Talk:Toto (band)/Archive 2
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Mike Porcaro / Nathan East
Please note that Nathan East is not an official member of Toto. Mike Porcaro is still an official member, although he can't play any more. See their website for reference: http://www.toto99.com/band/band.shtml. --Sylvia Anna (talk) 12:19, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
- I have edited Mike Porcaro's page to reflect that. Do you want to remove Nathan East from the Template section--related?Mphil1805 (talk) 12:42, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
- No. After all he is related. He plays the second tour for them right now.--Sylvia Anna (talk) 15:39, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
- I don't think Mike should be listed as an official member anymore. They broke up in 2008 and he never rejoined for this tour as he was too ill. On his page it states that his years as an active musician ended in 2008 anyway. Granted Nathan East isn't an official member so technically they have no bassist. I also think the section displaying the timeline of band members, everyone should be cut out from 2008-2010 as the band didn't exist then, they split up! Members such as Lukether, Paich and Phillips are continious from when they joined till present and its not realistic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TomKing1980 (talk • contribs) 21:11, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
- How about giving others the chance to answer before making such changes to the article? First, if the band still considers Mike Porcaro an official member, how can we not? Second, as to the period from 2008 to 2010, you have a point in saying that it should be cut out. On their homepage, though, they show memberships as continous. I guess I am fine with both.--Sylvia Anna (talk) 21:53, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
- Well firstly, if the drastic changes you're referring to was putting Nathan East as an official member then I safely say that was not me. He is a session musician and I don't know who did that. Secondly Mike doesn't play with them anymore, doesn't play at all anymore infact, and it states on his page that his music career ended in 2008 which is quite right. He has Lou Gehrig's disease and someone else is playing bass since their reformation (as an official member or not). its not realistic to list him as an official member anymore. They disbanded in 2008 and he never rejoined with them in 2010. As for the member's timeline it is right to cut out the 2008-2010 part. Whether its continuous on their homepage or not their is no denying (I'll say it again) they split up...and then reformed. It's only being accurate and having common sense. I mean to make Lukather continuous is even a bit insulting, they split up because he left and there is even a whole section which quotes his comments about leaving... which put the point across rather well lets say. Its hardly even worth discussing.--TomKing1980 (talk) 15:16, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
- I disagree with regards to Lukather. At the time of the split Lukather was the only continuous original member still with the band fulltime, the only other original member who had been with the band from formation to the point of breakup was David Paich, but he didn't tour fulltime with them, and Bobby Kimball was a present original member but had been missing from the lineup for years previously, and was absent when they reformed in 2010. Yes, Toto should be listed as being nonexistent during the period of 2008-2010, but if that's not going to be done then Lukather has to be included as a member during that period purely for the aforementioned reasons, afterall, if Paich and Kimball had been more stable members of the band the breakup would not necessarily have come with Lukather's departure. Burbridge92 (talk) 10:39, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
- Well firstly, if the drastic changes you're referring to was putting Nathan East as an official member then I safely say that was not me. He is a session musician and I don't know who did that. Secondly Mike doesn't play with them anymore, doesn't play at all anymore infact, and it states on his page that his music career ended in 2008 which is quite right. He has Lou Gehrig's disease and someone else is playing bass since their reformation (as an official member or not). its not realistic to list him as an official member anymore. They disbanded in 2008 and he never rejoined with them in 2010. As for the member's timeline it is right to cut out the 2008-2010 part. Whether its continuous on their homepage or not their is no denying (I'll say it again) they split up...and then reformed. It's only being accurate and having common sense. I mean to make Lukather continuous is even a bit insulting, they split up because he left and there is even a whole section which quotes his comments about leaving... which put the point across rather well lets say. Its hardly even worth discussing.--TomKing1980 (talk) 15:16, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
- How about giving others the chance to answer before making such changes to the article? First, if the band still considers Mike Porcaro an official member, how can we not? Second, as to the period from 2008 to 2010, you have a point in saying that it should be cut out. On their homepage, though, they show memberships as continous. I guess I am fine with both.--Sylvia Anna (talk) 21:53, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
