Talk:Treasure Planet

Making this a Featured Article

someone review this article please? Possibly improve it a step up, closer to being a featured article? It won't be too difficult, considering a movie like Treasure Planet isn't hard to elaborate on. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 9spaceking (talk • contribs) 00:32, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

References to use

Please add to the list references that can be used for the film article.

• Hooks, Ed (2005). "Treasure Planet". Acting in Animation: A Look at 12 Films. Heinemann Drama. ISBN 0325007055.

3D vs 2D

The 3D vs 2D argument is so superficial. Does the fact that Pixar's films actually had a better story count for anything?67.150.209.17 05:42, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

• Agreed. That list is ludicrous, and reads like excuses being made by a defensive studio exec. I've added some of the counterarguments floating around and introduced the idea that people simply didn't like the movie. --Misterwindupbird 09:25, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

• Pixar may have better story, but Treasure Planet's story wasn't a horrible, and in my opinion better then a few of it's previous animated films. I liked the movie. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.151.158.71 (talk • contribs) 04:47, 21 September 2005

I think the argument is not that the film was awful, simply underwhelming, especially compared to the very high quality of Pixar's films and (some of) Disney's earlier stuff. It didn't get very many bad reviews, for instance, but most of the good ones were pretty marginal in their praise. --Misterwindupbird 18:42, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

The film was merely released at the wrong time as fantasy was in and classic stories were out, it would probably do better today after the astonishing Corpse Bride, it is entirely different —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.93.21.8 (talk • contribs) 19:04, 4 November 2005

If you have sourced information about that (a quote or interview, even), it would be really useful. The whole "reasons for flop" section is mostly unsourced opinions and needs serious work. Though personally I have a major problem with the "fantasy is not hot" argument -- by that logic pretty much no Disney movie should have succeeded. It's not like we were in the midst of a talking-animals-in-Africa fad when The Lion King hit the market, and Hans Christian Anderson wasn't exactly sweeping the nation when The Little Mermaid came out. Frankly, in my opinion, it was a desperate and transparent attempt by a past-its-prime company to cash in on "cool" computer animation, and that's why it flopped. 24.81.13.220 19:24, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

I took out the stuff about audiences not liking it (no source), and the metacritic reference, since shark tale, madagascar, and chicken little all got lower scores but did well. Pfalstad 19:58, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Ugh!

I took the liberty to remove this entire section until someone wants to make it sound non-illiterate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.40.148.19 (talk • contribs) 03:33, 17 June 2006

Indeed my good sir! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.211.85.40 (talk • contribs) 14:31, 9 July 2007

Video Games

Different Treasure Planet games were released upon different video game consoles, and for PC Windows. There were three Treasure Planet games for the PC, Etherium Rescue, (others unknown for now). When all three were loaded onto the computer (or installed) a fourth game, Ship Shape, became available. McDonalds once gave away a Treasure Planet character figurine, or any of three previews of the games mentioned above with the order of a Mighty (Big?) Kids Meal. It has ended now. There was also another PC, Battle at Pyrceron (mispelled) which proved to be quite successful, as it got numerous good reviews. Treasure Planet was also released on the Playstation, Playstation 2 and the Gameboy Advance, each having different characteristics. The Playstation version was quite different from the Playstation 2 version, and the gameboy advance version had some added story elements probably to add more gameplay levels. The 2 Playstation games weren't very successful, but the companies gave a good effort

More merchandise information soon, we are sorry for the errors; and it seems as if some sections have been unfortunetly deleted.

Loss?

The article claims that TP resulted in a loss of about 125 million. Can this be explained a little better? If the film grossed 109 million but cost about 180 million (40 for advertising and 140 for production costs), then isn't that losing about 70 million? Also, does the gross include DVD sales and merchandise? From the numbers I can see how the studio lost quite a bit of money but losing 125 million? This really needs to be explained better. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.221.96.202 (talk) 22:58, 8 January 2007 (UTC).

Treasure Planet didn't lose 125 million dollars. The person who wrote it obviously didn't properly source it. The Biggest box office Bomb was Alexander, which loss 124 million. 70.145.110.92 14:30, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Credits?

