Talk:Trigun/Archive 1

Archive 1

Yes, Trigun has ended in Japan

WTF is this anon doing editing to claim Trigun hasn't ended in Japan? There's proof it has! *throws stuff at anon*

Included relationship between Wolfwood and Vash

Unlike the previous edits on yaoi fandom and yaoi relationships, this is entirely verifiable content from the manga universe and highlights something that could be of interest both to fans inside the fandom and to people exploring the fandom from the outside, especially with its interplay with the depiction of alternate sexuality that was Elendira the Crimsonnail's existence. While this isn't THAT important, it is an interesting note on the manga and something worth being a part of the discussion on it. ~SeventhHaido 11:13, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Ok shouldn't all mention of hentai be in its own little area away from anything actualy related to trigun. Mentioning a fanfic is fine but NOT THAT KIND OF FANFIC! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.14.203.32 (talk) 17:40, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

More info of the characters and series

I haven't read Trigun and I only saw the anime once years ago (and didn't watch very carefully). I was interested in remembering how the story flowed, and who the characters are.. This entry does not provide it. It is more akin to fanpage of Trigun, where the reader is expected to know both the anime and manga by heart; observe how the article is quite long, but still fails to tell WHO (or what) VASH is, what exactly are his abilities (Angel arm? WTF is Angel Arm?), what they are based to etc. I would be interested to know what is the plot of manga (brief synopsis of the plot). Instead, you go straight to "who the author is" "how the author acted to" and then "differences between the versions", which should be last moment additions, not the meat of the article, as it is now. -iJusten

~WEAPONARY~ The entire "Weaponary" part is a joke. The part about the Metaba Autorevolver is speculative, and poorly supported. THe Angel arm is not a giant "Lazer"(laser?) gun, as can be seen when it interacts with Knives' (when the two energy streams meet; lasers dont interact like that). Furthormore, the author cites a webpage about the metaba to support their assesment that the revolver can fuse with vash's arm and create a giant lazer weapon that can put a whole in the moon. There is no support for the claim that milly's gun is modeled after a mini gun. Also, its not a "cross gun", its a Cross Punisher. THE ENTIRE PIECE READS AS IF IT IS WRITTEN BY A GUN AFICIONADO, WHO HASNT EVEN SEEN TRIGUN. IT SHOULD ALL BE SCRAPED —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.162.153.18 (talk) 03:09, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Manga vs. Anime diffs

Is anyone going to try and cover the manga version of Trigun? Or at least create a 'differences' section and list things? I'm not an expert of the manga by any means, but I do know a few differences:

• -Manga begins much later than the series (in fact, it begins at around episode 5 of the series)
• -Vash loses his mechanical arm during the fight with Monev the Gale and doesn't get it back until after he puts a hole on the moon.
• -The second Gung-ho Guns was E.G. Mine, who Vash fought before Dominique.
• -Dominique was the third and she commited suicide (I believe, someone has to double check this) after losing to Vash.

yes she did go splat at the bottom of the building they fight at in vo.2

• -It's made clear fairly early on that Wolfwood is a Gung-ho Gun when he goes up to a chapel and joins the remaining group.
• -Knives emerges from the plant he was in to heal his body and personally causes Vash to activate his Angel Arm, not Legato.
• -Vash's "Home" (the ship in the sky in the anime) is not in the sky in the manga. It's in a "sea of sand" (I'm guessing quicksand) that is only able to stay afloat because of the 'gravity plant' that is inside the ship. Also, "Doc" and Brad visit Vash in town and deliver his new coat (which looks quite different from the anime version) and new gun arm.

i don't believe its quicksand its simply very large amounts of sand rather than dry dirt and rock there is a very good reason people are hard to find int he desert especialy sandy areas the sand is blown over them by the wind and they could be burried for years That's enough to get people started.

Synopsis

Maybe it'd be better to avoid the list of the differences by creating a page summarizing the storyline of the anime and the manga. The list is confusing and very unorganized.

Categorizing the differences

I've recognized quite a lot of differences between the anime and manga, which I havn't even put down yet... so I think it would be best to have them categorized so it'll seem less sloppy. Any objections?

Deaths in the city of July

The anime, at least, suggests that nobody died, which several characters find extremely surprising, considering the devastation.

I remember that Vash spent some time 'terrorizing' the citizens of the second city to be destroyed (I forget the name), in an effort to ensure that it was deserted when he ended up facing off against Knives for the first time that he remembers.

