Talk:Traditional Scouting

Scouting as a game?

Does scouting really qualify as a game? I find the verbiage here quite confusing. --WestonWyse 20:04, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

• It's an analogy. Rlevse 19:10, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

• • Then it needs an explanation, because the text in this form is unclear. Certainly to general readership.

Note: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pathfinder Scouts Association had no consensus for deletion, but did result in that article being redirected here. Obviously, no prejudice against recreating that article if notability concerns can be addressed. Similarly, there might be history there that can be used here. GRBerry 06:32, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm happy to have a go at trying to sort this into an article, as the RESA side seem to be active in a local town and I may be able to get some up-to-date information. I'll also have a go at sorting out the history side of the old entry into something approximate to an article standard. Please note, though, that this does not mean that I am for or against the merge at the moment! DiverScout 21:52, 19 May 2008

Pathfinder merge

• Support Rlevse 11:16, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Confused

As best I see, this article is about "traditional Scouting" as practiced by the B-PSA and the PSA. There is no "traditional Scouting movement", other than some hypothetical material that is referenced from http://www.inquiry.net/traditional/index.htm. I simply do not see the purpose here. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 12:55, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

There is the issue of the B-PSA, which stands for the Baden-Powell Scout Association, a body incorporated in the UK. There are Scouts who call themselves Baden_Powell Scouts who appear to be not part of, or affiliated with, the B-PSA in UK. The site you reference seems to define the term, although I have no idea who is behind that site or what authority is has. I think there are other groups in WFIS who call themselves traditional scouting but are not B-PSA or PSA. However, I agree it is confusing. We may have to add material from the B-PSA aricle if they insist that is about thier association and should not contain groups who are not affiliated. --Bduke (talk) 21:46, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

The web site in question, which is used as a reference, appears to document a hypothetical traditional Scouting program in the U.S. It has been referenced in some online forums, mainly because it has good instructions for fabricating old-style neckerchiefs. As to the traditional Scouting content, I don't think it would be far from wrong to call it a fantasy. The problem with this article is that it appears to be about a movement that does not exist separately from the B-PSA and perhaps the Pathfinders. I would put this up for a merge, but there is really no viable separate content. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 23:01, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Ed, there are a lot more "traditional" scout associations that just the B-PSA and PSA. Apart from those, there are

1. Bund Europäischer St. Georgs- Pfadfinderinnen und -Pfadfinder
2. Bruderschaft Christlicher Pfadfinder
3. Bund Unabhängiger Pfadfinder
4. Deutscher Pfadfinder Bund
5. Europäischer Pfadfinderbund
6. Freie Deutsche Waldläufer Olpe
7. Freier Pfadfinderbund Asgard
8. Freier Pfadfinderbund St.Georg
9. Independent Scout Association
10. Solmser Pfadfinderschaft
11. Pfadfinderbund Weltenbummler
12. ASSISCOUT (Associazione Indipendente Scout)
13. A.S.C.I. - Associazione Scautistica Cattolica Italiana
14. National Scout Center of Kosovo
15. Zemaitia Scout Organizatione
16. # Corpo De Escuteiros Maritimos
17. Asociación Galega de Escultismo - Breogán Scouts
18. Associació Catalana de Scouts
19. Feuerkreis Niklaus von Flüe
20. Pfadfinderbund Seeland
21. Okruzna ORGANIZACIJA Skauta-Sverna Backa
    

These are just the Associations I know of and had the names of immediately to hand - I know that there are several that I have missed. There are also many Associations running as part of the FSE, who could possibly be considered "traditional". Also, as Brian pointed out, it appears that some of the Associations listed on the page about the Baden-Powell Scouts' Association are, in fact, separate Associations and apparently should not be on that page at all (in the same way that the Baden-Powell Scouts' Association is not kept as content on The Scout Association's page).

Seems like a rather large fantasy! :D

By fantasy, I am referring to http://www.inquiry.net/traditional/index.htm

I'm not sure that I like this page at the moment, either, but it may be required as a place to base some of the less easily referenced associations in the future. DiverScout (talk) 11:15, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

My fear is that we are trying to create a "universal" article for something that means many things to many organizations. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 13:38, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Different confusion

In the section titled "Differences", it is stated: "There are several differences between modern Scouting and the Traditional Scouting movement:

• Scouting games, Patrol totems and calls, and advancement are based on standards rather than competition."

Sorry i am not familiar with this topic, but could someone please clarify if the dot-point is describing what is in modern scouting vs. what is in Traditional Scouting. All the other dot-points are similarly unclear on what is the modern vs. what is the traditional practice. Hope this helps someone improve this article somewhat. doncram (talk) 05:05, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

I call

I'm throwing in my chips and calling here. I think most of this article is bogus. There is no international traditional Scouting movement. There are some national Scouting organizations that base their program on their interpretation of traditional Scouting, but each is different, and none uses the same program.

Every reference in this article is to http://www.inquiry.net/. Lets look at http://www.inquiry.net/traditional/index.htm in particular and pick out a few points:

• The following hypothetical Traditional Scouting model is how 21st century American Scouting might be organized if it were based on how strictly Baden-Powell's English model was copied in Canada and Australia.
• Independent Pathfinders (a generic American hypothetical adaptation of Baden-Powell's "Traditional" or original Scouting program)
• Otters (Traditional Scouting for Ages 5-7)
• Timber Wolves (Traditional Scouting for Ages 8-10)

Someone please show me where this stuff has actually been implemented? --—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 15:48, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

I think Ed is largely correct. There is a movement across the world to retain traditional scouting practices and reject modernization, but is it not well organized and the best sources are to those belonging to specific examples of traditional scouting organizations. We have to very careful indeed about sources in this area, because quite frankly many arise from hope rather than reality. They are what someone wants Scouting to be like, not how it is. The site mentioned is not the only one that I doubt is a reliable source. I have been meaning to seek the opinion of someone who I think has a great knowledge of scouting sources. I will now do that. Nevertheless, this article could be made into a decent article. Let us add more information about national organizations and world organizations that do exist and remove material that is linked to this one source. --Bduke (Discussion) 21:44, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Traditional Scouting. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080619105537/http://groups.msn.com:80/PathfinderScouts to http://groups.msn.com/PathfinderScouts

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Y An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 12:34, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

Article Overhaul

As mentioned in several places above, this article was a bit of a mess. Most of the citations directed to one person's blog, and very little of the material was supported by reliable sources. I have done a rewrite, attempting to strip away the editorializing and speculation, bringing in sources from the organizations themselves as well as reliable press reports. I have also eliminated a lot of the jargon and undefined concepts that other commenters have pointed out as confusing; if anyone would care to re-write those for a general audience please feel free to add back in. SixFourThree (talk) 05:37, 21 October 2020 (UTC)SixFourThree