Talk:Tokyo Mew Mew/Archive 3

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Italian version

Since I'm currently adding the Italian version to the article, I will be crossing out stuff that has already been added. "THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!"

I'm just gonna put all stuff relating to the Italian version here. I'm not altering what you said, just moving it. So OBrasilo, it would be best to put info from the italian version here, for the sake of the other discussion not being so long.

• Just for reference, here I note the Italian versions of the attacks:

- Ribbon Strawberry Check: Fiocco di luce (Ribbon of light);

- Ribbon Mint Echo: Fiocco d'azione (Ribbon of action);

- Ribbon Lettuce Rush: Fiocco d'acqua (Ribbon of water);

- Ribbon Purin-gu Ring Inferno: Fiocco "Immobilizza" (Ribbon "Immobilize");

- Ribbon ZakuRoss Pure: Fiocco d'energia (Ribbon of energy).

And their weapons are called Fiocco di <Mew Mew's name here> (Ribbon of <Mew Mew's name here>) in the Italian weapons.

• OK, here you go for the Mews' weapons in the Italian version:

Ichigo/Mew Ichigo (Strawberry/Mew Berry in the Italian version)

Original weapon: StrawBell Bell.

Italian weapon: Fiocco del cuore (The heart's ribbon).

Mint/Mew Mint (Mina/Mew Mina in the Italian version)

Original weapon: Mint Arrow.

Italian weapon: Fiocco di Mina (Mina's ribbon).

Lettuce/Mew Lettuce (Lory/Mew Lory in the Italian version)

Original weapon: LettuceTanets.

Italian weapon: Fiocco di Lory (Lory's ribbon).

Pudding/Mew Pudding (Puddy/Mew Puddy in the Italian version)

Original weapon: PuRing Ring.

Italian weapon: Fiocco di Puddy (Puddy's ribbon).

Zakuro/Mew Zakuro (Pam/Mew Pam in the Italian version)

Original weapon: ZakuRoss Whip.

Italian weapon: Fiocco di Pam (Pam's ribbon).

*Anyway, here are the transformation phrases from the Italian dub:

ミュウミュウストロベリーメタモルフォーゼ - Mew Mew Strawberry, Metamorphose

Italian dub: Mew Berry, metamorfosi! (Mew Berry, metamorphosis!).

ミュウミュウミントメタモルフォーゼ - Mew Mew Mint, Metamorphose

Italian dub: Mew Mina, metamorfosi! (Mew Mina, metamorphosis!).

ミュウミュウレタスメタモルフォーゼ - Mew Mew Lettuce, Metamorphose

Italian dub: Mew Lory, metamorfosi! (Mew Lory, metamorphosis!).

ミュウミュウプリンメタモルフォーゼ - Mew Mew Pudding, Metamorphose

Italian dub: Mew Puddy, metamorfosi! (Mew Puddy, metamorphosis!).

ミュウミュウザクロメタモルフォーゼ - Mew Mew Zakuro, Metamorphose

Italian dub: Mew Pam, metamorfosi! (Mew Pam, metamorphosis!).

And the Italian versions of the attacks, this time updated, with the Italian equivalent of Ribbon Strawberry Surprise added:

- Ribbon Strawberry Check: Fiocco di luce (Ribbon of light);

- Ribbon Strawberry Surprise: Fiocco di luce, massimo splendore (Ribbon of light, maximum shine);

- Ribbon Mint Echo: Fiocco d'azione (Ribbon of action);

- Ribbon Lettuce Rush: Fiocco d'acqua (Ribbon of water);

- Ribbon Purin-gu Ring Inferno: Fiocco "Immobilizza" (Ribbon "Immobilize");

- Ribbon ZakuRoss Pure: Fiocco d'energia (Ribbon of energy).

BTW, Pudding's sister is called Aìka in the Italian dub.

all of this info came from OBrasilo.

"THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!" 02:59, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

OK, one thing about the Italian dub. It seems, like I was wrong about the fact, that it preserves it setting as being Japan.

In episode 22, both references to yens were changed in the Italian dub - Mint's 200 yen per subject price was changed to 100 bows (which I'm sorry, but just makes no damn sense, seeing how they kept Ichigo saying that she refuses that, afterwards, which is just weird, because unlike 200 yen, 100 bows are not a physical possession, so it shouldn't have been a problem for teh Ichigo/Strawberry to pay Mint off with 100 bows per subject, really), and Shigorane's 2000 yen per suject price was changed to just 20 banknotes (20 bigliettoni in Italian).

Also, the part of Miwa being in Okinawa with her parents, was changed to her being just at sea with her parents. And some seconds later, they changed Miwa to ask Ichigo, what souvenir she wants her to bring her from the sea, rather than what present she wants her to bring her from Okinawa.

However, I find it rather weird, that they removed the two references to yens, and the two references to Okinawa, but then, in the exact same episode, they even kept the name "Moe" written in hiragana on Ichigo's cell phone.

This is now also making me doubt about, whether the last names really remained unchanged in the Italian dub. The point is - I read about that on the original site, and also judging from how they treated other anime's (e.g. Keroro no Gunsô, Naruto, Attacker You, and Doraemon), I guess it's quite plausible, but on the other hand, the Italian dubs of the afore-mentioned four anime's do mention both the first and last names in the anime itself, while the Italian dub of Tokyo Mew Mew doesn't.

However, also seeing, how all the kana and kanjis remained intact in the Italian dub, I still think that the last names could be the same as in the original anyway, albeit unmentioned in the anime itself.

