Jump to content

Talk:Tripartite Struggle

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pratihara were gurjar not rajput.

[edit]

Pratihara were gurjar not rajput 2409:4056:EB7:57BA:C99E:F5D4:6CA9:45B8 (talk) 04:57, 10 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

pratihara were Rajputs 103.167.194.53 (talk) 18:47, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:07, 5 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Victory

[edit]

@Utcursch: While the article has this line -> "This tripartite struggle for Kannauj lingered for almost two centuries and ultimately ended in favour of the Gurjara-Pratihara" since this edit of 2012, the source [1] in its page 283 specifically writes : "Rastrakuta achieved a complete truimph". Please see. I have for now cn tagged that particular line. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 16:21, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Fylindfotberserk: I haven't looked at the source in detail, but if that's what it says, just go ahead and update the article with correct information. utcursch | talk 15:57, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Article contents

[edit]

The article should include relevant information on the dynasties involved in the struggle, with the Occupation of Kannauj by Dharmapala, which started it, to the conquest by Mihir Bhoja, which ended the struggle. The view of Historians should go after the main body. weakening of the Rashtrakuta dynasty should come after the triumph of Mihir Bhoja following the historical timeline.Maglorbd (talk) 09:37, 29 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nagabhata II and Pala

[edit]

Some of the sources used identify Pala rule over Kannauj lasted during the reign of Dharmapala, Devpala and his two sons, and Mihir Bhoja, son of Nagabhata II occupied Kanauj after 865.. Nagabhata II defeated Dharmapala at Mungyar, only to be defeadted by Govinda III and lose his empire. The new sources are used says Nagabhata retook Kannauj from Dharmapala in 816. Dharmapala died in 810CE after a rule of 40 years. It was Mihir Bhoja who reconquered Kannauj. Two sources are giving different dates on Nagabhata II victory. Majority says both Vatsaraja and Nagabhata II defeated Dharmapala, who was rescued by Dhruva and Govinda. Dharmapala and his son Devapala was overlord of Kannauj until Mihir Bhoja finally occupied it from Narayanpala. There is no way to reconcile the dates, but the short history of Delhi sultanate does not mention a primary source, unlike the other books.A Short History of the Sultanate of Delhi. by Syed Moinul Haq.simply states in p. 15 that Nagbhata II defeated Dharmapala in 816CE. No primary source given. Rima Hooja's book has factual errors, like in p189 it is stated That Pratihara King Mahendrapala I ruled Bengal up to Paharpur. However, a copper plate found in 1987 identifies Mahendrapala astheson of Devapala,notthePratihara king (Debala Mitra; Gouriswar Bhattacharya (1991). Akṣayanīvī: Essays Presented to Dr. Debala Mitra in Admiration of Her Scholarly Contributions. Sri Satguru Publications. ISBN 978-81-7030-275-9) Thewriter, writing in 2006, is not aware of this. She also does not quote any primary sources for dating Nagabhata II campaign at 816 CE and ignores the existing historical text. Maglorbd (talk) 08:01, 26 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Some observations on the article

[edit]

Hello @PadFoot2008 here are my observations from what you had commented on this article on your talk page.

Vatsaraja conquering Bengal

[edit]

“Vatsaraja proceeded to invade Bengal. His vassal, Durlabharaja I, the king of Sambhar pursued the forces of the king of Gauda and defeated Dharmapala.” This is based on this single primary source, two lines: Indian historical Quarterly Vol 14 p844. Most scholars do not agree with this as no other claim/inscription has been found.

If this is used to state that Vatsaraja invaded Bengal, please consider the alternate opinions of several scholars who think the battle was fought in the Gangtic Doab:

History of Ancient Bengal, p102 battle in doab

VD Mahajan sums this up the best in “Ancient India” in the 2018 reprint -p487 states it is not possible to determine if Vatsaraja actually invaded Bengal, the battle may have been fought in Doab.

So if the article includes that Vatsaraja might have invaded Bengal, it should also present the opinion that he might have Dharmapala in the Doab – NPOV and same weight. I shIould point out that some scholars think the empire of Devapala stretched from Assam to the east to Kamboja to the west, Himalaya to the north and the Vindhya mountains to the south . This means Kannauj was under his control.