I seem to recall a flashback sequence later that hinted at a similar thing happening shortly before the destruction of July; many people were injured, but nobody actually died. I could be wrong, as I'm pulling this from memory and don't have a convenient copy of the anime handy to double-check. --David Breakey 00:32, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)

According to the anime, Vash did not kill anyone in July. This is stated explicitly in the episode after "Hard Puncher" - the one with the vengeful plant engineer who tries to blow up a plant with Vash inside it. However, the encounter he had with Knives does not imply that he had any idea of the kind of destruction that was coming.

This is not the case in the manga - in the manga, everybody in July died from Vash's angel arm blast. Personally, I find this more belivable; I suspect that the anime writers changed this to give Vash's character the belief that he had never killed anyone. (Which, of course, sets up for that last encounter with Legato) The Digital Gabeg 00:49, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

In the anime, there's really not that much of a clear answer to the question of July. It seems to be implied that Vash's Angel Arm is seemingly incapable of killing with its radius; it can only kill with the direct beam. This is shown when the Arm is activated while he's fighting Rai-Dei the Blade. Regardless of the fact that Rai-Dei was a Gung-Ho Gun, he couldn't have possibly moved fast enough to avoid the massive orb of light. It took up a good portion of the city when it was fired. This leaves a plothole however; the blast is capable of causing damage to property, but not people. The radius destroyed July, however, the beam hit no one but Knives. Therefore, the many deaths in July were more caused by the aftermath. -- Kusanagi Hayate

The anime suggests that the arm, unless possibly manipulated or used directly, will not kill. Rather it destroyed/leveled July City and was the cause of much death and disaster after by leaving everyone exposed, resourceless, and blowing up buildings. However it did not actually kill anyone immediately (except possibly in the debris). I thought it was a fine story piece.Thegreathal 07:11, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Manga based on Anime?

I'm confused...I'm not finding any evidence that the Anime is based on the manga. If someone has time they might want to check this out. --eelozano

It is based on the manga, but as the manga was unfinished when production on the series was underway, events were changed around (as usual with manga to anime conversions) and they created an ending for the anime. --CyberSkull 23:54, 2005 Jun 3 (UTC)

Yaoi Fandom section

For the third time in 24 hours, I'm taking this section out. The information in it, frankly, is poor: The list of pairings is unneccessary, the statement that some pairings may or may not be canonical is unsupported at best, and the attempted defense of fanfiction in general really belongs on the fanfiction page.

I personally feel the Gundam Wing and Weiss Kreuz articles do a better job of addressing the yaoi fandom, and it's more relevant there than here. It's hardly worth giving its own section to; a passing mention is more than enough. --nifboy 13:43 10 March 2005

It is of note that back when the Trigun anime fandom was going strong, there was a significant amount of yaoi type fandom for Trigun in the USA (even up to the point of some girls cosplaying Vash). Perhaps that extra bit of fandom helped its sales. But I agree that unless it is properly written up, there shouldn't be its own subsection.AnimeJanai 18:06, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Reverting the split and disambig.

Hashhagen has turned this page into a disamiguation, and copied the content into Trigun Anime and Trigun Manga, see here. Though there are obviously differences between the two, I think that as these two pages are almost exact copies of each other, and as the current arrangement is deeply confusing, this should be reverted. Restructuring the article should help deal with the conflict between the two better.

• General introduction to first the manga, then the anime, and mention that differences exist
• Brief, unspoily, synopsis, common to both anime and manga
• Section with link to Trigun characters (a la Naruto characters), which can deal with the extensive bios
• Section that goes into the differences between the two at length, with spoiler tag
• Section with link to Trigun media (a la Revolutionary Girl Utena media information), which can house episode list, OST stuff, and manga volumes

If no one objects, I'll go ahead and do this soonish. Seems the best way to get a useful, bloat free, article, further suggestions welcome. --zippedmartin 14:01, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Merge with proposed changes (read: agreed). The disambig feels very awkward and, like so many other similar pages, character bios (especially of minor characters, the Gung-ho Guns in this case) seem to make up the vast majority of the article. --Nifboy 19:22, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Right, made the basic changes. Still a lot of work to do overall, but I think this format is looking quite a lot better. I've left little todo lists on the talk pages of both created sub-sections, and I think quite a lot of this main page could do with a rewrite, but I shall pause for the moment. --zippedmartin 03:23, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

Gung-Ho Chart

I decided to add a chart for the differences between manga and anime GHGs for their number and the order to which they fought Vash/Wolfwood. What do you think?

