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Talk:Tornado outbreak of April 20, 2004

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The section on aftermath seemed like a lot of heresay and conjecture, so I tagged it as OR. Sources need to be cited there and throughout the article, some of these claims are pretty bold so for the reader it should be easy to see where they come from. It looks like the ELs were supposed to be references so if I get some time I may sort through them and see which ones should be cited.--IvoShandor (talk) 20:34, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah... I checked and that dates back to 2005, before I knew about inline referencing. I think, though I'll have to check again, that info comes from the Wicked Wind reference. Could be wrong. —Rob (talk) 05:09, 31 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
No big deal. We'll sort through it, I am particularly concerned about the statements concerning the woman's unborn son. That needs a couple sources, it seems like a thinly veiled attempt at pro-life POV, of course, I could be mistaken. --IvoShandor (talk) 05:54, 31 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Reasons for move

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  • Using the term "Utica" downplays the other tornadoes impacts across the Midwest in Joliet a tornado caused $5,000,000 worth of damage and received coverage from reliable sources and caused damage in a major metropolitan area.
  • As stated above the Utica tornado was not the only notable tornado in fact a tornado near Kokomo injured 1 person and another one near Jamestown injured 8 people, other tornadoes caused heavy damage throughout the region.
  • Of course the Utica tornado was unique in that it formed in a river valley, however what makes the entire event even more unique is the fact that no one predicted a tornado outbreak would even happen, I quote from a National Weather Service report, "This Severe Weather Event was largely unanticipated and one of the more difficult outbreaks in recent history to forecast". That same report also says, "The April 20 2004 Tornado Outbreak serves as an excellent example to forecasters regarding the importance of monitoring and making major adjustments to model-derived forecasts based on observed data in real time." the full report can be read here.
  • Lastly no one (I can find) but Wikipedia calls this the April 2004 Utica tornado outbreak while the more commonly used names are similiar such as Severe Weather Outbreak of April 20, 2004, April 20, 2004 Deadly Tornado Outbreak in Illinois and Indiana.

Thanks to anyone who puts imput into this disscussion, I will respond to any questions on this rename on this page. Marcusmax(speak) 00:09, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Rename/Move

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April 2004 Utica tornado outbreak → April 20, 2004 tornado outbreak — It seems important that this article be renamed and moved, from its current title to one the better sums up the full incident. When I was a much less experienced editor I attempted to move this article to April 20, 2004 Tornado Outbreak to better sum up the entire tornado outbreak instead of just the Utica Tornado. But I failed to obtain consensus and it was undone, so I seek consensus this time. See my full explanation above. -Marcusmax(speak) 00:25, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment. As I see it, there have been three moves.[1][2][3] For one thing, Tornado Outbreak is not a proper noun, and would certainly not be capitalized. For another, I see no value in specifying April 20, vs. April, and finally, for me it is much more useful to indicate some sort of geographic location, rather than just tornado - for there are tornadoes in many many locations. 199.125.109.88 (talk) 02:37, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I was not aware there was another move sorry for not mentioning that. However back to the main reason for doing this as stated at Wikipedia:WikiProject Severe weather/Tornado, "If more than one name is in common use, that used by NOAA or an official weather agency should take precedence except in extraordinary circumstances, with any other names a redirect." NOAA has named this "Severe Weather Outbreak of April 20, 2004", and also the "4/20/04 Outbreak in Illinois and Indiana" nowhere is it called the Utica tornado outbreak. That same project guideline (I am not sure if they ever had a convention) says that if there is no one accepted name then a geographic locale can be entered. In that case if users feel that just the date is not good enough then we can use a geogrpahic locale but one that better sums up the incident like the April 20, 2004 Midwest tornado outbreak or use a nickname like the April 2004 Grain Belt tornado outbreak. However using Utica makes little sense, as some of the tornadoes took place far away from Utica and in other states. I am curious if you think such a solution would be better. Oh and my fault on the caps its been switched. -Marcusmax(speak) 03:06, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: move to April 20, 2004 tornado outbreak or April 20, 2004 Midwest tornado outbreak. Do not support using a nickname like Grain Belt, which I'm not sure will add any understanding, but rather confusion. I live in the area and have never heard it referred to as the "grain belt" myself, doesn't mean it isn't just that it's not very commonly known as such, at least in the area.--IvoShandor (talk) 04:05, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I know this is an old discussion, but Support move to April 20, 2004 tornado outbreak. Any other name is likely original research, and I doubt this was the only tornado outbreak in April 2004, so the full date is needed. -RunningOnBrains(talk) 04:24, 10 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
 Done –Juliancolton | Talk 15:40, 10 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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