well, but also does not need its own stand alone article, but would better serve the reader as a blurb on the economics page in the best section deemed best.

References

  1. ^ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premiership_of_Liz_Truss
  2. ^ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_2022_United_Kingdom_government_crisis
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Comments

[edit]

NOTE an earlier discussion at Talk:Liz Truss#Trussonomics indicated that "Trussonoics" should not point to Liz Truss, instead it should go to either Premiership of Liz Truss or September 2022 United Kingdom mini-budget. -- 65.92.247.226 (talk) 04:09, 22 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I will say that "Trussonomics" is more intimately linked with her premiership, since it was why she was selected as PM and why she resigned when it was reverted. And the details of Trussonomics is part of the September 2022 minibudget, where she and Kwasi Kwarteng expounded the details of Trussonomics in the budget -- 65.92.247.226 (talk) 04:09, 22 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree. Her ideology predates her premiership, which is only the brief period when she and Kwarteng attempted to put it into effect. Don't forget that Parliament never approved their mini-budget sorry special fiscal operation. The real solution is to merge the premiership into this article too, since she delivered nothing except to drag the national reputation for economic competence even further into the more, required the BoE to print another £15bn, cost the BT pension fund £11bn in the gilt firesale etc etc. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 10:47, 24 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• SUPPORT: article is of insufficient importance to stand on its own. Is every political leader's economic policy now to be named after them? Billsmith60 (talk) 22:31, 30 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

What ideology?

[edit]

The sentence "its introduction was hailed by long-term proponents of the ideology" hardly makes sense with a neologism related solely to her premiership. The 'hailers' were presumably proponents of whatever ideology 'Trussonomics' is a synonym/amalgam of, but I didn't want to decide what that was and some of the sources I can't read ($$). Pincrete (talk) 16:40, 21 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

'Trussonomics' is the application of previously-existing ideologies, primarily trickle-down economics, to the current UK economy. DecafPotato (talk) 16:57, 21 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Its proponents like to call it supply-side economics. While "supply-side" is recognised as a valid concept in economics (xref "supply and demand"), "supply-side economics" has no credence in serious economics and has been demonstrated repeatedly to be baseless.[1] It is the economics equivalent of pseudo-science: repeated assertion that ignores any falsifying evidence. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 18:57, 21 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]


References

  1. ^ Most recently, Hope, David; Limberg, Julian (April 2022). "The economic consequences of major tax cuts for the rich". Socio-Economic Review. 20 (2): 539–559. doi:10.1093/ser/mwab061. Abstract: The last 50 years has seen a dramatic decline in taxes on the rich across the advanced democracies. There is still fervent debate in both political and academic circles, however, about the economic consequences of this sweeping change in tax policy. This article contributes to this debate by utilizing a newly constructed indicator of taxes on the rich to identify all instances of major tax reductions on the rich in 18 Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) countries between 1965 and 2015. We then estimate the average effects of these major tax reforms on key macroeconomic aggregates. We find tax cuts for the rich lead to higher income inequality in both the short- and medium-term. In contrast, such reforms do not have any significant effect on economic growth or unemployment. Our results therefore provide strong evidence against the influential political–economic idea that tax cuts for the rich 'trickle down' to boost the wider economy.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Trussonomics&oldid=1144096614"