Looks good. Please remember to sign your comments (with four tildes). --ElKevbo 05:42, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Crimsonnail

Can anyone confirm the existence of this manga-exclusive Gung-Ho Gun? It seems suspect, as I've never heard mention of it anywhere, much less the Adult Swim web forums. --Razer64 07:06, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Googled "Elindira the Crimsonnail". no matches found. "Did you mean: "Elendira the Crimsonnail""? Found 79 matches. First is a blog, second is in French, and the third is a "Trigun Christmas" fanfic which references Elendira. The rest seem to be minor Trigun fansites and nearly all references to Elendira are followed by "(Manga only)". I suppose it counts as a confirmation. --Nifboy 07:27, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The question is hereby withdrawn. With the above research by Nifboy and an appearance in Trigun Maximum Volume 5, the existence of Elindira, or rather Elendira, is confirmed. --Razer64 2 July 2005 05:38 (UTC)

Infobox

I've added the infoboxes, but they need more filling out. ~ Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 23:24, 2005 August 20 (UTC)

I'm against the anime/manga infobox for the moment, as it's a giant monstrosity. I've made some suggestions on Template talk:Infobox animanga to trim it down to a sensible (and useful) size, but even so I'd question whether it's actually helpful at all in a well-written article. Generally infoboxes are useful de-stubbing tools, and encourage some checklist-fact finding, but also force a structure-template that might not fit well with every article. I'll remove it for the moment, and we can try it again when the box is shorter than two full screens (at 1024x768). --zippedmartin 23:57, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

You also have to keep in mind that we don't have separate articles for the anime and the manga, it could be trimmed easily at that point. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 00:17, 2005 August 21 (UTC)

Voice actors?

This article needs to list both the Japanese and English voice actors. There aren't nearly as many voice actors in this field as you'd think (particularly when it comes to English translations) and so it's often illuminating and interesting to be able to see what disparate characters from multiple anime are all voiced by the same person. --Cyde Weys _talk^contribs 08:38, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Good info for the Trigun characters page I'd say, if you want to start there, then the particularly relevant ones like Onosaka can be summary styled back here. --zippedmartin 04:37, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Manga section revision

The manga section of Trigun is too overly complicated in my opinion and needs to be rewritten. My main problem is the concept of trying to summarize every individual chapter from each volume. By the time it gets finished (if it ever gets finished) I doubt anyone would even bother trying to read through it. A better idea would just be to clump it all together and only summarize the individual volumes along with maybe a short description of the little mini manga always found in the back. I'm also against listing each and every difference between the manga and anime since the differences are growing exponentially with each volume. 205.188.116.204 03:55, 14 December 2005 (UTC)Duo

Yeah, I would really appreciate it since I am unable to have access to the manga, I like better the previous version of the manga version, but also, maybe it would be better to first do a general overlook of the story, detailing mayor events and then maybe little by little, expand it.(UTC)

The Six Million Dollar Man and Trigun?

There's got to be something in this article that explains the (albeit most likely superficial) similarities between the two (e.g. title, bionic arm, etc.) If there is no "source" for this, I at least wouldn't mind hearing your opinion about it on the talk page as I think there might be something to it. (Though, admittedly, I've never seen T6MDM.) --66.229.183.101 12:07, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Whats Going On in this Anime

Hi, I didn't read the manga but I did watch the anime. Although I thoroughly enjoyed it, it left me with a lot of unanswered questions. Can someone please explain to me what Vash and Knives are. All I know is that they're not human and I think they're immortal. Are they aliens? Were they genetically engineered? What are they? Also, what are those strange mystical beings that Vash and Knives are able to communicate with. You know, the beings that fixed the the power plant when it was about to explode. I think Knives mentioned them once. He said something about how humans are like bugs compared to them. Does the manga answer any of these questions? If so, please tell me. I've been scratching my head for month trying to figure this out.