- I don't think Mike should be listed as an official member anymore. They broke up in 2008 and he never rejoined for this tour as he was too ill. On his page it states that his years as an active musician ended in 2008 anyway. Granted Nathan East isn't an official member so technically they have no bassist. I also think the section displaying the timeline of band members, everyone should be cut out from 2008-2010 as the band didn't exist then, they split up! Members such as Lukether, Paich and Phillips are continious from when they joined till present and its not realistic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TomKing1980 (talk • contribs) 21:11, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
- No. After all he is related. He plays the second tour for them right now.--Sylvia Anna (talk) 15:39, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
I guess we could discuss forever if they officially split up in 2008 or not. Was there ever an official statement from the band? They practically weren't together from 2008 to 2010. So whatever. But, if Mike Porcaro is an official member of the band - although he can't play any more - is not for you or WP to decide. It's for the band to decide. They still view him as a member and so should we. --Sylvia Anna (talk) 20:42, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
- Well if he's still officially part of the band then thats that, but there is no denying they split up, their is an official statememt on Steve Lukather's page and it is quoted in this article. He left and they decided to "go their seperate ways" almost instantly. Steve even says in the statement something along the lines of "Yes I have infact left, Toto is no more". He was so blunt he was forced to retract his statement. Toto did split up....and if its true then fine, against all logic and the fact he's incapable of playing and because he has a replacement, put Mike as an official member then. --TomKing1980 (talk) 23:55, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
- This is what I hate in Wikpedia, someone people can suddenly change the history of articles. One, "split-up" yes but they have reformed until they once again say split up. Even the section mentions the word "reformation". Two, you are jumping the gun by believing that Mike can never play again--have you not heard of miracle recoveries? You are assuming that he is forever incapable of playing bass--no on released an official statement saying, "[Mike Porcaro] is forevr incapable of playing bass". Further more, no one, Toto website, Steve Lukather.net, Totonetwork, the media (which usually hates Toto) or the Porcaro family ever released a statement saying, "[Mike Porcaro] has officially left the band and retired." No one has said that. But if ypou love to edit the article that way, fine by me. This is Wikipedia, the free-to-add anything site.78.109.182.43 (talk) 08:54, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
- Miracle recoveries? From ALS? The only miracle I know regarding ALS is how long celebrity sufferer Stephen Hawking has survived with the condition, which is nearly fifty years to date (as opposed to the two or so years the average sufferer of the disease has). It is highly unlikely that Mike Porcaro will recover from this, and that's an understatement. Burbridge92 (talk) 10:39, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
- No I will leave Mike's info alone now. He is still an official member and thats fine, but please don't suggest he will recover or play regularly again or perform again, Lou Gehrig's Disease is a very serious illness and people do not survive from it for long, suggesting a "miracle recovery" just to back up why he should be an official member isn't fair, eventually he will loose virtually all ability to move...but if they say hes still in the band then OK. They may not have said officially he will never play, but he has a disease that will eventually paralyze him completely...so does the obvious really need to be released in an official statement????? As for the breakup, it happened. In order.....Steve officially left, officially posted a statement on his page (quoted here), the remaining members officially broke up in 2008 and OFFICIALLY reformed last year to support Mike. --TomKing1980 (talk) 19:33, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
- This is what I hate in Wikpedia, someone people can suddenly change the history of articles. One, "split-up" yes but they have reformed until they once again say split up. Even the section mentions the word "reformation". Two, you are jumping the gun by believing that Mike can never play again--have you not heard of miracle recoveries? You are assuming that he is forever incapable of playing bass--no on released an official statement saying, "[Mike Porcaro] is forevr incapable of playing bass". Further more, no one, Toto website, Steve Lukather.net, Totonetwork, the media (which usually hates Toto) or the Porcaro family ever released a statement saying, "[Mike Porcaro] has officially left the band and retired." No one has said that. But if ypou love to edit the article that way, fine by me. This is Wikipedia, the free-to-add anything site.78.109.182.43 (talk) 08:54, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