Do we reaaaaallly need the credits here? I haven't seen them in any other Wikipedia articles. Should that section be deleated? ...oh, i changed "arternate" to "alternate" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.86.126.40 (talk • contribs) 13:05, 2 August 2007

Yes, cast and crew information should be included in the article, though there is a preference for having it written in prose format. See Wikipedia:WikiProject Films/Style guidelines for details. -- SilentAria ^talk 08:10, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

I think Laurie Metcalf as Sarah Hawkins did have a significant role. She should have some credit for that. I think she had a larger role than Emma Thompson or Martin Short. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.251.134.97 (talk) 05:14, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Recent edits

Please take the time to actually read what the most recent revision of the article says; it merely states that "some critics have positive reactions to the film", and contains the quotes from those critics. It no longer contains general statements like the previous one about the film receiving praise for its visuals or anything like that. There's nothing imbalanced about it, it doesn't falsify anything, it isn't overtly biased toward one particular view on the film. Perhaps we can discuss this further and come to a compromise through the talk page before making any more changes so as to avoid winding up having an edit war. Also, please do not move the Reception section up anymore, as the article's structure is based on the article template provided by WP:FILM, which indicates that the Reception section should be placed below the cast/crew information section. --SilentAria ^talk 14:07, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Fine. I'm all about a compromise. I will allow the "some critics have positive reactions to the film" but I'm removing the 'weasel words' that say "despite poor performance" since the critic reaction has NOTHING to do with the box office financials of the film. It's apples and oranges and the two could not be any different. Unless you have proof that the critical reaction was so strong that it somehow made up for the fact that this movie was a flop, then this argument has no teeth. This film is not some cult hit like "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" or "Office Space." And just because two critics think the film is worth a second viewing does NOT mean that this film somehow redeemed itself. The movie was a huge disaster for Disney and it has not become some sleeper classic. And without some proof, your argument is pure speculation and wishful thinking at best. So when you mention the positive critic consensus as a way of distracting the reader from the reality that the film did poorly, then you are engaging in a form of media 'spinning.' That violates basic rules of logic and ethical journalism.

Again, included the first part of the sentence is a form of weasel words.

And here is the policy against that:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word

''A weasel word is used to avoid making a straightforward statement. Weasel words are also used to deceive, distract, or manipulate an audience. For example, the statement “up to 50% off on all our products” is attractive because it displays the highest decrease in price one may find at a certain store; however, it doesn't specify how many products are even on sale. In this example, the statement saying "Despite its overall negative reception, some critics had positive reactions to the film." is attractive because it displays the positive influence of the film; however, it doesn't change the fact that the film was a financial disaster which means it has no place in a statement about it.

So, I will keep the formatting the same (I won't change the placement of the reception part.) I will also allow the quotations to be removed from box office bomb since it's not necessary. But I will remove/reword the weasel words you are using to intentionally place a positive spin on the article. I know you like this movie but please leave your emotions out of this. This isn't a fan page, it journalism project for the public at large.

Thanx. 67.176.78.73 (talk) 22:44, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

WP:FILMS Reassessment

I have reviewed this article on behalf of WP:FILMS Assessment department. I have reassessed it as B-class, but it will need a few more things before advancing to GA. I see it has already been nominated, but there is a delay for it to be reviewed, so you should have time to make these changes.

1. The lead needs to be formatted better. Right now it is split up into several brief paragraphs with one or two sentences each. Consolidate these paragraphs and make sure that all of the main sections are briefly mentioned in the lead. Look to other GA/FAs for examples on how to write the lead and see WP:LEAD for other guidelines.
2. The flag needs to be removed from the infobox.
3. There should be a cast section illustrating the roles voiced by each actor.
4. The box office section should be expanded a bit more. Mention its performance in other countries, the number of theaters it was released in, how long it was in theaters for, etc.
5. Expand on the sentences in the other media section, single sentences shouldn't stand alone.

I would also recommend having somebody give it a quick copyedit. The article is well-sourced and covers many aspects of the film. Good work so far and keep up the good work. Happy editing! --Nehrams2020 (talk) 04:27, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Thank you so much for the tips! I'll try to do what I can to improve the article. Thanks again! :) --SilentAria ^talk 06:55, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Treasure Planet/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

---

The review conducted ny the films Wikiproject was really helpful. Changes were made according to that review, which really helped the article.

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose quality:

   Very nice organization of intro

   B. MoS compliance:

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. References to sources:

   B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

   C. No original research:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   B. Focused:

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

   B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:

   No pics, but you can't really use any pics other than the poster

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

   Impressive. Add more info, and I would say that the FA is coming!