Vash and Knives are both 'Plants' (not 'plant' as in vegetation, but as in 'powerplants') They are off the same species as those beings within the power plants. In the manga they are genetically engineered, the anime leaves their origin a mystery. The beings in the powerplants are capable of generating enormous amounts of energy, though not indefinitely. Humans used this ability to drain the power from them, a proces that kills the Plants in the long run. Knives therefore sees humanity as parasites, exploiting his kind, while Vash thinks humans and plants can co-exist. Hope this helps. Dizzy D 22:53, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't believe they merely create energy. In vol. 1 of trigun it says that it produces water uv rays and oxygen depending on how much energy you put into it and can even defy gravity and produce organic systems(food). Think about it are those feathers and knives's blades made of energy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.14.203.32 (talk) 17:34, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

The cat

Can someone please explain to me that black cat which seems to be around all the time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Asososocrates (talk • contribs)

Running gag? --maru (talk) contribs 17:34, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Kuroneko, A small black cat put in as a running gag and seen as a trademark. Seen very little in the manga and seen in almost every episode in the anime. Rumored to be Rem reincarnated seeing as how many people missed her, Positive to be, in the flashback episode. Though this is untrue. She was seen in the arms of one of the chyro sleep citizens. Also by the fact that when Vash kills Legato, Kuroneko repeatedly scratches at Vash's face. --Non-User 11:58 A.M. Central, 11/06/06

Agreement concernting the "Trigun Yaoi" section.

I've never disscussed anything on Wiki, so I do not know if I'm doing it right...

Personally, I don't agree that the "Trigun Yaoi" section should be merged with the main Trigun page. It's too debatable an issue within the fandom, and thus something that belongs in a "Trigun Fanfiction" article. If "Trigun Yaoi" is to be merged with with the main page, there should be a "Trigun Het" section created and also merged.

Allusions

Does anyone else see parallels between Trigun and T.S. Eliot's The Wasteland? The episode "Between the Wasteland and the Sky" got me thinking. Themes of both include people living in a spiritual and physical wasteland/desert, and the characters must learn to have faith to escape the wasteland. It also rains/they hit water at the end of both, bringing spiritual and physical relief.

Ok. I'm new to this whole discussion thing, So forgive me if i have done anything wrong, But here I go. I've read from a page, not sure if it was Wiki or not, but yes alot of trigun has elements of Wasteland in it. maybe it was the trigun art book i have. I can't quite recall, but if i find the page again i will definatly post a link/reference. Or maybe it was one of the manga's it self?

SGMT

Bounty?

I wasn't playing close attention, but the only thing I remember being called off is insuring of incidents related to Vash the Stampede, and not the bounty.Hackwrench 09:32, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

In the manga, Vash is declared a natural disaster, which invalidates the bounty on him. This is revealed at the end of the "Hard Puncher" chain of episodes, when he actually meets the girls for the first time. It's been a while since I watched the animes, but I seem to remember that there, the bounty was called off and Vash declared a disaster after the Fifth Moon incident. (when the girls were removed from their assignment to follow Vash) The Digital Gabeg 00:38, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Why would that invalidate the bounty on him? Besides, the declaration of him being a natural disaster was made by an insurance agency, not the government.Hackwrench 08:46, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

I think the only explanation is that it was the insurance agency that issued the bounty in the first place; the planet doesn't have a central government and the insurance agency has to pay billions when July is destroyed, so they issue the bounty. It's counter-productive though and they have it cancelled when Vash is declared an Act of God, because they no longer have to pay for the damages. Dizzy D 12:21, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Movie

This was apparently mistakenly placed in the article text, I'm moving it here (Stardust8212 18:19, 14 August 2006 (UTC)):

Just in the new issue of Anime Insider they have said that the movie is to be out next time some year.

It is said to be about Vash trying to fix his relashionship with knives his older brother.

--Darkdeath174 09:19, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Knives isn't older. They are twins

Vash calls Knives his older brother many times in the manga and Knives calls Vash the younger sibling. Though they may be twins one can still be older. Depending on which of the siblings exits the womb first. I would guess the same goes for them exiting their plant stasis. -Non User, 12:02 A.M., 11/07/07

Are you sure about this movie? This website said the movie was cancelled. Site may be not current though: http://www.geocities.com/sumirechan/tri-index.html

I wouldn't trust that site.. its just a geocities website, not something official Trigunmaxed 16:41, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I've been seeing all these wierd posters for the movie saying Orlando Bloom will be in it. I think it's fake.Jesusinmysock 14:52, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Disambiguation

