Talk:Travis Kelce

Philanthropy & activism section

This section needs work. It is disorganized (e.g., it starts with the 2015 creation of Kelce's foundation, then backs up to talk about his 2014 award, then lurches forward to 2020, then heads back to 2018, etc., etc. And why does "Noted for being generous with his time and resources" appear only in the middle of a paragraph in the middle of the section?). The prose is full of typos (e.g., "launched an initiate"), style errors (e.g., "2 years later..."), and needless words (e.g., "directly impacting and aiding all 450 student-athletes"). So I have been bold in two attempts to bring it up to snuff. First, I cleaned up the style, typos, and wordiness and reorganized it chronologically in two edits. These were summarily reverted by Meryam90 (Edit summary: "why butcher this section this way? it was cohesive and had all well researched information with sources to go and cut it up to small paragraphs adds absolutely nothing it takes away from to???").

OK, I thought, I did make a lot of changes in just a few edits. So for my second try, I changed one or two sentences at a time, with edit summaries to allow any particular edit to be challenged or improved upon. I also tried a new organizing scheme: Intro and awards->Ohio-based efforts->KC-based efforts->Miscellaneous efforts. Each had a topic sentence, as most well-constructed paragraphs do; facts were presented thematically and then chronologically. The result? Another summary reversion by @Meryam90 (edit summary: "There is no mosindesting ecvept yours here. He works PRIMARLY through his foundation (ehnce why the focus is on it FIRST) the everything unrelated to his foundation has been put second and then activism outside of that last. you seem to not have a grip on how his charity work is done and when why you you botching this section. please leave the order of it as it is and make the appropriate edits according to that. or YOU take it to the talk page before..")

I'm certainly open to a different organizing scheme; there could be, say, a paragraph about Kelce's foundation and its works. But the article currently doesn't even assert that he "works PRIMARLY through his foundation", much less present citations to prove it; moreover, the bulk of the examples of his philanthropy appear to be unrelated to the foundation. @Meryam90, I'm happy to work with you to improve this section that so desperately needs it. But in the face of bulk reversions that have restored reams of typos and poor prose, I confess I'm a bit at a loss here. PRRfan (talk) 00:27, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

I am sorry that I don’t have the proper time to write a longer reply right now. But every argument you gave speaks to the fact that you didn’t take the time to read the articles provided in resources. When the work is related to the foundation itself, it’s clearly stated in the source and when it’s something he has done independently of his foundation, it’s also mentioned in the appropriate sources.

If you have gone back to the original edits, I wrote that whole section on my own. Why? Because I am informed enough on his philosophy and what he does around KC with his charity work as a long time Chiefs fan and I knew what/where to research to find all the reliable sources. I reverted your edits because they were adding things that were false and making conclusions that don’t exist. I said in my rv comment: He works primarily in KC not in Ohio, there are only specific instances where his charity work extended to his hometown (despite his foundation being set up in Ohio). That’s why I insist on his foundation being highlighted FIRST. It’s not necessary to highlight that he works primarily with his foundation because EVERY athlete who has a foundation does that. It’s common knowledge and it would actually be unhelpful and not needed at all to “state the obvious” And I also understand your need to make it chronological but it’s actually not a pressing issue when the sections are set up by order of Work with the foundation (the primary focus of his philosophy work)-> work outside of the foundation (mostly individual or pre-foundation-> his limited activism work (that really doesn’t warrant a section for such a small paragraph).

Also some of your edits completely took out major infos in some section’s paragraphs for absolutely no reason and with comments such as “needless”. By whose standards were those informations deemed “needless” and under what wiki policy/rule?

I already said in my rv comment that I am more than welcome to collaborate on the section but the way you cut/trimmed it and completely missed major points in it was unfortunate and I couldn’t just let it go on. It’s not me being overprotective over things I added, it’s me being insistent on the integrity and cohesiveness of the section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Meryam90 (talk • contribs) 08:23, February 28, 2024 (UTC)

You're obviously very passionate about Kelce's philanthropy and have done a lot of work to compile information about it. I will be pleased to work with you to help the words in the article say what you think they say. You want to show that Kelce is outstanding in his charity work? Effective arguments usually move from general to specific: a general statement of a thesis, followed by specific evidence to back it up. If we start with "Kelce made a foundation in 2015" (particularly if we then say, "He won an award in 2014"), we're not making a particularly effective argument. Instead, a good argument might start: "Noted for being generous with his time and resources, Kelce has received several awards for his philanthropic efforts." That's a general statement that tells the reader the theme of the next three paragraphs, and prepares to back that up with the powerful evidence that he has won awards not just for any individual act, but for many of them. Then--again, working from general to specific--the next graf can be about a leading aspect of that philanthropy: his foundation. "Since 2015, Kelce has done much of his work through a foundation he established." Then we use specifics to back that up. Etc. Sound like a good way to start? PRRfan (talk) 17:34, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