Also, the name of Akasaka Keiichiro's ex. girlfriend, Rei, remained the same in the Italian dub.

Now that reminds me a lot of the "Sailor Moon" English dub. DiC tried to remove any hint that the show came from Japan, yet they often forgot to remove kanji/kana (and they even mentioned Tokyo at some point)... and the last names of the senshi weren't mentioned in the DiC dub at all... It's kinda hard to convince people that the story doesn't take place in Japan if one can see Japanese writing here and there.

Yume no Kishi

Metamorphosis or Metamorphose?

You know what else I wanted to add to the articles? The Japanese katakana spelling for the Mews' "Mew" names and other related stuff. The weapons' and attacks' names are mentioned in the articles, but not all of them, and their transformation sayings do not have katakana at all (by the way, I tend to use "metamorphose" instead of "metamorphosis", as it is more correct, but it is really not a big deal, it's not a bad mistake like "ribbon"). It seems to be rather hard to find this info on the Web, as they don't have much transformation phrases in the manga.

Yume no Kishi 10:04, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Here goes:

ミュウミュウストロベリーメタモルフォーゼ - Mew Mew Strawberry, Metamorphose

ミュウミュウミントメタモルフォーゼ - Mew Mew Mint, Metamorphose

ミュウミュウレタスメタモルフォーゼ - Mew Mew Lettuce, Metamorphose

ミュウミュウプリンメタモルフォーゼ - Mew Mew Pudding, Metamorphose

ミュウミュウザクロメタモルフォーゼ - Mew Mew Zakuro, Metamorphose

This stuff is from TCG cards.

Yume no Kishi 21:48, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

"You know what else I wanted to add to the articles? The Japanese katakana spelling for the Mews' "Mew" names and other related stuff."

^^ In a la mode, metamorphosis was changed to Metamorphose.....so another ENGLISH grammar mistake......geez, if you look at Tokyopop article, it says thay tend to have translation errors n such.......but In the Mew articles (except for beery) it will have to stay as metamorphosis...another thing ot go into the transaltion error section....

So far I've added katakana to their weapons and abilites. There should be too much kana, but just enough.

"THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!" 22:55, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually, you can clearly hear them saying Metamorphose (which, BTW, is the German word for metamorphosis) in the anime as well.

I also think they use Metamorphose, and not metamorphosis, because the word metamorphosis would become メタモルフォジス (ME-TA-MO-RU-FO-JI-SU), since there's no ZI sound in Japanese, thus changing the ZI-pronounced si syllable to JI, while Metamorphose stays the same in Japanese as well, as メタモルフォゼ (ME-TA-MO-RU-FO-ZE).

- OBrasilo 01:25, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Hey Yume no Kishi, or OBrasilo, could you give a summary on why "Metamorphose" is more correct than "metamorphosis"? Adding something from a summary makes it easier for me, thats all.

"THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!" 04:14, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Now that's a good question... I mean, I never thought about it, I just knew that it's "metamorphose"... Because the word "metamorphosis" ends with a consonant, which means that it would have an additional syllable when written in katakana, since no consonants can be lost when writing non-Japanese words in katakana, for in some cases omitting the consonant at the end can completely change the meaning of the word. (That's the same thing I was trying to explain when we were talking about "anima"/"animal"). Besides, the last syllable of the word "metamorphosis" sounds differently from the one in the word that the Mews use.

Yume no Kishi 07:51, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I got another user opinion on this and this is what he said:

They're both correct grammar, really. It's just that metamorphose is a verb and metamorphosis is a noun. So if you really wanted to be accurate then Mew Mew Metamorphosis would be the technique itself, while Mew Mew Metamorphose would be what they are doing when they use it. As for which makes the better henshin name, I'm not sure. (Are the other moves verbs or nouns?):

Now in not sure when the say their henshin, it refering to the techinique or what theyre doing.

"THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!" 23:23, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

It sounds closer to "Metamorphose". Verbs, nouns... the result is the same. If you want an example of using a verb in a henshin phrase, then Minako in "Code name: Sailor V" says "Moon Power Transform". Anyway, another interesting thing.

メタモルフォーゼ (n) metamorphose;

(This is from some online Japanese-English dictionary.)

The word possibly CAN be translated as "metamorphosis", though, but the kana is still closer to "metatamorphose", so it depends on whether we want to translate it closer to the original or more grammatically correct. The Japanese spelling probably came from some non-English version of the word. So, it isn't technically a translation error, just another interesting thing to make a note about.

Yume no Kishi 00:24, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

As I already said some posts above, the Japanese spelling came from the German word Metamorphose, which is German for metamorphosis. I can confirm this not only through a German guy I know, but also through the fact, that other words, mainly those, which end in -sis, were "imported" into Japanese from German, rather than from English. For example, the Japanese word for thesis is TEEZE, which comes from the German word These, which is German for thesis.

As for the reason for that, I already said it above as well - it's that the -sis ending of those English words, is pronounced as [-zıs] in English, and, since there's no ZI sound in Japanese, it would, by both Japanese rules, and Japanese logic, become -JISU in Japanese, thus altering the pronunciation of the word too much. On the other hand, the ending of their German counterparts, -se, is pronounced as [-ze] in German, and there IS a ZE sound in Japanese, thus they were able to import the word, without having to alter its pronunciation.

I also now moved the whole metamorphosis vs. Metamorphose discussion down here, just in order to make it easier to follow. - OBrasilo 02:34, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

The Japanese to have a "zi" sound, ぢ, and "zu" づ, and their katakana counterparts, but I assuming they dont use them that much, and it depends on the rominization system [1] (bottom of page). So I guess I could leave a note that "Metamorphose" would be more correct yes?

"THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!" 03:28, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, it still translates to "metamorphosis", so it's not a mistake at all. But the origin of the Japanese spelling of the word is a good thing to mention. I believe I'm not the only person who noticed something unusual in the way the Mews pronounce this word.

Yume no Kishi 09:15, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok. I'll leave a note in the Translation error section, though it isn't the correct section.

"THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!" 14:48, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Deep Blue's origin

Just putting all info relating ot Deep Blue orgin here. "THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!" 07:09, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Deep Blue's articles look better now. By the way, I kinda begin to understand what was really going on in the last episodes.

Here goes:

"Deep Blue-sama's spirit lives within the DNA of this planet's humans, and humans inherited the long dormant spirit. And then when that spirit tried to wake up, there was no medium in which he could awaken. Until now, only the closest to human of Deep Blue-sama's three spiritual body parts, Aoyama and the Blue Knight, have appeared. Meanwhile, Deep Blue-sama's true spirit existed in an alternate dimension and called us here from our far off home planet. But now Deep Blue has awakened. Now the other two spirits are no longer useful to Deep Blue and have been erased forever."

This is how Honobono translated Pie's speech. Now, the first two sentences basically state that Masaya is only a medium, NOT Deep Blue himself. He just inherited Deep Blue, and Deep Blue may not have awaken inside him at all. However, this is not a coincidence. Remember that Aoyama was constantly hanging around Mew Ichigo. In the anime, it is shown that Ichigo's emotions can control Mew Aqua. I believe THIS is why Blue Knight's powers were connected to Ichigo's, since it is revealed in the last episode that he had Mew Aqua inside him. That's why Aoyama first gain the ability to become the Blue Knight, and then turned into Deep Blue. Blue Knight's powers obviously come from Deep Blue's spirit, which would explain his appearance and the fact that he lost his powers after Deep Blue was killed. Too bad that such things aren't stated explicitly in the original sources. So, Pie's statement that the Mew Mew's existanse is what helped Deep Blue to awaken earlier is kinda true, if you think about it.

Now, the question is why Pie (and later Deep Blue himself) called Masaya a part of Deep Blue, since this is where it gets confusing. I think it's just because they don't view Masaya as an independent person, since they actually despise humans. That's just a theory, though. But the aliens apparently thought that Masaya's own soul was simply destroyed in the process of Deep Blue's awakening. This information don't have to be put in the articles, since it can't be proved, but all the confusing statements shouldnt appear in the articles either.

And here's the funniest thing. Notice that Pie said that Deep Blue lived within DNA of humans. What does it mean? - Masaya is human. Simple logic. Pie also said that Deep Blue is a spirit. Combining the two statements makes one wonder how can a human 13-year-old boy be a part of an ancient spirit (unless Pie means just his soul, but it is shown in the last episode that Masaya's own spirit exists separately from Deep Blue and is still able to claim the ownership of his body).

And this "three spiritual body parts" thing is just... there.

Though one should be careful with using this info, because at that point in the anime, out of the three aliens, Quiche was the only one to suspect that Deep Blue was actually plotting something different than just helping them to erase humans from the planet to make the Earth their home once again. Seeing how Pie and Quiche were killed when trying to stop him, I don't think he cared for them at all, he just wanted to take over the Earth... and what was he saying in the first few episodes?.. that he couldn't forgive humans for soiling the beatiful planet. Yeah, right... and after awakening he just began to destroy EVERYTHING, not only humans. Ichigo even says in episode 51 that she'll protect the Earth that Aoyama loves so much, meaning that Deep Blue is apparently going to destroy it instead of saving it.

Unfortunately, this is the only point in the anime where the thing is explained, and since the anime appears to be one of the very few sources that can be count as official... well, we had to use this explanation as a source of info, even if this info is somewhat confusing.

Does the manga say anything about Deep Blue's origin, by the way?

Yume no Kishi 08:17, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Just for you to understand how bad the situation with Deep Blue is, here are some of Deep Blue rumors I've seen on TMM sites (there may have been more, but I didn't write them down).

* Deep Blue IS Masaya.

Yes, a spirit from another dimension and a human boy are the same... Even Pie didn't say such nonsense, though the rumor obviously stems from misunderstanding his speech.

* Deep Blue posessed Masaya in episode 49.

People, if it was so... how would you explain the Blue Knight's appearance (half-alien, half-human)?

* Deep Blue is the evil alter-ego of Masaya.

This one makes more sense, but Masaya apparently wasn't the first and the only person inside whom Deep Blue lived. Look at Pie's explanation once again.

To make things worse, none of these theories are confirmed by the original sources. The reason why I want to make the thing clear is because Wikipedia can be edited by anyone, and since people have different theories about this thing, it usually leads to contradiction between different TMM articles, as one may change something on one page and forget to change it on another page. The result we have already seen.

Some of Tokyo Mew Mew fans seem to be confused about Deep Blue's origin. On many sites one can find statements about Masaya and Deep Blue being the same person, or about Masaya being posessed by Deep Blue in episode 49 of the anime. The first one seems ridiculous for several reasons. In episode 50 Pie basically calls Deep Blue a spirit that lives inside DNA of humans, so one may wonder how can a human boy and a spirit be the same. Besides, it is shown at least in the anime that Masaya's own spirit exists separately from Deep Blue, so it's hard to say that the two are the same. As for the second theory, if it was true, there would be no reason for the Blue Knight to look like he is half-alien, half-human, since Masaya himself doesn't seem to be an alien.