Nagabhatta II and Kannauj

[edit]

The Article Version: • Nagabhata II defeated by Govinda III (r. 793–814). Govinda then conquered Malwa, marched north, Chakrayudha and Dharmapala submitted. • Govinda died in 814 CE. In 816, Nagabhata II invaded the Doab, and defeated king Chakrayudha and proclaimed himself the King of Kannauj, establishing Kannauj as the Pratiharan capital., • Nagabhata and allies, in the Battle of Monghyr, defeated those of Dharmapala. This version is supported by some scholars, including: Ram Shankar Tripati, in History of Kannauj until the Muslim conquest, supports this view. p232 –p235

Alternate version hinges on the year Dharmapala died: To understand this, please keep track of the following facts: • Nagabhatta II first attacked Chakrayuadha, then beat Dharmapala at Monghyr. This is attested through inscriptions. • Nagabhatta II occupied Kannauj in 816 CE, and ruled until 833 CE. Also attested through inscriptions. • The northern campaign of Govinda III is dated 804-806 CE. Attested through inscriptions dated 808 CE.

Nagabhatta II was therefore defeated by Govinda III before 806 CE.

• Dharmapala submitted to Govinda III, then recovered his empire.[ https://www.google.com.bd/books/edition/Ancient_India/XNxiN5tzKOgC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Devapala+Himalaya&pg=PA285&printsec=frontcover]

• The date of death of Dharmapala is not exactly known. From the Wikipedia article, RC Majumdar suggested 810 CE, DC Sircar gives 812 CE, AM Chowdhury 821 CE and BP Sinha 820 CE. While, D.K Ganguly, in “Ancient India, History and Archaeology” p41, puts Dharmapala’s death at 806 CE.[Ganguly 806 CE

• Dharmapala was married to a Rashtrakua princess, Aiding a relative may have also motivated Govinda III.

If Dharmapala had died between 806 – 815 CE, Nagabhatta could not have fought him at the battle at Monghyr after taking Kannauj in 816 CE. The alternate version of Nagabhata and Kannauj as per opinion of some scholars:

• Nagabhata II marched north defeats Chakrayudha, takes Kannauj. Dharmapala defeated at Monghyr.

• Govinda III marches north, defeats Nagabhatta near Gwalior, Nagabhatta retires to Gurjardesa. Chakrayudha and Dharmapala submit to Govinda. • Govinda III takes Lata and Malwa to guard against Gurjaras. • Kannauj subordinate to Pala Kingdom.

As stated, Govinda III’s expedition was before 808 CE, probably 806 CE.

These sources state Govinda III defeated Nagabhata II after Nagabhatta II had defeated Dharmapala at Monghyr:

Dharmapala probably died between 810 -815 CE according to some scholars. This is how the next scenario unfolds: After the death of Dharmapala, it is possible his son Tribhubanpala became King, only to be deposed by Devapala arnond 812-15. p41 This would cause instability in the pala kingdom.

• Govinda died in 814 CE, disorder in the Rashkuta domain – Nagabhatta II takes advantage.

• Nagabhata II took Kannauj in 816 CE, after the death of Dharmapala from Devapala. He assumes Imperial titles. *p113 p233 assuming titles after taking Kannauj

What happened next is not clear, but supports your statement” Besides I've not heard of any wars between Devapala and Nagabhata II from any historian before.” This may be because: • Devapala chose not to confront Nagabhatta over Kannauj. *p55 Devapala avoiding confrontation • Nagabhatta marched east, but was forced back by Devapala, who does not attack Kannauj. p287 • Nagabhatta ignores Devapala and campaigns in Central India. p235expansion in Malwa, Anarta, Matsya [2] states Devapala fought three generations of Pratihara kings – Nagabhatta II, Rambhadra and Bhoja I.

Devapala taking Kannauj

[edit]

Reasons Scholars think Devapala managed to conquer Kannauj are: The empire under Rambhadra fragmented, provinces had breaken away. The boundary was of his kingdom was Gwalior. The regions north of Gwalior were lost, which includes Kannauj.

• The empire was overrun by enemy. This was assumed to be Palas as the Rashtrakutas were busy with civil war.

• Devapala had advanced up to Vindya, Rambhadra weak to resist him. Devapala controlled territory between Himalaya and Vindhya, which included Kannauj. Mihir Bhoja’s conquest was temporary. Glory That was Gurjaradesa p 84. [https://archive.org/details/dli.bengal.10689.13287/page/n163/mode/2up p114 Mihir Bhoja’s conquest of Kannauj temporary. claimed supremacy from Himalaya to Vindya range – Kannauj is in the middle of this area. Please let me know your observations. While Majority scholar opinions should be represented, to balance off and avoid bias, minority opinions should be included. Case in point, majority scholars think of this as a tripartite struggle, however, adding the opinion o DC Sircar, which reporesents a minority opinion, has made the article more interesting.Maglorbd (talk) 13:24, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Tripartite_Struggle&oldid=1254536179"