Talk:Torsion bar suspension

Automobiles High‑importance

	Cars portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Automobiles, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of automobiles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AutomobilesWikipedia:WikiProject AutomobilesTemplate:WikiProject AutomobilesAutomobile articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Military history: Land vehicles Start‑class

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

Start

This article has been rated as Start-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion not met

Associated task forces:
/
	Military land vehicles task force

It is requested that a mechanical diagram or diagrams be included in this article to improve its quality. Specific illustrations, plots or diagrams can be requested at the Graphic Lab.
For more information, refer to discussion on this page and/or the listing at Wikipedia:Requested images.

The T34 used Christie suspension not torsion bar

Current article statement: A disadvantage of the torsion bar suspension used in Tiger and Panther tanks (and many other WWII-era tanks and other AFVs, including the T-34) ....

Just refer to the linked T34 article itself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.175.205.82 (talk) 20:00, 12 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Untitled

I've seen the automotive torsion bar credited to Stephen L. Coleman (Frederickton, NB) on 22 April 1919. Comment? Worth a mention? Trekphiler 05:45, 8 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The whole thrust of this page is bizarre. A torsion bar is a type of spring, not a type of suspension. Virtually any independent suspension could be made to work with a torsion bar spring. Can anyone come up with a good reason why it shouldn't be deleted and replaced with an article about torsion springs?Greglocock 20:38, 3 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you. Also, in case it comes up, torsion bars are different from torsion springs, which are different in a number of respects, including having a coiled geometry. I recommend changing the name of this page to 'torsion bar suspension' and creating a stub for a 'torsion bar' page to contain information about the spring type. At minimum, a disambiguation page should exist, but that seems like an inferior solution.Jim Lipsey 20:14, 18 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed now, by Flash176, ta. Greg Locock (talk) 05:19, 29 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Trekphiler asserts that Torsion Bar is not a type of suspension. It IS the name of a type of suspension, like MacPherson Strut or Wishbone. Infodater (talk) 16:00, 10 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This page could do with a picture. Perhaps a photo of my 1957 Plymouth with both torsion bars broken during the warranty period.

Note

From 1960 until 1962, GM used torsion springs for the front suspension of its 1/2 and 3/4 ton trucks. This was the first independent front suspension on an American truck. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.78.96.87 (talk) 00:39, August 25, 2007 (UTC)

Needs Wikification

in that it needs sections, and a diagram would be extremely useful. --jazzle 14:10, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Added sections, jarlen, 11 December 2008. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.243.64.206 (talk) 10:19, 11 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Tatras

It's stated that:

The Czechoslovakian Tatra cars designed by Professor Hans Ledwinka in the mid-1930s used all round independent torsion bar suspension, along with air cooled rear engines.

The early rear-engined Tatras employed twin transverse leaf springs in front suspension and one transverse (T77), or two diagonally mounted (T87) leaf springs in the rear, but obviously not torsion bars... earlier Tatras with front engine - rear wheel drive layout also appear to have transverse leaf springs rather then anything else (may be I'm wrong).

Also herr Porsche used torsion bars in his tank suspension designs, not only in cars. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.79.19.180 (talk) 08:17, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Im thinking this article needs stub status? Seems a little short for such a big topic in mechanical engineering and driving. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.111.145.28 (talk) 23:06, 28 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the reference to Tatra is entirely unsound. Not till 1948 was torsion bar rear suspension employed in the T600 Tatraplan, the only time the company did so. Also, the settlement from VW was 1m. Deutsche marks, not three million, as repeatedly misreported, and the litigation was over detail infringements, not the 'VW concept'. Also, Hans Ledwinka was not a professor. Reference deleted Heckmotor97 (talk) 17:38, 22 February 2018 (UTC) Heckmotor97 (talk) 10:12, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Unbelievable!

< Perhaps the biggest advantage to the driver is that torsion bars have no bounce- they simply deform and then return to zero.[citation needed] Coil springs have bounce that has to be damped out by the shock absorber >

Deleted

86.176.163.224 (talk) 16:24, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Simply not true

The article is just not right. The golf Mk III is NOT using torsion bar springs for its suspension. It uses coil over shocks on a compound axle.

IF we must go the car route, then go for the peugeot 306/405/106 and so on. They all use trailing arm + torsion springs. or perhaps an old vw bettle. But this is just not true — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.184.144.169 (talk) 07:51, 12 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The article doesn't say that. read it again. Greglocock (talk) 23:31, 12 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Merge proposal

Should this be merged with the Twist-Beam Suspension article? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twist-beam_rear_suspension — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.87.27.246 (talk) 03:31, 30 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No, because an RTB has separate springs whereas a torsion bar suspension doesn't.Greglocock (talk) 03:44, 30 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think there is a linking error here. The "Torsion Bar Suspension" page and "Torsion Beam Suspension" page both seem to come here. I posted as a comment in this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torsion_beam_suspension But if from that link you click the "talk" link then the "article" link you end up in the Torsion Bar Suspension page. I agree that the Torsion Bar Suspension page should not be added to the Twist Beam page. I propose we combine the Torsion Beam page with the Twist Beam page. Here are the links in question: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torsion_beam_suspension :Note the discussion page will link you back here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twist-beam_rear_suspension :The other page on basically the same thing but with different pictures — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.87.27.246 (talk) 02:26, 1 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Possible additions:

Hi, I was reading about formula 1 cars and learned that they are all using torsion bar suspension. I thought this was pretty significant given that the article only lists trucks, tanks, and older cars as users! http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/torsion_bar.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.3.43.166 (talk) 15:22, 12 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Twisting "T", instead of twisting L's?

I think I understand, from reading the Torsion Bar suspension page, that torsion bars are twisting "L" shapes, because of the "torsion key" component.

I suppose that a torsion beam has a "t" shaped central bar, that twists, as well as rising and falling? That ambiguity is the reason readers would benefit from a picture. Infodater (talk) 16:07, 10 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No pure torsion springs are always round bars. The torsional element of a twist beam suspension may be almost any shape, typically a U channel, often with an additional round bar inside it. Greglocock (talk) 23:21, 10 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Linear spring rate is a noteworthy characteristic - is torsion bar linear?

While this article notes that a torsion bar differs from a spring in its recoil rate, it is wishful thinking to assume that a torsion bar is linear, without enumerating that point. What should readers infer? Infodater (talk) 16:10, 10 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't quite understand your post, but so far as I can tell the article makes no claims about a recoil rate, whatever that is. You can make a coil spring get progressively stiffer in one /direction/. A torsion spring is linear in itself, although details of the linkage used may change the effect on wheel rate. Greglocock (talk) 23:06, 10 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There's a big unsourced change just gone in (and out again) claiming that torsion bars are progressive. However (by and large) they're not. There is an issue that some are known to start approaching elastic limits if over-strained (and please remember the differences between stress and strain), which used to be a problem for applying long-travel suspension to VW dune buggies and that certainly makes their stress/strain relation non-linear - but that's a long way from the sort of progressive spring rate that's possible for a coil spring or even some leaf spring designs. Andy Dingley (talk) 19:08, 11 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Why no torsion bar suspension in railway use anywhere?

Hello, the current article fails to explain or even mention why railways do NOT use the torsion bar suspension - even though the weight of freight wagons and locomotives are quite comparable to heavy battle tanks, like the Konigtiger or M1 Abrams.

It seems trains use leaf springs (older freight wagons and steam locomotives), coil springs (pax carriages and diesel / electric locomotives) or pneumatic suspension (for modern EMU trainsets), but torsion bar tech is completely alien to them? 80.99.11.157 (talk) 21:32, 12 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]