I've made this a disambiguation, since I thought it was getting to unwieldy and gave the anime and manga their own pages. I hope you guys don't object too strenuously. Both pages need a lot of work, I think especially the anime page, which I've left with the differences section, which should probably be deleted altogether. I won't do that however, without your guys' approval. If you guys really do like it, maybe I could give it its own page, though to be honest, it smells a lot like original research. I don't know. Also, for the manga page, does anyone know if Nightow has talked about how long the series is projected to run and when he'd like to finish it? That would be good info to put up there. mosesroth 07:38, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree completley about deleting the differences section. The manga and anime are just too differnt for us to try and list. A simple explanation as to why this is would suffice (like Cyberskull did further up the page). 68.52.68.44 04:17, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I love the way wikipedia is cyclical, I guess we just have to hope that the steps forwards add up to more than the steps back. I guess I can't say anything about looking at the talk history either, as... this page's talk seems to be screwed (Edit: I fixed it). But, funny eh? Anyway as your 'own pages' was just duplication of prose, history erasing, and reduction of this to a 'trivia' dominated page, I have reversed the split again. I'd like to actually write some more proper article here, but I guess just leaving stuff to decay for a year and then being suprised by it is more amusing. --zippedmartin 09:53, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

I think changing it back was the wrong move. If the video game warrants its own page, why don't manga and anime? The plotlines have diverged so completely that any plot summary is going to feel strained. Yes, they do need more separate content, but that can be worked on. As it is, this page just feels sloppy. I'd rather not get into a revert war though. Maybe we can take a vote. mosesroth 15:20, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

VotingIsEvil. My suggestion is you create enough content (with references) to warrent two full articles, then split naturally according to summary style. The current is hardly ideal, I agree, but I don't think your fix was any more helpful for readers or editors than back when Hashhagen did the same thing. For the moment how about the overgrown Differences section being branched to List of differences between Trigun manga and anime - then there's easily enough room for proper summary back in of media and characters (which I now see has also been fragmented recently). I'll poke the anime bit in the mean time. (As the game appears to be vapourware, I imagine the article can go away at some point, and live on in a nearly-mention somewhere here.) --zippedmartin 15:35, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

You've deleted a large amount of content. Notice how the plot summary in place in this current version doesn't really describe the plot of the manga at all. If you check the old manga page it had a much more in depth plot summary. This current one is clearly based on the anime and even describes some philisophical issues that aren't all that prevalent in the manga. As for the differences section, that's original research and should be removed all together. I don't know if you've read the manga at all, but it goes in a completely different direction and the only way the content will stay applicable to both is if we bend over backward to do so. This is not necessary.mosesroth 16:13, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Reverted. The amount of deleted content I think warrants this. I'm curious what other people's opinions are. I think the amount of differences between the manga and anime alone necessitate separate pages. For a similar situation, see the Stargate page. If you guys really object to the main article being a disambiguation page, then I think the only way to go about this is to make the manga the main page and give the anime its own page. Considering the popularity of both, though, I think this is the better solution. mosesroth 08:22, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Let's compare the article from a year or so ago to the latest split, to see what was deleted exactly.