Leujohn ^(talk) 03:59, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Incorrect Credits?

This article list Brian Murray as the voice of Silver, but I am fairly certain it is actually Brian Doyle-Murray who is the voice actor. Does anyone know if this is correct? Eluthi (talk) 01:37, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Nope, it was definitely not Brian Doyle-Murray, as this article on Box Office Prophets points out. The film's closing credits also list "Brian Murray", and not "Brian Doyle-Murray". :) --SilentAria ^talk 09:27, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Comparison to book

Disney is known for producing movie adaptations of classic stories and books. However, since their movies are also targeted towards children and families, they frequently heavily edit and modify the story into a form that may not resemble the source material. Adding a section to the article that addresses similarities and alterations to the original material would improve the article.

Commenting on the movie as a stand-alone product, any such deviations are not important. However, given that the story is an adaption, understanding the relationship(s) between the movie and the source can improve one's understanding of the movie. In particular, knowing which characters were kept, deleted or altered; scenes added and deleted; etc.; all contribute to understanding the artistic intent of the film. I am sure there are interviews where the movie contributors (director, writers, etc.) have commented on their decision-making processes. If so, quotes from these can be added and referenced. 65.112.42.83 (talk) 19:29, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Pending changes

This article is one of a number selected for the early stage of the trial of the Wikipedia:Pending Changes system on the English language Wikipedia. All the articles listed at Wikipedia:Pending changes/Queue are being considered for level 1 pending changes protection.

The following request appears on that page:

Comments on the suitability of theis page for "Pending changes" would be appreciated.

Please update the Queue page as appropriate.

Note that I am not involved in this project any much more than any other editor, just posting these notes since it is quite a big change, potentially

Regards, Rich Farmbrough, 00:26, 17 June 2010 (UTC).

please explain ...

What the heck is the 70/30 Law that is mentioned (but not explained) in the Music and sound section? Exit2DOS ^{• Ctrl • Alt • Del} 05:08, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

The section just above the Music and Sound section explains the 70/30 law. --SilentAria ^talk 13:58, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 24 February 2012

The section "Music and Sound" should be renamed to simply "Audio".

New Living Wiki Editor (talk) 23:40, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Not done: Why? The current section name seems more descriptive. Thanks, Celestra (talk) 01:34, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 June 2014

The critical consensus for the film on Rotten Tomatoes is "Though its characterizations are weaker than usual, Treasure Planet offers a fast-paced, beautifully rendered vision of outer space." Gamergrant (talk) 03:21, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Also, please provide the specific wording changes you'd like to have made so that we can add it (for example, change the lead sentence in the "Reception" section to new sentence). --McDoobAU93 13:30, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Note: I've wrapped that section of the text with the {{Rotten Tomatoes score}} template which should automatically update any information from that source via bot. There is nothing else that needs to be done here. Please let me know if this doesn't happen in the next week and I'll poke the bot owner to poke the bot.  :) — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(e • t • c)} 14:29, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Tate Donovan is Jim Hawkins

Tate Donovan did not provited the voice for Jim Hawkins, he provited the voice for a title character as Hercules in Disney thirty-fifth animated feature film of the same name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.147.198.171 (talk) 17:50, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

No Cast?

No cast list? This is unlike most if not all other film articles. Is there a reason there isn't one except in the info box on the side? Charlr6 (talk) 20:45, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

The Manual of Style for film articles provides for two options. The more common one, as you describe, is to include a cast listing following the plot summary. Equally valid, and what's in use here, is a listing of the actor's name adjacent to their character's name the first time it appears in the plot summary. If you'd like to use the first format, I don't think there will be a problem, but it should be one or the other to avoid redundancy. --McDoobAU93 20:53, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Misuse of "whom"; should be "who"

"...cook John Silver (Brian Murray), whom Jim suspects is the cyborg...". This should not be "whom". What we have here is a cook who is the cyborg, Jim suspects, but with the Jim suspects moved parenthetically into the middle. (On the other hand, it would be correct in a clause like "the cook whom Jim loves".) Can someone fix this, since the article is locked? Thanks. 31.50.70.172 (talk) 13:39, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

 Done. In the future you can use the {{edit semi-protected}} template, which will get the attention of editors, giving you a better chance of having your edit request quickly answered. Pishcal — ♣ 21:05, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 May 2015

86.160.231.24 (talk) 19:49, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Pishcal — ♣ 20:59, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 October 2015