(Again, I can judge only by what was said in the anime, so I'm not sure if it is so. And Pie's anime explanation is... yeah... you know... ^_^;;;)

Yes you did, but I tend to work better from a short summary, then I add other things, like the "three spiritual body parts", and the other stuff. Just works better for me.

Looking at the manga, apparently Masaya (speaking as the Blue Knight) never knew his real parents. He was he first real memory was living at an orphanage. He then says they being good was a survival tactic and that deep down he doesnt like humans. then he talks about how Ichigo was different from the other humans which is why he loves her. Then it looks like he wakes up from this reminansence then says he has to see Ichigo.

After he finds her they both help Zakuro find the Mew aqua then she destroys the dome. after, while still the blue knight turns into Deep Blue. Kish says the Blue Knight has awakened as Deep Blue. Kish, Tart and Kish, then gather around him with kish saying "you have finally shown us your true face, master deep blue", and tart saying "I...well, umn...we've been waiting for you to wake up for a long time"

ryou inanother panel exclaims "is he awake?!" then says he wishs who knew who was Deep Blue eariler.

much later kish called him his messiah. then after the duel with kish, masaya wakes up (still deep blue) wondering whats going on n such. then he says the mew aqua is inside him. then deep blue re-awakes (...) and says "the real owner of this body is me!". then it looks like deep blue is conflicting with masaya. after that he says he deleted masaya consciousness. after he is close to destroying tokyo, masaya is shown kinda spirital like saying he will release the mew aqua in side deep blue, then stabs himself/deep blue.

I believe all of this lead to the confusion of Deep Blue's orgin.

ps. I finally created an article for the blue knight. it more of a start.

"THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!" 05:23, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

The story seems to be basically the same as in the anime... anyway, Deep Blue himself implied that he is not Masaya, and again it is shown that Masaya's own soul exists separately from Deep Blue, so...

There is one point in the last episode that can be seen as confusing, though I personally didn't have much problem with it. After Masaya comes to himself (he's still in Deep Blue's form), he looks around trying to understand where he is and why, and upon seeing total chaos (including Kish's dead body) he kinda remembers what happened to him, and he begins to blame himself for all this. Mew Ichigo tries to comfort him by saying that he wasn't the one who did all this, but Deep Blue was. Masaya thanks her, but then says it doesn't help because he was Deep Blue, and he, as Deep Blue, did all these terrible things.

To look at this, it may seem like Masaya admits that he is Deep Blue, but after that he actually keeps referring to Deep Blue in the third person. I believe that what he means is that he wasn't able to stop Deep Blue from destroying everything. (After all, Deep Blue was using his body.)

The whole ree-bo-n thing, true or not, is getting way too much focus.

As it stands, the "Translation errors, mistakes, and possible spoiler mistake" (What's a "possible spoiler mistake" anyway?) may or may not be true. I don't really care that much. What it definitely is, however, is HUGE. It goes into way too much detail for something that is not The Most Important Thing Possible about the subject, violating neutrality policy by focusing too much on a tiny portion of an issue. --tjstrf talk 22:23, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure it is getting too much foucs, as only one person is constantly trying to delete it, but I asked my Japanese teacher about リボーン, she said it was "reborn" so I cant say it isnt, as I'm not fluent and not native. I was thinking that it could be a separate article...

The reason why it was so much info about it is cause it is something it is very new, and would need alot of info to back it up. I mean, the mew's weapons and "chimera anima" are already heard of, which is why there isn't alot about them.

It could go into it's separate article... "THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!" 23:13, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

No, it couldn't be it's own article because it's original research. There are absolutely no reliable sources to be had which discuss this. If anything, it would merit a one or two sentence mention in a larger article about the series. It certainly doesn't deserve a section that's bigger than 50% of the articles on Wikipedia. Unless some reliable sources can be found within the next week or so, I'm leaning toward slashing the entire section. It's insane the amount of time that's been spent on this. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 23:21, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. The exact translations of their names are not that important. Unless a source is found soon, I don't see any point in keeping it, and if it is kept, it'll have to be trimmed down. (Longer than 50% of the other articles? Sheesh....) --MessengerCrow13 ~Listen*To*Your*Heart*Beat~ *talk*contributions* 18:24, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

It's not our fault that Tokyopop made so many translation errors -_-;;;. The "ribbon/reborn" mistake is just really stupid, and can lead to confusion, if one happens to find this word in another manga. The reason why we inserted so much info is because this section regularly gets deleted, so we had to insert some examples... Yume no Kishi

Let's not forget Tokyopop is known for making mistakes...the manga is littered with mistakes. Not our fault...guess we shouldnt have said anything... "THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!" 02:15, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

If the section is getting deleted, it's vandalism, so contact an admin. There's no need to write and artcle-lengh on something on minimal importance that could be summarized in one or two sentences. And if TokyoPop supposedly made so many translation errors, then why are there only four listed? --MessengerCrow13 ~Listen*To*Your*Heart*Beat~ *talk*contributions* 18:07, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Just because I don't have Tokyopop manga to search for other mistakes. :P I believe there is much more... By the way, we almost found a reliable source, so I think if we add a citation one day, then the explanation can be shortened. And you obviously haven't seen the full version of this section. ~_^ I also think that the one in the TMM article is too long. But seeing how many people are confused by these mistranslations, I believe this thing is still worth mentioning. Also, there are way too many people who believe Tokyopop. An example of this that occures sometimes is changing "Chimera Anima" to "Kirema Anima", even though this one is obvious, as the word "Kirema" doesn't even exist... Yume no Kishi

