Talk:Tones and I

[Untitled]

How does Tones & I make her musical tracks? She's listed as "Instruments: Vocals". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.174.182.126 (talk) 00:45, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

One more week at No. 1?

The article currently has "breaking the all-time record for most weeks at number 1 by an Australian artist in Australia on 5 October 2019." Not to diminish the excellence chart performance of this single, the statement refers to the ARIA Charts singles but does not refer to any previous Australian charts. Specifically, it equals but does not break the then-record of 10 weeks set on 30 August 1971 by "Eagle Rock", which was released by Australian artists, Daddy Cool in May of that year. Her single needs to remain at No. 1 for one more week to justify the "all-time" record.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:05, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

She's done it: now has 11 weeks at number-one. The single is also the equal longest run at number-one on the ARIA Singles Chart by any solo female artist.

As from 16 November 2019, "Dance Monkey" has 16 consecutive weeks at number one – the longest stay at the top of any Australian singles chart for any artist. According to ARIA representative, "She has also topped the charts in 18 countries, including a record-breaking run by an Australian artist in the UK."shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:41, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

References

As specified above, the ARIA Chart is only from 1983-present. Earlier data from the 1940s-present is still valid. Peterschinkel (talk) 12:52, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Birthday

Source for birthday: Facebook. There are plenty more references to her birthday on her Facebook page. For example, in 2011 she is congratulated for her 18th birthday. Clausule (talk) 22:30, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

How do we get Wikipedia to delete her year 2000 birthdate on the initial knowledge panel that comes up from a Google search? Peterschinkel (talk) 07:55, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

At the bottom of the panel is the word 'Feedback'. Click it and edit it. I've already done this; let's see how long it takes them.--Launchballer 11:08, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Hi Launchballer. I also did this yesterday. Hopefully they'll pick up on it because some media reports around the world still saying she's 19. Peterschinkel (talk) 12:10, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 November 2019

I think she was born in 2000, not 1993. Source is her official page. 2001:4BB8:18C:3472:144D:9B9F:5D4E:D0B8 (talk) 00:18, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Her official page is not a reliable source. - FlightTime (open channel) 00:21, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

Her manager supposedly confirmed to a newspaper she's in her mid 20s and her friends wished her a happy 22nd birthday on Instagram on 13th May 2015. Also, on YouTube, check "Toni Watson" singing "I Wish I Was a Punk Rocker With Flowers In My Hair" in 2009. She was almost certainly more than 9 years old in that video. Peterschinkel (talk) 12:14, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Birthday, birthdate and US charting

> There is no clear evidence what year she was born

> There is no clear evidence what her birth date is - August, May, what next?

I propose you get rid of her birthday until it is established 100% what it is.

> She is number 19 on the Billboard Top 100 of the United States of America, https://www.billboard.com/charts/hot-100

> There is absolutely no evidence or confirmation regarding Tones' birth date and age, thus the information should be removed entirely so that the edit wars cease. I have personally heard rumours that reps have confirmed mid-twenties, and that she was congratulated on turning 18 in 2011, but absolutely no real proof that she is 19. I agree with the above, her age and birth date should be removed until confirmation is received. Kahliimah (talk) 07:11, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

I also agree with birthdate removal. And a small paragraph has been added about the speculation which will hopefully stop the edit wars. None of us should add content we do not know is definitely true. Peterschinkel (talk) 12:17, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Age

Age confirmed by reputable news source

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-7749145/How-old-Tones-Singers-real-age-X-Factor-past-revealed.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Meme Man Meme (talk • contribs) 14:02, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

The Daily Mail is not a reputable source and is the only site I have come across so far that Wikipedia will actually warn you about this before you can publish any edit with it as a citation. CAMERAwMUSTACHE (talk) 20:36, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

Please familiarise yourself with WP:RSP.--Launchballer 20:49, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

What is annoying is that wikipedia currently states two things about her birthdate and age. IMO as long as there is no reliable source, it should be marked as not known rather than have wkipedia speculate on it. Or someone simply ask her in an interview, to clear this up - I am pretty sure she would tell the truth when asked. It's not as if it is a mystic secret? The only place where people wonder is wikipedia. 2A02:8388:1641:8380:3AD5:47FF:FE18:CC7F (talk) 02:59, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

In her interview with Poppy Reid for Rolling Stone Australia, the artist has stated that she does not want to disclose her birth date. Her choice should be respected per WP:BLP.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 00:38, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

December 2020 edit

@Sarmiento 007: The article has had numerous edits concerning her age/birthdate/birth year. The content you added to this article takes a position based on a source already cited, currently ref [5]. Your speculation is considered to be original research. I have reverted your speculation: it repeats much of ref [5] but presents a non-neutral POV where other reliable sources provide alternative POVs. The article already has information on the alternatives without making any judgement on them. Furthermore, the artist does not want her date/year of birth published, see ref [6]. According to WP:BLPPRIVACY we have to respect her rights.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:09, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

@Shaidar cuebiyar if she does not want no reveal her age, that is her problem, this is an encyclopedia and every fact must be published. Is not a judgement nor a speculation, it's a concrete data. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sarmiento 007 (talk • contribs) 18:33, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

@Sarmiento 007: while wikipedia is an encyclopaedia not everything is published. You need to read WP:BLPPRIVACY, specifically dob etc is published only if "the subject does not object to the details being made public." However the subject of this article clearly does object and so this information should not appear in the article.