Four way compare table

Trigun	DAB	Manga	Anime
Trigun (トライガン) is a sci-fi manga series with a steampunk Wild West theme created by Yasuhiro Nightow in 1995, and adapted into a 26 episode anime series in 1998 by Madhouse...	Trigun (トライガン, Toraigan) is a sci-fi manga series with a steampunk Wild West theme created by Yasuhiro Nightow in 1995, and adapted into a 26 episode anime series in 1998 by Madhouse...	Trigun (トライガン, Toraigan) is an ongoing sci-fi manga series with a steampunk Wild West theme created by Yasuhiro Nightow in 1995...	Trigun (トライガン, Toraigan) is a sci-fi anime series with a steampunk Wild West theme, based on the ongoing manga series by Yasuhiro Nightow. It is a 26 episode anime series created in 1998 by Madhouse...
Storyline	-	Story	Story
Manga After leaving college, Yasuhiro Nightow had gone to work selling apartments...	Manga Trigun is an ongoing manga series by Yasuhiro Nightow created in 1995...	Development After leaving college, Yasuhiro Nightow had gone to work selling apartments...	-
		Publishing
Anime Trigun was created by the animation studio Madhouse in 1998 and directed by Satoshi Nishimura...	Anime Trigun is a 26 episode anime series adapted from the manga series by Madhouse in 1998...	-	Development Trigun was created by the animation studio Madhouse in 1998 and directed by Satoshi Nishimura...
	Film		Movie
Characters	-	-	Trigun Anime Voice Actors
Differences Between the Manga and the Anime	-	-	Differences Between the Manga and the Anime
Media info	Video Game	-	-
-	Trivia For unknown reasons, the anime contains fictional units of measurement for various things. The three most prominent are "iles" instead of "miles", "yarz" instead of "yards", and "double dollars ($$)" instead of "dollars ($)". In an episode of Law & Order: Criminal Intent, one of the characters wears a shirt with Vash on it. Brad, a man who lived in Vash’s "home" strongly resembles Kazuma Kuwabara from Yuyu Hakusho. In an episode of Case Closed, a character named Justin Moon, bares a striking resemblence to Vash. In the episode "Murder Machine" the first shot of the bus they travel on has Nicholas D. Wolfwood's Cross Punisher tied on top of it. This shot was used before and after he was picked up. In the manga, Wolfwood always calls Vash "Spikey," this is said to be a reference to the Man With No Name who is called "Blondie" by his partner in the classic Spaghetti western, The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly due to Trigun's Western theme.	Trivia For unknown reasons, the anime contains fictional units of measurement for various things. The three most prominent are "iles" instead of "miles", "yarz" instead of "yards", and "double dollars ($$)" instead of "dollars ($)". In an episode of 'Law & Order: Criminal Intent', one of the badguys wears a shirt with Vash on it. Brad, a man who lived in Vash’s “home” strongly resembles Kazuma Kuwabara from Yuyu Hakusho.	Trivia For unknown reasons, the anime contains fictional units of measurement for various things. The three most prominent are "iles" instead of "miles", "yarz" instead of "yards", and "double dollars ($$)" instead of "dollars ($)". In an episode of 'Law & Order: Criminal Intent', one of the badguys wears a shirt with Vash on it. Brad, a man who lived in Vash’s “home” strongly resembles Kazuma Kuwabara from Yuyu Hakusho.
References count: 7	References count: 2 (one duplicated, one from game article)	References count: 1 (retained)	References count: 6 (retained)

So, in a year what was added? Some plot summary, a list of US voice actor biographies, three trivia sections, and zero references. Seriously, you don't like the differences section for 'original research', be bold and delete it or whatever, but what 'content' are you defending the split over? It's just grand duplication. When you actually write something for the article, rather than just fragmenting others' work, you might have a case. --zippedmartin 14:13, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I think you're missing the whole point. The article as it stood, was confusing. It had a plot summary for the anime and then a plot summary of the manga confusingly jumbled together. The bottom line is, these are seperate works with seperate stories. They need separate articles. Do both articles need to be expanded? Yes. But if we keep them together, this will encourage more misinformation and confusion. As for deleting the list of differences, I'm perfectly happy to, but I wanted to hear support or disapproval here before I went ahead with it. I understand that you want to help this article, just like I do, but I think reducing the amount of content and half-heartedly restoring it to the way it was, full of links that simply redirect back to itself, is not the way to do it. The manga and the anime need seperate articles. Because this article has grown large enough for differences to become clear, so that any article about both trying to remain free of contradictions is simply going to get bogged down in that. Better for them to have separate articles that describe what each work is. mosesroth 20:26, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

There is no more 'content' in your version. Natch, nada, nul. If you're not happy with the story section, rewrite it, but keep it shortish, 'spoiler' free and common to both - a plot summary, not a damn retelling. As you've not satisfied my query, I'm restoring the article to how it was from December 5, 2001 to May 6, 2005 and from May 20, 2005 to August 19, 2006. If you want to have a debate, I suggest that Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anime and manga might be a good place to find interested parties. --zippedmartin 21:53, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Do you see exactly what you wrote? Common to both. At this point, this is completely absurd. You obviously haven't read the manga at all, but the story is completely different. Not from the halfway point, but right from the beginning of Maximum. I'm reverting again. mosesroth 22:23, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for putting the note on the wikiproject page, though you did revert again before I'd hit edit on my change to the references and addition to the anime section - one edit conflict that can't be sorted out by copying text between the two boxes... o_O'

Clearly the manga and the anime are not the same thing - Maximum didn't even till after the anime was in production, but they're plenty similar enough to have an encyclopedic plot summary that covers both. There's no requirement to narrate the events of every tank or ep here. Have a look at Excel Saga, which also has large differences between the manga and the anime adaption, and you know, it's still a pretty good article. --zippedmartin 23:07, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

It looks like you win. Godspeed. mosesroth 16:08, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

You do know this is a collaborative attempt to write an encyclopedia right, not a competition? If you accept current concensus, would have been nice for you to merge back rather than leaving it for when I got back. --zippedmartin 15:23, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

If you want a good website about the differences of the manga and anime heres a good one: http://www.geocities.com/edey32/avsm.html

This series of articles is so unorganized.