The person who deleted the section about Ichigo's age kinda proves that you can't summarize it in 1 or 2 sentences. It will end up being deleted, because they think there isn't enough to show this is correct, and this is not. "THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!" 01:00, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

---

For the love of good, why in the world is the ribbon nonsense on every main character's page? Frankly, I think that and most of the information similar to it should be removed or at least moved to a trivia section of-or some sort. Especially troubling is the comparably enormous paragraph about some supposed "controversy" over one of the character's ages, when it seems to me it simply means said character probably entered the grade early (or in any case, doesn't really matter, since it's a work of fiction anyway). Sarrandúin ^{[ Talk + Contribs ]} 16:59, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Is the Italian version really necessary?

Is it really necessary to include the Italian version in this article? I thought that other anime/manga articles only discuss the Japanese and English releases only, and list everything else under International versions...

But how exactly does the Italian Version of TMM differ from other versions like German, French, Spanish, Russian, Portugese etc????

Renaika56 I think the Italian Version is necessary...I mean SOME THINGS JUST NEED TO BE DUBBED!!Ichigo's voice REALLY needed to be & some people don't have computers to watch the Jap. version or the English version, some Italian's don't even know English!So they rely on the Dub's...

RedEyesMetal 21:23, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, it had to do with censorship/changes and such. Italian anime dubs usually undergo some changes, and it's not only characters' names, seeing how they removed some references to yens and Japanese cities. French "Sailor Moon" was censored, and they apparently do it with all anime, so I suppose there were some changes, too. German version would be uncensored for the most part, I believe. Russia doesn't have "Tokyo Mew Mew", but it would be uncensored, too (maybe just poorly translated). Italian dub is just another interesting thing to mention in the articles.

Yume no Kishi

The French, Spanish, and Portuguese versions of Tokyo Mew Mew are just non-English dubs of the 4Kids version (even the names in those versions are still the 4Kids ones, as well as the opening is just the 4Kids' version's original opening, dubbed into those languages).

There's no German version, and I don't know about a possible Russian version.

On the other hand, the Italian version is a different dub, which is notable (like it's usual with Italian versions of the anime's), that, while it's still cut and censored, that wasn't done to the extent, to which it was done in the 4Kids version - all the episodes retain the exact same sequence of the events, even the original score is kept, only most of the names are changed, and some questionable scenes (such as Mint's attraction to Zakuro) are cut short, and usually deliberately changed:
E.g. while in the original version of episode 18 (I think), Mint, when talking to Ichigo, went all "Zakuro-oneesama", and how she's happy, just to be near her, clearly showing her obsession with Zakuro, the Italian version modified it for her to say, that he's around Zakuro (or Pam in the Italian version), because Pam is famous, and thus has a lot of admirers, so if she (Mint/Mina in the Italian version) stayed around Zakuro/Pam, she would certainly get a boyfriend.

Also, from what I saw, all references to Japan, were removed from the Italian version, and in one of the 30+ episodes (the one, where Mint's old, orange-haired, rival girl appears), they changed the mention of the "Aizawa tea parties" to "the parties by Mina's family".

Though I read on many sites, that, behind the "scenes", their last names are still the original ones, so probably they just don't mention them in the anime itself (also, it's not, like they mention any alternate last names in the anime itself).

So, what makes the Italian version different, is the mere fact, that it's a version of its own, and not based on the 4Kids version (unlike the French, Spanish, and Portuguese versions, which are). ;) - OBrasilo 19:24, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Then that's really interesting. I personally think that re-dubbing some version dubbed into another language is not a very good idea. Usually dubs (especially censored dubs) contain many translation errors, and when they are re-dubbed, most of these errors stay in the script, accompanied by new errors made by translators.

This is the reason why I mentioned Russian anime dubs here. In Russia, anime usually isn't censored at all, unless it is dubbed from North American adaptation, so all video usually stays the same. However, in case of the Russian Sailor Moon, there was something really weird about the dub.

The first series... don't know whose idea it was, but... Well, I have a suspicion that the scripts from North American Sailor Moon were used. The video was still original, but some episode titles and monsters' names obviously come from NASM. I suppose it was easier for the dubbing company to translate the script from English, than from Japanese... and they apparently tried to adapt the series for small children, which would explain some name changes. (You can read about this in the Sailor Moon Wiki aka Project Wikimoon.) This all lead to the scripts being screwed up in some places.

The second and the third series they had to dub from the original, and I think those were the best Russian-dubbed episodes.

The fourth and the fifth series were dubbed much later and by another company. From German version... This is where it becomes really interesting. You may think that it's still easier to translate the script from German than from Japanese, but the dub of these episodes was even worse! They messed up with some characters' gender, made a lot of mistakes, and the translation of the attack names was much more screwed up. Seems that they couldn't decide if it is really a good idea to translate it from German, or better use the original Japanese version (Japanese sound is kept in both versions, and German translation was removed from Russian dub).

Seeing how no video was cut, I suppose it's not the worst case, but I believe that by Russian standarts it was just as bad as NASM.

I believe this is what happens to any anime dub that is based on the version that is already dubbed into another language. Since most of Tokyo Mew Mew dubs are just Mew Mew Power redubbed, they probably keep all translation errors and changes that were in Mew Mew Power, and add some new ones, making the dub even more screwier. The Italian version has changes that are "original", and the mistakes are also "original", not related to those in Mew Mew Power, so the Italian dub is kinda unique. ^_^

Italian version names, and their spelling

OK, this is the home page of Mediaset, the TV network, of which the channel Italia Uno (which airs Tokyo Mew Mew) is a part of: http://www.mediaset.it/brand/italia1/mew_mew/schedaprogramma_2308.shtml .