Here's something to ponder. Mike Porcaro is an official but inactive member of the band according to the logic being used on this page, because the band still list him as a current member. Well, let's look at similar examples of this kind of thing. Kim Il-sung was the President of North Korea until 1994, when he died. He was subsequently proclaimed the "Eternal President of North Korea", a position which (obviously) he still holds to this date. The position of "President" in North Korea was subsequently abolished (Kim Jong-il has assumed the position of "Supreme leader of North Korea", officially he is not the President). Despite all of this, and the North Korean government's adamance that Kim Il-sung is still the overall leader of their country, we list Kim Jong-il as the real leader. Another example is the band X Japan. Sometime after their breakup in 1997, lead guitarist hide committed suicide. However, the band, since reformed, still introduce hide as a member at every concert. Despite all of this, we do not list hide as a member of X Japan. In both of these cases an inactive individual who spiritually holds their position within some organisation is not listed as a current member of said organisation simply for the fact that they are no longer a member of said organisation. By the same logic, Mike Porcaro is not a member of Toto, because although officially holding the position of "bass player", he is not active with the group and is in essence another spiritual member of an organisation. That's my two cents on the topic. If we are to consider Mike Porcaro as a member of Toto, why do we not consider Kim Il-sung to be the leader of North Korea and hide to be a member of X Japan? (P.S. I'm sure there's other examples, those two are just the ones that sprung to my mind.) Burbridge92 (talk) 10:39, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
- One significant difference is that Mike Porcaro is still alive. Let's wait and see how his official status changes when he has died. Whatever, it doesn't change the fact that Nathan East is not an official member of the band but a guest musician.--Sylvia Anna (talk) 12:10, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
- Nathan East is still not a member of the band regardless. However, whilst you are correct in saying that there is a significant difference between the examples I gave and Mike Porcaro, that particular difference doesn't change the point I was making. I'm not saying we should remove Mike from the current members, nor am I saying we should add hide to the current members of X Japan or Kim Il-sung to North Korea's infobox as leader, but we should do one or the other for consistency on Wikipedia, for regardless of whether the inactive individual is ill, deceased, or anything else, we can either take the official line (i.e. they're still active when actually they're not) or the actual reality of the situation, but all cases should be treated the same. Burbridge92 (talk) 10:03, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
- This is the place to discuss and decide what is best for this article. It isn't the place to discuss inconsistencies within WP. But anyway, sometimes where two situations are even slightly different, they need different approaches. And then there are not even inconsistencies. In this case I think we do a good job in stating the situation as it actually is.--Sylvia Anna (talk) 21:50, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
- I'm not stating a case for either side. Nor am I suggesting that WP can be sorted by commenting on this discussion page. I'm merely pointing out the inconsistencies that do exist, this is a prime example of one. If I or anyone else decides to follow up on it I'll take it elsewhere. The crucial point is I'm not arguing for a change on this page, because I'm apathetic to the matter for aforementioned reasons. Burbridge92 (talk) 21:49, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
- This is the place to discuss and decide what is best for this article. It isn't the place to discuss inconsistencies within WP. But anyway, sometimes where two situations are even slightly different, they need different approaches. And then there are not even inconsistencies. In this case I think we do a good job in stating the situation as it actually is.--Sylvia Anna (talk) 21:50, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
- Nathan East is still not a member of the band regardless. However, whilst you are correct in saying that there is a significant difference between the examples I gave and Mike Porcaro, that particular difference doesn't change the point I was making. I'm not saying we should remove Mike from the current members, nor am I saying we should add hide to the current members of X Japan or Kim Il-sung to North Korea's infobox as leader, but we should do one or the other for consistency on Wikipedia, for regardless of whether the inactive individual is ill, deceased, or anything else, we can either take the official line (i.e. they're still active when actually they're not) or the actual reality of the situation, but all cases should be treated the same. Burbridge92 (talk) 10:03, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
- Why you people want to go against officially state info is against me.Phd8511 (talk) 18:19, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