In my opinion it needs a total rebuild along the lines of Planetes, with a simple anime summary, manga summary, differences and a character list. -- The Norse 00:16, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Beatles/John Lennon references

I've spotted many references to these subjects. Vash wears those round granny style glasses (tinted yellow no less) with the "~" on their legs, a strong hint to the kind of glasses Lennon wore (maybe modernised slightly). I also remember Vash looking very similar to Lennon (when Vash is going through his "tramp" stage and his hair is long). Lennon was murdered via gun, it's rather ironic that guns and weapons feature so much in Trigun - and the effects of them always seem to have a negative effect on Vash (he'd always much rather resolve things peacefully). Also "Peace and Love" is a catchphrase Ringo Star uses a lot. There are other references there that I've probably forgotten. Does anyone agree with me? ^^ Sheepee 09:01, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

No...

• It's not surprising that guns and weapons feature prominently in any western-based genre.
• Mostly anyone growing their hair out and looking trampy is going to bear some resemblance to John Lennon.
• "Peace and Love" was kind of the theme of the Beatles era and not really Lennon-specific at all.

All you've really got to go on is the granny glasses...which isn't exclusively Lennon either. --In Defense of the Artist 01:20, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Why can't I delete this crap?

And by crap, I'm obviously refering to the "Wolfwood and Vash's relationship" and "Title" sections. Both are nothing but uncited personal opinions on their respective subjects and should not be included in the article. I've tried deleting them both on multiple occasions but I'm apparently being blocked from deleting them for whatever reason. Someone please help me out here as this nonsense needs to be taken care of ASAP.

I and many others clearly think that this speculative yaoi fandom section has no place here. Look at the user who keeps putting it back whenever someone deletes it, he clearly has an agenda and that is not NPOV at all. SeventhHaido, Keep that stuff on your slash forums, not on an encyclopedia. You can cry hate crime and homophobia all you want but it still doesn't change the fact that you're trying to wedge your own unfounded beliefs into the article. AshTM 19:24, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

The 60,000,000,000$$ Man

Well, Arx Fortis wanted proof, so here it is. There ya go, happy now?. It's not photoshopped or anything like that. I don't even HAVE photoshop! Plus, wouldn't you be able to kinda tell if it was photoshopped? ForestAngel 19:30, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Per your post on my talk page, you got this from Uncyclopedia from your buddy Spang. That's not a credible source. That site is entirely satire. So, now you've managed to upload it to mypicshare.com...congratulations...but that's not the screenshot from the original series. Are you trying to say the original series did not use Japanese? I'm not an idiot. Try again.

I have already shown you the original episode intro, as well as the screenshot from the opening credits of the series as is posted in the article. Quit beating a dead horse. ++Arx Fortis 21:38, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Arx, why don't you cut the 'tude? There's no reason to be rude. The sceencap is actually from the American release of the DVD...which is a credible source. I've uploaded it myself from my copy of the DVD. Although it is not a screenshot from the original series, it is a screenshot from the official English-language release. The original series used English only insofar as for entertainment purposes for their Japanese audience; the American release used official English translations of the original series' Japanese. It doesn't take a genius to work it out. Even though the Japanese illustrations show the dollar signs after the number, the official English-translated text shows the dollar sign before. --In Defense of the Artist 03:32, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

If you viewed any of the prior discussion on my talk page [1] and her talk page [2], you would see that ForestAngel had the "tude" long before I did (and with many other users well before me)....and those discussions were after her multiple reverts. Further, watch the name calling WP:NPA. This issue was over months ago. Why stir the pot again? ++Arx Fortis 03:50, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