Seems like I was wrong about the spelling of Pudding's Italian name - it's actually Paddy, not Puddy; also corroborated by the Italian title of the episode, which is airing on Italia Uno right now - it was clearly spelled there as Paddy.

Also, Kisshu/Quiche's name's correct Italian spelling seems to be Kisch.

Btw, Yue-Bin's name remained the same in the Italian version, and all the characters' ages are also the same (I just heard Ichigo/Strawberry & Co. referring to Pudding as a an 8-year-old little girl (una bambinetta di 8 anni); even though their voices still don't really fit their ages). - OBrasilo 16:43, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Strange spelling for Pudding's name... I thought that if anything, it would be Paddi, it's somewhat strange for me to see the letter "y" used for this sound in the Italian language... "Kisch" looks more like a German name than Italian... and I don't really know if keeping Pudding's age also means keeping other girls' ages... Yume no Kishi

Chimera Anima(l)s: Here we go again

(aka Predasites) I don't know which side to take on this. It's either: with L, or no L. --Addict 2006 00:21, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Doing it by the book

OK, first of all, it's been made clear to me that every time I delete anything from the "mistakes" section, it's going to be reverted, and every time that I argue that something belongs elsewhere, nobody is going to agree, so instead I'm going to try to ensure that what is there is up to code. So here goes.

Under WP:V, we are permitted to point out the differences between two versions of the same thing because we can cite the original media as a source. However, under WP:OR we are not permitted to draw conclusions or to make suppositions that were not first published by an authoritative source (fan sites are not authoritative, statements by the author, publisher or translators are). This means that we can safely say that she is X years old in 1 and Y years old in 2, based on the WP:V value of the Manga/Anime alone. However, we cannot even attempt to say why this is without a WP:RS to back up what we say.

Avoiding supposition

In

When first published in Nakayoshi, Ichigo's age was given as X and her school grade was given as Y, but when published by TP, they were given as A and B.

Out

1) When first published in Nakayoshi, Ichigo's age was given as X and her school grade was given as Y, however, Tokyo pop mistakenly translated this to C and D.

This is out because, "Mistakenly" is a supposition or conclusion that is not backed up by WP:RS, making it WP:OR. Put simply we can't prove that this was done accidentally so we can't say that it was.

2) When first published in Nakayoshi, Ichigo's age was given as X and her school grade was given as Y, however, Tokyo pop translated this to C and D. This may have been a mistake, or may have been to appeal to a different audience demographic.

This is out because, we are introducing two suppositions (that it was a mistake, or that it was deliberate) that are not backed up by WP:RS, making it WP:OR. Put simply we can't prove why it was done so we can't introduce possible reasons.

Cannon stream

When pointing out the differences we must be careful to only compare appropriate cannon streams. If one stream is based on another, then it can be contrasted, if one stream is a second version of another then it can be compared. However, we should be careful not to cross streams that are neither parallel nor derivative.

The Japanese Anime is a derivative of the Nakayoshi Manga. One was made using the other as a guide, so they can it can be contrasted against teach other. The TP Manga is a translation of the Nakayoshi Manga, so they can be compared. The 4Kids Cartoon is a derivative of the Japanese Anime. One was made using material and plot from the other, so they can be contrasted.

However the TP Manga is based on the Nakayoshi Manga, not the Japaneses cartoon, so the TP Manga and the Japanese cartoon can neither be compared nor contrasted. Likewise, the 4Kids cartoon is based on the Japanese Anime whielthe TP Manga is based on the Nakayoshi Manga, so the 4Kids cartoon and the TP Manga cannot be compared or contrasted to each other. Yes, they all share a common ancestor and tell the same story, but they are not directly related enough to compare/contrast. This might sound harsh, but too many people have been involved in between these different versions for them to be directly compared/contrasted.

Unrelated media

Using unrelated media for comparative purposes falls under WP:OR as you are introducing the supposition that two different Manga/Anime are using the same universal rules/logic. What happens in Sailor Moon (for example) stays in Sailor Moon.

For example.

Out

Yusagi was X years old when she was in Y Grade so......

This is out because there were different writer and different translators, and there is no rule saying that what happens in one Manga must also happen another, or even match reality.

FYI: Tokyopopo translated the Sailor Moon manga, but was known as Mixx. That is why a note about her. "THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!" 00:41, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

In brief

• We can't say that it was a translation error, or a deliberate alteration, unless we have WP:V/WP:RS backing us up.
• We can't compare it to other Manga/Anime because they might be set in different universe with different grading systems, or one or the other might simply have a writer who doesn't care about age/grade accuracy etc.
• We can't compare/contrast the TP Manga to the Japanese Anime because there is a layer of difference in between.
• We can say that differences exist
• We can say what they are
• We can say that it was a deliberate/accidental change IF we have an authoritative source saying this.

perfectblue 08:38, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Source Material

Does anybody here have the Manga in Japanese? Preferably the serialized Nakayoshi version rather than the later compilation editions.