- Somebody needs to sort this out. It's fine for us to note that he's still a member of Toto, but he's not their bass player. He's obviously not touring with Toto. He could theoretically be working "behind the scenes" with the band as the ailing Maurice White has done for years with Earth Wind and Fire, but as Toto isn't recording any studio material this also seems unlikely. Nathan East is certainly a salaried musician rather than an offical band member. I'm not suggesting listing East as a member, nor am I suggesting removing Porcaro as one. But stating in the lede that he's their bass player is misleading our readers. Joefromrandb (talk) 16:16, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
- This is total nonsense. The facts here are drawn from Toto's website and data. Mike Porcaro is still an official member and I think most of you who want to edit him out or think it is inaccurate are just playing around. Unless we get an official press release that he is dead (touch wood) Mike is still their member. He is critically ill but still their member. Enough about this nonsense. Nathan East is a touring member. That is why sometimes I really hate Wikipedians.Phd8511 (talk) 14:54, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
- Somebody needs to sort this out. It's fine for us to note that he's still a member of Toto, but he's not their bass player. He's obviously not touring with Toto. He could theoretically be working "behind the scenes" with the band as the ailing Maurice White has done for years with Earth Wind and Fire, but as Toto isn't recording any studio material this also seems unlikely. Nathan East is certainly a salaried musician rather than an offical band member. I'm not suggesting listing East as a member, nor am I suggesting removing Porcaro as one. But stating in the lede that he's their bass player is misleading our readers. Joefromrandb (talk) 16:16, 27 July 2012 (UTC)
Associate Press Article
WALTER BERRY, April 12, 1985, Music Makers: Shedding a Faceless Image, Associate Press
"Toto also wrote the soundtrack to the movie "Dune" and the boxing theme "Moodido" for Columbia Records' "The Official Music of the XXIII Olympiad Los Angeles, 1984."
78.109.182.43 (talk) 16:07, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
- I found it odd that there was no mention in the article about Toto doing the soundtrack to Dune. Why is it not currently in the article? — al-Shimoni (talk) 02:06, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
Revert of edits by Scarlettrische
Apart from other problems, it seems that a lot of Scarlettrische's edits, if not all, were copyright violations from totoofficial.com/history. Do not copy and paste from other sites. --Sylvia Anna (talk) 21:42, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
Hungate: Touring or permanent ?
Is Hungate officially returning or just touring? So who will fill the bass?Phd8511 (talk) 17:43, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
"currently scheduled to tour with Toto as a guest musician, as Mike Porcaro is too ill to tour." << Somebody needs to clarify that with dates.
In the recent tour program was not 'in the band' but an touring addition (though loads of the other 'additions' have been with the band on tours or albums for 20 years or more and many were also on recent album). TOUR 2015 program (Manchester, England, 25-May-2015). Probably too soon to for them to think on it considering the situation. So NOT yet a re-member of the band. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.241.199.188 (talk) 19:25, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
Record Sales
Anyone know of a site that keeps tracks and lists all album sales? Looking for Tambu but would be a good reference to have for all.--MattyMetalFan (talk) 15:42, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
Keith Carlock
What happened to Keith Carlock? I thought he was supposed to replace Simon Phillips. Dobbyelf62 (talk) 01:23, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
- @Dobbyelf62: He's now touring with the Doobie Brothers, so I have no idea who Toto is using for their 2016 tour. I'm trying to find out so we can update the article. --Laser brain (talk) 11:24, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
- @Laser brain: If I'm not mistaken, Shannon Forrest is now their drummer. However, Toto doesn't have him listed as an official member. Dobbyelf62 (talk) 14:41, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
Band beginnings
I just saw the 2014 'behind the scenes in poland' documentary and Lukather revelas the band actually formed in high school before they started sessioning, and the widely accepted story for their formation is actually a misconception! Someone else may like to check this out and update as I don't have the time, it's one of the first lines of the doc so don't need to spend much time watching the full video Yellowxander (talk) 12:46, 28 January 2018 (UTC) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvJjBsipc1o
"Legacy" section -- where is it?
Don't you guys think Toto have earned the right to a "Legacy" section on their page?
I guess "real fans" would argue that Toto themselves would not want such a section, deeming it premature; I get it.
However, If we look at Mr. Lukather's recent interview opining on how Toto were ripped by the Rolling Stones, only to rationalise this away using the praise of the (great) Miles Davis, I think it's time we, as the Wikipedia Community, take it upon ourselves to begin framing the legends that are...
Just because Toto didn't smoke their direct relatives' ashes in some form of cigarette, and wrote music that seems extremely "idealistic" (to say the least), it does not cheapen the power of their message.