98.109.184.196 (talk) 01:23, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

• Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. --Stabila711 (talk) 01:33, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 18 March 2018

"David Hyde Pierce as Delbert Doppler, an anthropomorphic dog and medicinal doctor." is incorrect. His character was an Astronomer. However because of his doctorate degree and limited knowledge of medicine, he was referred to as a medical doctor. Change "and medicinal doctor" to "and astronomer, mistaken as a medical doctor" 41.210.10.75 (talk) 09:11, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 17:38, 18 March 2018 (UTC)

Actually, I believe his doctorate is in astrophysics. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.192.215.18 (talk) 02:57, 22 June 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 November 2019

Please change the description of Jim Hawkins as "a teenage adolescent" to just "an adolescent". "teenage adolescent" is surely rather redundant. 81.96.15.89 (talk) 22:53, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

 Done – Thjarkur (talk) 23:10, 25 November 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 December 2019

Please change “a” to “an” where it says “a adolescent pining for adventure”. 2A01:4C8:C39:F448:90B0:AAD6:4259:2113 (talk) 22:51, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

 Done MadGuy7023 (talk) 23:09, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 March 2020

Note to reviewers: Please refer to this diff for this SPER. {{replyto}} Can I Log In's (talk) page 22:25, 8 April 2020 (UTC)

Please change Design and animation

While designing for Treasure Planet, the crew operated on rule they call the "70/30 Law" (an idea that art director Andy Gaskill has credited to Ron Clements), which meant that the overall look of the film's artwork should be 70% traditional and 30% sci-fi.[23] The overall look of Treasure Planet was based on the art style promoted by illustrators associated with the Brandywine School of Illustration (such as Howard Pyle and N.C. Wyeth), whose illustrations have been described by the film's crew as being the "classic storybook illustration," having a painterly feel to it, and being composed of a warm color palette.[24] The animators took Deep Canvas, a technology which they had initially developed for Tarzan (1999), and came up with a process they called "Virtual Sets," wherein they created entire 360 degree sets before they began staging the scenes.[5] They combined this process with traditionally-drawn characters in order to achieve a "painted image with depth perception" and enabled the crew to place the camera anywhere in the set and maneuver it as they would maneuver a camera for a live-action film.[11] In order to test how a computer-generated body part (specifically John Silver's cyborg arm) would mesh with a traditionally animated character, the crew took a clip of Captain Hook from Peter Pan and replaced his arm with the cyborg arm.[25] There were around forty animators on the crew, and were further divided into teams; for example, sixteen animators were assigned to Jim Hawkins because he appeared on the screen the most, and twelve were assigned to John Silver. To ensure "solidity" in illustration and personality, each major character in the film had a team of animators led by one supervisor. Conli mentioned that the personalities of the supervisors affect the final character, citing Glen Keane (the supervisor for John Silver) as well as John Ripa (the supervisor for Jim Hawkins) as examples. The physical appearance, movements, and facial expressions of the voice actors were infused into the characters as well.[5] When asked if they drew inspiration from the previous film adaptations of Treasure Island for the character designs, Glen Keane stated that he disliked looking at previous portrayals of the character in order to "clear his mind of stereotypes", but that he drew some inspiration for the manner by which Silver spoke from actor Wallace Beery, whom he "loved because of the way he talked out of the side of his mouth." For the characterization and design for Jim Hawkins, John Ripa cited James Dean as an important reference because "there was a whole attitude, a posture" wherein "you felt the pain and the youthful innocence", and he also cited the film Braveheart because "there are a lot of close-ups on characters...who are going through thought processes, just using their eyes."[26] Animators also used maquettes, small statues of the characters in the film, as references throughout the animation process. Character sculptor Kent Melton mentioned that the first Disney film to use maquettes was Pinocchio (1940), and that this paved the way to the formation of an entire department devoted to character sculpting. Keane noted that maquettes are not just supposed to be "like a mannequin in a store", but rather has to be "something that tells you [the character's] personality" and that maquettes also helped inspire the way actors would portray their roles.[27]

to

Design When asked if they drew inspiration from the previous film adaptations of Treasure Island for the character designs, Glen Keane stated that he disliked looking at previous portrayals of the character in order to "clear his mind of stereotypes", but that he drew some inspiration for the manner by which Silver spoke from actor Wallace Beery, whom he "loved because of the way he talked out of the side of his mouth." For the characterization and design for Jim Hawkins, John Ripa cited James Dean as an important reference because "there was a whole attitude, a posture" wherein "you felt the pain and the youthful innocence", and he also cited the film Braveheart because "there are a lot of close-ups on characters...who are going through thought processes, just using their eyes."[26]