Also, please sign your posts to talkpages with ~~~~ so that your comments can be clearly attributed.–shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 22:47, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

@Sarmiento 007: Once again, I have removed your speculations from the article per discussion above. Please resolve the issue here and reach a consensus before you consider returning it.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 22:54, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

@Sarmiento 007: You've ignored my request to discuss the issue and reach a consensus before returning the material I objected to. Rather than continue an edit war, I ask you once more to discuss any issues you have here.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 00:39, 23 December 2020 (UTC)00:40, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

Incorrect chart positions

Hi all. Someone (can provide username) keeps incorrectly changing chart positions reached by Tones and I, particularly "Johnny Run Away" and "Never Seen The Rain" Is there a procedure for discouraging regular vandalism? Peterschinkel (talk) 12:49, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Much editing is continuing to put false chart positions on Tones' singles. Peterschinkel (talk) 23:10, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

Middle name?

According to article history, here, the artist's middle name first appeared in late December 2019. There was no reference supplied. An APRA AMCOS search provides Toni Watson (no middle name) for "Colourblind" see here and same for Search again (for any self-written tracks) with artist as either Tones and I or Toni Watson: no middle name. A similar search at BMI Repertoire, here, also gives no middle name. I will delete the middle name and ask for a better source to be supplied prior to its re-insertion.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:48, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

I agree. Peterschinkel (talk) 12:02, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Tones and I in 2019.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 18:37, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

opening paragraph makes no sense...

... particularly

In November of that year, she broke the record for the most weeks at number one on the ARIA Singles Chart by any artist with 16 weeks. By mid-January 2020, "Dance Monkey" had spent its 24th and final week at No.1, beating Bing Crosby's all-time Australian record for his version of "White Christmas", which spent 22 weeks (five months, namely June to October) at the top spot in 1943.

If the record was 16 weeks, and Miss I broke it, what was the 22-weeks record Mr Crosby held? I'm not going to correct it because I have no clue what it SHOULD read. But I have read the paragraph over and over, and it appears to be a self-contradicting paragraph.Robbmonster (talk) 01:40, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

The first record relates to the ARIA Singles Chart, which had been previously held by Ed Sheeran's "Shape of You", at 15 weeks. ARIA started making their own charts in mid-1989. Before that David Kent had issued the Kent Music Report, from May 1974. The chart performance of Bing Crosby's version of "White Christmas" was retroactively calculated by Kent, in 2006, from historical radio charts, which had appeared monthly back in the 1940s. "White Christmas" had held the top spot on Kent's charts for five months or 22 weeks.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 11:22, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for the reply. Things are clearerRobbmonster (talk) 10:27, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

This info needs to be added to the article because it is still confusing there. Also, there's no citation for this Crosby stuff. Thmazing (talk) 07:00, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

@Thmazing: I've tried to address this issue in both the Lead and main text. The latter has the relevant Kent Music Report book reference. I hope it reads clearer, now.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:32, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

Nice work! Thmazing (talk) 22:19, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Tones and I Tour 2020.png

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:37, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Paragraphing

@Peterschinkel: Consider MOS:PARA, "The number of single-sentence paragraphs should be minimized, since they can inhibit the flow of the text; by the same token, paragraphs that exceed a certain length become hard to read."

The last paragraph of the main text was split; thereby creating two short ones: both cover the month of May 2020. I believe this disrupts the flow of the text but instead of reverting this I ask the editor to discuss the matter here.

As for overly long ones (I'm guilty of this) consider ¶3 (starting with "Tones and I learned to play...") and ¶10 (starting with "On 1 February of that year..."). Is there anyway we can shorten these to make them easier to read?shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:28, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

I've had a go at adjusting ¶ sizes. Combining short ones, trimming or splitting long ones.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:14, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for the advice. I appreciate it. Peterschinkel (talk) 22:06, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

Discography

Consider Discographies style: Per-release, specifically No.6.5: "In the case of multiple charts, "comprehensive" does not necessarily mean an exhaustive list of countries and charts the artist has charted on. A limit of approximately 10 separate charts is suggested..." On 14 August 2020 @Marcecarjordan: added columns to both Extended plays and Singles (see here). With the success of "Dance Monkey" one could add some 70+ values for charting, which is seen at the single's own article. However her Discography section in this article is not the place for an "exhaustive list" per the guidelines cited above. The ten previously existing charts in the discography have been accepted by most editors for some time, Marcecarjordan should provide a case for removing some of the existing ones and replacing with the new ones rather than adding extra columns beyond 10. If such a case is not viable then the newer additions should be removed.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 00:51, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Her age

If she doesn't want to reveal her age is her problem, but this is an encyclopedia and it's our must to enlight the truth. We need to share that it's false that she was born in 2000 Sarmiento 007 (talk) 23:57, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

@Sarmiento 007:Consider Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons. This is a core policy of wikipedia. You seem to over-ride any concerns about original research, neutral points of view or presumption in favour of privacy.