I feel that it is important that we establish where the "mistake" over Ichigo's age was made. Was it in the original edition and carried over in the translation, or is the translation actually different from the original.

perfectblue 14:46, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Didn't you say that you wernt argueing about her age in Yume no Kishi's talk page and jsut about how it should me somewhere else? And here you are argueing about it?? "THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!" 20:57, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Let me clarify. I'm not arguing about what her age is, what it should be, or why it is like it is. I'm seeking clarification of what each individual media says. This isn't an argument, it's just clarification so that I we can be sure that the page is accurate.

perfectblue 21:02, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

hidden user comment

Regarding this hidden comment left on the main page.

"As if the section about alterations in Mew Mew Power doesn't have such statements... So it is OK to say that many fans did not like "Mew Mew Power", even though there are those who like it simply because it's in English... but it's not OK to say they didn't think the manga translation to be accurate? I'm pretty sure there are people who have no clue what these words mean"

"As if the section about alterations in Mew Mew Power doesn't have such statements....."

Content is just as bad there as it is here. The only difference is that nobody has pointed it out yet.

"so it is OK to say that many fans did not like "Mew Mew Power"......"

It's OK, if you can cite it.

"but it's not OK to say they didn't think the manga translation to be accurate?"

Again, this can be said, but not in the way that it is currently being said. As it is currently written, this section is a WP:OR and WP:V violation, but it doesn't have to be. It can be re-written to be entirely self citing. It's all in the wording.

"I'm pretty sure there are people who have no clue what these words mean"

Yes, but it's excusable.

perfectblue 09:15, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

confirmation

Does anybody here actually "OWN" the Manga of TMM in Japanese?

If you do, could you see your way to scanning Ichigo's introduction so we can prove that TP is different. Doing so would satisfy WP:V and WP:RS by showing an object example of the two side by side.

perfectblue 14:43, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Ichigo's age in the manga, and TokyoPop's mistake(s)

I think I have a plausible explanation, as for why TokyoPop's English translation of the Tokyo Mew Mew manga has Ichigo being 11 in the beginning - it's because of kana mis-reading.

I mean, most probably, the original manga had Ichigo introducing herself as chuu-ichi (being in the first grade of Junior High), but somehow, the TokyoPop translators mis-read it as juu-ichi (eleven), basically "giving birth" to this mistake.

Now, how could this have occurred? Now, let's see. The syllable chu is written in both hiragana and katana, as chi + a small yu. And if you add a dakuten (voicing mark) to the chi, what do you get? An alternate kana for ji (though commonly used as either di, or zi), thus just by mis-reading a dakuten (it could have slipped from another line), one of the translators could have thought, that it belongs to that particular syllable, which he then mis-read as either ju, dyu, or zyu.
Then, they told the reading of that syllable to another translator, who, having not seen its original kana representation, just assumed it to be the normal ju, thus assuming the word to be juu-ichi, and thus, translating it as eleven.

But even, if there was no kana mis-reading, when passing a word between the translators, one could well have mis-heard the chu as ju, and then well did the assumption, per my above-mentioned scenario.

I'm saying this, because the ch and j sounds in Japanese are sometimes quite difficult to distincet. For instance, when Yoichi in Ring (Ringu) (1998) calls his grandfather ouji-chan, I always used to mis-hear it as ouchi-chan, until I learned the word ouji.
Not to mention, that I have also read here, of people mis-hearing the chuu-ichi in Ichigo's introduction in the first episode of the anime, as juu-ichi, so this also adds to the plausibility of my theory.

And anyway, not being a TokyoPop employee, and not having read the original Japanese manga either (though, I'll soon read a fan-scanlation of it), it's impossible for me to know, what exactly happened with that particular word during its translation, so I'm just assuming stuff here, so, please, don't take this theory of mine as 100% fact - right now, it's nothing more, than a theory. ;) - OBrasilo 11:21, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Aren't numbers almost alway written in Kanji, not Kana?, the same with deliminaitons of grade or age? I "REALLY" think that we need a copy of the original before we commit to anything.

It doesn't matter how plausible (or true) your hypothesis is. Without WP:V to back it up, it's still WP:OR.

perfectblue 14:32, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

1. I never claimed that my theory is 100% fact - actually, I clearly said, that I'm not sure of how true it is, so I leave it to dispute.

2. Read my post very carefully - I was saying, that the error occurred in a possible "second pass" - that is, one read the grade number (being written in either kana, or kanji), chuu-ichi, asked another translator, how to translate it, the other translator mis-heard the chuu-ichi as juu-ichi, and told the first translator, that the translation is eleven, which is in fact the correct translation of juu-ichi, but not of chuu-ichi, since chuu-ichi means the first grade of Junior High. - OBrasilo 15:14, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I read your hypothesis and understood what you were trying to get accross. I'm not arguing how correct it is, or isn't.

1) I'm telling you straight up that you simply CAN'T write this on the main page unless you have a WP:V to back it up. WP:OR expressly forbids you from hypothesizing on your own, you can only report on something that somebody WP:RS has already hypothesized. 2) I'm requesting that we confirm that actually IS a difference between TP and Nakayoshi. Right now, for all the both of us know, this "mistake" might have been made in the original version and translated literally by TP.

All that I'm asking is that somebody pick up a copy in Japanese and post a scan verifying what the original version says.

perfectblue 16:38, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

You're right, we still need to corroborate any existing hipothesis, before simply putting it onto the main page.

However, I also forgot to mention, that I never intended to write this idea on the main page. Actually, I intended it exclusively for the Talk page, so that people can discuss it (and it still bothers me now, as for why I can only see this particular section of the Talk page, after I log on :s).