I apologize for the insult. I didn't realize wikipedia was so sensitive. It really doesn't matter who had the 'tude first, there's just not any reason to insult her when she's actually presenting facts. That's why I'm stirring it up months later because she tried to present evidence and you dismissed it. I posit that the correct translation of the article, and therefore Vash's nickname is "The $$60,000,000 Man" not "The 60,000,000$$ Man". As written in proper English (evidenced by the translation of the episode name) the double-dollar sign would go before the number of dollars. In Defense of the Artist 04:17, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

1. Thanks for the edit to your comment [3]

2. I didn't insult her. My statements were about the material, not her directly.

3. You're ignoring the screenshot from the opening credits shown in the Storyline section. Placing the currency symbol after the number is not some Japanese thing that had to be corrected for the English version. The Japanese use the Yen symbol (¥) for their currency and place it before the number just like the dollar symbol for US currency. This leads me to believe there was intent to place the $$ after the number - that it was not a mistake. This is how the fictional characters in the story came to denote their currency. It is more likely that the English episode 1 intro was a mistake. It wouldn't be the first time something was lost in translation.

4. Lastly, I'm not sure what version of Trigun you got that from. The DVD set I have is also an English version and it has the other episode intro (the Japanese one). ++Arx Fortis 13:00, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Further, the image you inserted is a wide-screen image. I wasn't aware that Trigun was released in wide-screen format anywhere. Also, in this post [4], you mention to a user that you don't know what a Thomas is, nor do you realize that the name of the planet they settled on is "Gunsmoke." It seems that you're not very familiar with Trigun. ++Arx Fortis 15:54, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Wow...you're really taking this personally. Are you offended by the image? You have a lot to say, but I can't understand why having as much accurate information on the subject as possible is offensive to you. I believe that it is informative to have as much accurate information on the subject as possible. Your statement "This leads me to believe there was intent to place the $$ after the number - that it was not a mistake." is subjective, and while possibly true it would only count as speculation without a citable source. Since we are lacking a quote from the creators, showing both versions of the title screen gives the readers of wikipedia the option to come to their own conclusion. Further, I am not ignoring the screenshot from the opening credits, that's why I think both versions should be viewable on this website. It is true that i'm not an expert in Trigun, but simply by watching the first episode I can see why there would be debate on the issue and I think it's important to show all the information necessary (i.e. both versions of the screenshot) for readers to make their own decision. Unless there is a consensus to take down the second version on this talk page (you alone cannot make a consensus) both versions should remain. --In Defense of the Artist 18:49, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

1. I'm not "offended by the image." Don't divert from the issue at hand by trying make it a 'personal' issue.

2. You state; "I believe that it is informative to have as much accurate information on the subject as possible." Your statement assumes that your screenshot is accurate. That is exactly what is in question.

3. You state: "Since we are lacking a quote from the creators, showing both versions of the title screen gives the readers of wikipedia the option to come to their own conclusion." It is "the creators" that made the image displayed in the storyline section of the article. It is an image that appears several times in the opening credits of episodes 1-17 (the point in the storyline where the bounty on his head is canceled). That, in itself, is enough to know the intent of the creators of the series.

4. You still haven't explained why your image is in wide-screen format. I can find no trace of Trigun ever being released in any format besides 4:3 aspect ratio (1.33:1). Your image is a 3:2 (1.5:1) ratio. Can you cite your edition of the DVD? ++Arx Fortis 23:33, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Further, why do you engage in debate only after I remove the image? I pose several questions/positions that go unanswered for over 2 weeks, but you quickly reply only after the image is removed. It would appear that your tactic is to ignore the issue (not discuss it) until the image is removed against your wishes. Even then, you don't answer the questions posed to you. You consistently refer to the talk page when reverting my edits, but ignore said page in the interim. Why? ++Arx Fortis 00:51, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

(unindent) Actually, the version I have uses the English image uploaded by Artist in the intro, so it's most likely legitimate. However, as neither image seems to me like it adds anything to this article, I propose this compromise - remove both images from the article. Or just keep them both - it doesn't really matter to me. As for the placement of the $$, my opinion is that it was originally intended to go after the number, but that was lost in the translation. --Eruhildo 23:57, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. Done. (EDIT: just for the record ([5]) ++Arx Fortis 15:42, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Travel by Thomas

I can't belive that no one has mentioned the thomases. That is what people ride on Gunsmoke--a thomas. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.67.71.222 (talk) 05:47, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Archive 1