I disagreed with your repeated insertions of content which appears to breach this policy.

1. You wrote "in 2013 being a young woman in her early 20s," "she would be 13, which clearly she wasn't" and concerning a 2009 video "when she was a teenager, so it's impossible that she was 8 years old." With Bond as the reference. (see here). As I indicated above, at December 2020 edit, the article has had numerous edits from people favouring one point of view over another, and you can see from comments on this talkpage that both her birthday and birth year have been changed back and forth. Your edits are original research in that you provide your opinion on Bond's article rather than presenting the facts, which this article already provides those facts (and uses Bond's article as a reference). I asked you to discuss these matters on this talkpage, both above and on your talkpage. You refused to discuss your edit or my objection to it and proceeded to return the content.
2. You present your opinions in a non-neutral manner. Besides the quotes above, you have stated, "It's been said that she was born in 1993" supported by the Bond reference. (see here) I reverted this (as well as content previously returned by you) and supported that removal with an edit summary, "Bond refers to reports in news media, both 1993 and 2000 are mentioned. However the artist has not confirmed either and does not wish to have her birth details published. WP:BLP" You ignored Bond's statements showing that 2000 has been mentioned in numerous media reports: remember, this was a previous value used by this wikipedia article, itself. Currently wikipedia should not favour either point of view, this is a matter of policy.
3. Your recent edits continue this pattern of non-neutral point of view, with "but this last date is unlikely due some photos and videos of Toni in the 2000s when she was a teenager" and "but this last date is impossible due some photos and videos of Toni in the 2000s when she was a teenager" earlier (see here). Your commentary is unnecessary, the current article refers to the same video but does not editorialise as to how old she appears. We should let readers reach their own conclusions on this.
4. Other possible breaches of BLPPRIVACY: You have written, "if someone does not want to reveal her age, because she feels old, even being a woman in her late 20s, it's her problem, but as far as I'm concerned, this is an encyclopedia and its mission is to put information at the service of people regardless of personal whims. I put the information with its respective source, so, it's not wrong," at my talkpage (see here) This totally ignores the artist's stated desire not to have birth details mentioned. Note the artist does not have to give any reason, as this is a matter of wikipedia's policies. You speculate on her reasons anyway. You have repeatedly ignored wikipedia policy on personal privacy. You write similar content on this page at December 2020 edit, above, and again most recently in this new section. Once again, you have totally ignored policy and refuse to consider you may be wrong. Please stop.

Your recent content should be removed.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 12:24, 25 December 2020 (UTC)12:43, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

The saga continues. Shipmaster agreed with my assertion that BLP violations may have occurred and removed Sarmiento 007's editorial commentary. However the latter then changed the main display to "born in 1993" and used Discogs and Kiddle as sources. Both of these source are unreliable with user-generated content. The latter uses wikipedia itself for its base content and so is a circular reference. Because of possible WP:BLP violation I will revert this edit immediately and again ask Sarmiento 007 to try to reach consensus on changes to the article.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:27, 26 December 2020 (UTC)05:53, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

• It's clear that Tones' age is a subject of contention. I've found two sources that describe her birth date: This one states she is 26 years old (making her birth year either 1993 or 1994, as the article was published in 2020) and this one describes her as being born in "circa 1993". Do with that information what you will, as both publications are considered reliable sources to my knowledge. Obviously she has stated she doesn't want to reveal her age, so if that ever changes, we can use these. Sean Stephens (talk) 00:22, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
• These two sources are too vague for a birth year. No birth date is given in either. Other reliable sources, described above, have been used for different birth years/dates. According to WP:BLPPRIVACY, "Consensus has indicated that the standard for inclusion of personal information of living persons is higher than mere existence of a reliable source that could be verified" and "editors may not include only one date/year for which they consider 'most likely'." The artist has stated she does not want to reveal her birth details.
• Aside: I have reverted a recent edit claiming a date has been confirmed: it uses Bond, which does not verify the date given.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:47, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Speculative birth years removed from infobox

@Fryboy Editor: your recent edits here, resulted in speculative years being placed in the infobox: "1993 or 2000 (sources differ)" What if neither is correct? Bond provides these values as the two most commonly seen ones online, when he wrote his article. Some months later the artist stated that she does not want to disclose her birth date/year and that "Everything is wrong online." (see ref [6]). Your edit implies her birth year could only be 1993 or 2000, however this has not been verified by a reliable source. I have removed the speculation as WP:OR and possible violation of WP:BLPPRIVACY. The years are mentioned in the main text as being reported by media but this does not mean that they are the only two possibilities.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:59, 29 January 2022 (UTC)