Toto deserves more respect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.65.154.39 (talk) 00:44, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
Session Work (1970's to early 1990's)
I have readded the section detailing Toto's session work with other artists, such as with Boz Scaggs and Michael Jackson, but this time with sources for a majority of the content, though there are still some with no sources. If anyone has any sources for the remaining, unsourced entries, then please do add them. Also, did the members of Toto contribute to The Jackson's and the Grease soundtrack? I looked on The Jackson's page, but could not find anything about them contributing, and someone here on this page wanted to know if the members of Toto did in fact contribute to the Grease soundtrack. Also, if you feel the section could be improved in general, then please do so. Moline1 (talk) 00:34, 30 October 2019 (UTC)
- In my opinion, this section is poorly written and out-of-place in this article. It's well-known that Toto is comprised of prolific session musicians from that era, and that's worth mentioning. However, details about who did what belong in the individual member articles. They were operating as independent musicians when they took session jobs, not as "Toto". --Laser brain (talk) 11:10, 30 October 2019 (UTC)
Adding Hard rock to the Genre.
Guys, I just wanted to say this, I'm putting hard rock to their article because Toto has made hard rock songs, So i have to put on it. Remember, don't remove it, Okay. TGoethals78. (talk) 9:07 PM, 27 November 2019
- Unless it is reliably sourced, someone, me included, will remove it. Robvanvee 05:13, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
- While they have ventured into hard rock, it should not be listed on the genres. Their music as a whole is based around mainstream pop, rock, and jazz fusion, and as such those should be listed as those genres are what they base their sound on. The other genres that they do such as progressive rock, neo-progressive rock, R&B, soul, funk, hard rock, etc were not consistently found across all the albums they put out while pop, rock, and jazz fusion were, hence why those three should only be listed. Can you imagine if someone edited the genres on the Mr. Bungle page to include every single genre they have embraced? That would be a lot as they ventured from many styles such as rock, pop, jazz, rap, funk, soul, R&B, heavy metal, punk rock, grunge, folk, blues, glam rock, etc. That would easily blow their page up, and rather than have all those genres listed, experimental rock would be the best suited genre as it covers every genre they have experimented with. If you are faced with a band who is hard to categorize (Evanecense being one of them), you just leave the field blank and describe their musical style in the Musical Styles field. The genre field is meant to list the genres a band is most well known for, and consistently appears across all their albums (discounting any brief detours for another music style). The Beatles article should be taken as an example. On that article, it only lists rock and pop as their genres despite them embracing several other styles. That is because rock and pop appear consistently across all their albums, and that they have too many genres to list in the genre field. Sorry for the rant, but am giving a brief explanation how the genre field should be, which is light and only consisting of the genres that appear consistently across their albums. Also, prog rock is being removed due to the reasons stated above. Moline1 (talk) 02:39, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
- I disagree. Hard and prog-rock one is main styles of the band.--Jimi Henderson (talk) 10:31, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
Hard rock has been explored on many of their albums, including Isolation (1984), Kingdom of Desire (1992), Falling In Between (2006), and multiple sparse examples in their other albums. Hard rock deserves to be a genre listed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.147.190.172 (talk) 15:27, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
Do you have citations for this? Dimadick (talk) 18:08, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
David Paich status
If think David Paich should be considered as current band member, even thought he will not be touring. Steve Lukather said David is "with them", David works as musical director during the rehersals and he will make some apperances on some live shows, when he will be able to, but he's not able to do full tour. 193.242.212.7 (talk) 15:49, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
- Sources? Joey Camelaroche (talk) 17:25, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
Add Paich to "current" status?
David Paich of course appeared with them on their 11/21/2020 virtual concert and is referred to on Luke's twitter as their musical director. Could he possibly be added to the current members section as:
David Paich - keyboards, lead and backing vocals (1977–2008, 2010-2019; musical director & guest 2020-present; studio only 2005-2008, 2018-2019) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.147.190.172 (talk) 15:25, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
- Do you have sources for this? Joey Camelaroche (talk) 18:02, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
According to this tweet by Luke, [1], David Paich is still IN the band, so I think his status should be changed to "current" Jocafus (talk) 18:40, 16 April 2021 (UTC)