While designing for Treasure Planet, the crew operated on the rule they call the "70/30 Law" (an idea that art director Andy Gaskill has credited to Ron Clements), which meant that the overall look of the film's artwork should be 70% traditional and 30% sci-fi.[23] The overall look of Treasure Planet was based on the art style promoted by illustrators associated with the Brandywine School of Illustration (such as Howard Pyle and N.C. Wyeth), whose illustrations have been described by the film's crew as being the "classic storybook illustration," having a painterly feel to it and being composed of a warm color palette.[24] Animation One of the film's goals was to blend different mediums of animation into one film to have such a seamless finish to the point you could not tell the difference between what was two-dimensional hand drawing or computer-generated 3D animations and environments. For the animation of the Treasure Plant, there are three main elements that were essential to the production of this film. The traditional 2D character animation that Disney is known for, three-dimensional character animation, and the computer-generated or CG environments.

For the two-dimensional traditional hand drawing and for the character animation, in general, there were around forty animators on the crew and were further divided into teams. Each team was assigned specific characters or groups of characters. sixteen animators were assigned to Jim Hawkins because he appeared on the screen the most, and twelve were assigned to John Silver. The animators were divided up to ensure "solidity" in illustration and personality, each major character in the film had a team of animators led by one supervisor. Conli mentioned that the personalities of the supervisors affect the final character, citing Glen Keane (the supervisor for John Silver) as well as John Ripa (the supervisor for Jim Hawkins) as examples. The physical appearance, movements, and facial expressions of the voice actors were infused into the characters as well.

The three-dimensional character animation was mainly utilized in the mechanical animation elements of the film. Due to the difficulty of hand drawing all the small consent movements required to create a believable mechanical mechanics, Disney had John Silver’s natural body and clothing animated by hand drawings and bionic/cybernetic body parts like his eye, leg, and arm were three-dimensional animated separately from his 2D drawn clothes and body. In order to test how a computer-generated body part (specifically John Silver's cyborg arm) would mesh with a traditionally animated character, the crew took a clip of Captain Hook from Peter Pan and replaced his arm with the cyborg's arm.[25]B. E. N., the abandoned navigational robot, his entire character was completely 3D animated. These three-dimensional animated characters were rendered flat and superimposed into each frame, meaning the three-dimensional objects in the scene were rendered in a way that made them appear two-dimensional.

Throughout the entire film, the locations of the characters were CG environments, from the ship they were aboard for the majority of the film to Treasure Planet itself. To create this the creators utilized a program called Deep Canvas, to create these environments. Deep Canvas is a 3D modeling program created by Disney art directors and computer programmers for their use in Tarzan (1999). Deep Canvas allows a team of technicians and artists to sculpt a three-dimensional dynamic environment out of rough geometric shapes. And then using a multi-plane camera that can move through an environment with ease allows them to move freely with a virtual camera as if it was an actual set."Virtual Sets," wherein they created entire 360-degree sets before they began staging the scenes.[5] After the sequence is complete they combined this process with traditionally-drawn characters in order to achieve a "painted image with depth perception" it is sent to character animators who then draw the 2D traditional characters and some of the immediate interactions with the environment. Then they maneuver it as they would maneuver a camera for a live-action film.[11] At the same time the Deep Canvas sequence is sent to background painters who take these grey geometric shapes and paint directly on top of them turning it into a lush background environment for each shot.

Animators also used maquettes, small statues of the characters in the film, as live three dimensional references throughout the animation process. Character sculptor Kent Melton mentioned that the first Disney film to use maquettes was Pinocchio (1940) and that this paved the way to the formation of an entire department devoted to character sculpting. Keane noted that maquettes are not just supposed to be "like a mannequin in a store", but rather has to be "something that tells you [the character's] personality" and that maquettes also helped inspire the way actors would portray their roles.[27] Lizley (talk) 15:51, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

Can you add a summary for you edit request? DarthFlappy (talk) 16:58, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

 Partly done: I don't understand the reason for the removal of some text. I only did the text relocation and addition of the animation section. {{replyto}} Can I Log In's (talk) page 22:25, 8 April 2020 (UTC)