@Meryam90: Let's move on. I propose to begin the section: "Noted for being generous with his time and resources, Kelce has received several awards for his philanthropic efforts. He received the Chiefs' Ed Block Courage Award in 2014. In 2020, the Chiefs nominated him for the Walter Payton Man of the Year Award. That same year, fans voted him the winner of the NFL's Charity Challenge Award.:" Sound good? PRRfan (talk) 04:11, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Moving ahead with topic sentence for section. PRRfan (talk) 02:36, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Also fixed several style, grammar, and typographical errors. PRRfan (talk) 02:47, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

References

Removing archive links

Hi, @Rockchalk717. I can see the argument for removing duplicate citations, but why remove archive links? Link rot is real, says someone who has gotten burned by it over the years and is now somewhat obsessed with archiving referenced pages. PRRfan (talk) 17:24, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

@PRRfan: Multiple reasons. Providing an archive link to dead link makes sense. But having every source with an archive link is flat unnecessary, because not every link goes dead (several of these where for Pro Football Reference which I have literally never seen have a link go dead). Also, it can be quite difficult (especially for areas with a multitude of citations) to find where a citation ends to add something after it. That's why I left archives in the career and early life sections because those are less frequently edited and removed them from everywhere else.--Rockchalk717 17:57, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

You're certainly right that archive links add a ton of text to each citation. And I see your logic for which ones you've cut and left. But "not every link goes dead" is only true until it's not, and it entails some risk that we could hedge against with archive links. Still, I'm not particularly worried that information about Travis Kelce is going to disappear before his career winds down and this page becomes less frequently edited. So okay, and thanks for explaining your reasoning. PRRfan (talk) 18:58, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

@PRRfan: No problem, thanks for hearing me out understanding.--Rockchalk717 18:01, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Listing Kelce foundation's work

Bringing this to Talk after @Meryam90's reversion. The paragraph on Kelce's foundation is essentially a list in prose form. We should make it clearer, simpler, and about one-quarter shorter by turning it into a bulleted list. Thoughts?

Current text:

In 2015, Kelce created a nonprofit organization called Eighty-Seven & Running in his hometown of Cleveland, Ohio. Its website says its goal is "empowering underprivileged youth to achieve success by providing resources and support to their communities and cultivating their talents. Kelce's foundation organizes an annual fundraising event in Kansas City, including an auto show and a fashion show, to raise money for various causes in Kansas City and Cleveland. In 2018, Kelce and Operation Breakthrough, a Kansas City-based nonprofit, opened a Robotics Lab accessible to nearly 300 elementary to high school students. In 2020, Kelce donated $500,000 to buy and transform a Kansas City building into a coworking space that gives disadvantaged children opportunities to explore careers in STEM under a workforce development program called "Ignition Lab". That same year, he donated $140,000 to Operation Breakthrough and the Heights Schools Foundation in Ohio to help them during the COVID-19 pandemic. In 2022, Kelce's foundation endowed a Health and Wellness fund that supports the University of Cincinnati's Sports Psychology and Counseling Department and the school's 450 athletes. In 2024, his foundation donated 25,000 breakfast meals to students from Operation Breakthrough. That same year, his foundation helped an elderly former athlete by paying for repairs to her Kansas City home of 56 years.

Proposed text:

In 2015, Kelce created a foundation called Eighty-Seven & Running in his hometown of Cleveland, Ohio, with the goal of "empowering underprivileged youth". The foundation organizes an annual fundraising event in Kansas City, including an auto show and a fashion show, to raise money for various causes there and in Cleveland. Some of its other activities have included:

• 2018: With Operation Breakthrough, a Kansas City-based nonprofit, opened a Robotics Lab accessible to nearly 300 elementary to high school students.
• 2020: Gave $500,000 to buy and transform a Kansas City building into a coworking space to help disadvantaged children explore careers in STEM under a workforce development program called "Ignition Lab".
• 2020: Gave $140,000 to Operation Breakthrough and the Heights Schools Foundation in Ohio to help them during the COVID-19 pandemic.
• 2022: Endowed a Health and Wellness fund that supports the University of Cincinnati's Sports Psychology and Counseling Department and the school's 450 athletes.
• 2024: Donated 25,000 breakfast meals to students from Operation Breakthrough.
• 2024: Helped an elderly former athlete by paying for repairs to her Kansas City home of 56 years.

PRRfan (talk) 22:57, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Seeing no objection after a week, I've made the changes. PRRfan (talk) 22:19, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

References

Early life

Why is the section about his early life talking about the Taylor Swift relationship? The whole paragraph seems like a blog post hijack. 178.232.236.214 (talk) 12:06, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

I've removed it. Poor sourcing and repeating info that's already sourced elsewhere. They have also been blocked as a sock.

Thanks so much for pointing this out. Knitsey (talk) 12:19, 24 October 2024 (UTC)