So, don't worry, because no, I'm NOT going to write this idea of mine on the main page, unless we can corroborate it. ;) - OBrasilo 18:12, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Too much "Ribbon/Reborn"

Aren't we getting way too much into this "ribbon"/"reborn" thing? All we need is one or two sentences in the attack sections explaining that it's "reborn" and Tokyopop misread the similar-looking katakana, not a whole bunch of paragraphs explaining the difference between "ribbon" and "reborn" over and over again including pictures and examples from other mangas. I can see you guys have put a lot of hard work into it, but it's just going over the top. --Candy-Panda 02:53, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Who is this "we" if only me and Yume have worked on in it? It already discussed that due to vandalism and is a something no one knew about, it has to be explained. I don't see how it you can explain how all of it into one or two sentances.

"THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!" 07:38, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

• It's okay, Yume no Kishi explained to me about the vandalism. I understand how immature some fans can get over something as small as whether the attacks are called "ribbon" or "reborn" and it makes sense that you guys would want to prove it to them that it's "reborn" once and for all to stop them vandalising the articles. It just looked a little over the top to someone who didn't know about the vandalism, that's all. --Candy-Panda 04:28, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Mint IS a lesbian

Yes, she is. This can be proved by some things.

1. In episode 18, I think (I don't remember the exact episode number, where it happened), when Ichigo and Mint were talking about boys, and Ichigo told Mint, that she doesn't have a boy, Mint went all, like "Zakuro-oneesama", and all.

2. In episode 43, Mint even told Zakuro, that she loved her. Now, I know, that the English world love has many meanings, but in this case, I'm referencing to what Mint told Zakuro in Japanese. She used the words suki or daisuki, which not only very often describe a romantic feeling, but are also the exact same words, that Aoyama-kun used towards Ichigo as well.

3. It's generally accepted, that Daidōji Tomoyo in Cardcaptor Sakura, is a lesbian, right? And there aren't even many hints about that, or at least, they're far less, than the hints of Mint's lesbianism in Tokyo Mew Mew. So, if, even with the very few hints, it's accepted that Tomoyo is a lesbian, then it should also be more than accepted, that Mint is a lesbian as well.

Anyway, feel free to discuss this thing here. - OBrasilo 13:02, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Well 4kids killed (changed) Mint/Corina's thought bubble in episode 16. --Addict 2006 13:59, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Dunno... I've always seen it as something different.

• In Episode 96 of Sailor Moon S Makoto appears to have a crush on Haruka (which resulted in other senshi suspecting her of being homosexual, though it isn't said explicitly); however, she admitted later that she just admired Haruka because she wanted to be like her (meaning that she sees Haruka as an older and more mature friend, and she can learn from her how to be beatiful and strong). Can you say Mako is a lesbian?
• I tend to translate "suki"/"daisuki" as "I like you (very much)", not "I love you". The reason is that there is a stronger expression, and Aoyama did say it to Ichigo in both anime and manga: "ai-shiteru". THAT is it. Before that, Aoyama said "sukidayo", which is also a stronger expression. Mint never said anything like that.
• Also, while Mint admired Zakuro even before Zakuro joined the team, she has gone completely crazy after that. No wonder! Just think about it: she probably did dream about meeting Zakuro, but could she imagine that she actually could get an opportunity to be near her so often? ANY fangirl would have gone crazy in her place.
• And... for goodness sake, she's a child! Mint is only 13. Haruka and Michiru, who were said to be lesbians by the author, were 16. Big difference!
• "Generally accepted" = "some people think so" = "original research" = "not something that should be discussed on Wikipedia".

夢の騎士^{Yume no Kishi - Talk}

Ummm... did you watch Cardcaptor Sakura? Tomoyo is A GIRL (and Sakura's best friend, no less), she likes Sakura (who is a girl as well), and never had a boyfriend (both her and Sakrua are only 10 after all). I think you probably mixed her up with the guy, that Sakura has a romantic relationship with in the end, Li Shaoran, who did have a girlfriend/fiancée before Sakura, his cousin Li Meiling, but never had a romantic interest in a guy.

Though Cardcaptor Sakura does have Yukito, who rejected Sakura, because he's gay, and already had a relationship with Sakura's older brother, Toya.

Also, in the Italian version of Tokyo Mew Mew, in episode 16, Mint (Mina)'s line was modified, so that instead of liking Zakuro (Pam), she just stayed around Zakuro (Pam), because Zakuro/Pam had a lot of fans, so she hoped that that would make it easier for her (Mint/Mina) to find a boyfriend. Certainly, if there was no lesbianism, the Italian dubbers wouldn't have changed that, would they?

Also, in Kashimashi ~Girl Meets Girl~, Yasuna also never gets past suki or daisuki with Hazumu, and neither does Hazumu with Yasuna, nor with Tomari, but yet they're known to have romantic interests in each other. And Hazumu also liked Yasuna, when he was a guy (note: he actually permanently turns into a complete girl, down to cellular level, in episode 1), so no doubt he had a romantic interest in her, both when he was still a guy, and after he turned into a girl.

So if Hazumu is a lesbian, then Mint, who also addressed Zakuro with the same phrase, with which Hazumu addressed both Yasuna and Tomari, that is, suki and daisuki, is also a lesbian.

So I see no evidence, that would conclusively say, that Mint is not a lesbian. Therefore, I'll still go with, that Mint is actually a lesbian, and has a romantic interest in Zakuro. - OBrasilo 15:36, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Read the last phrase I added, and I was still editing the thing. And no, I didn't watch CCS, though read a little manga, but yeah, Tomoyo's only ten... it's not the age when you can say for sure... I myself did have a close friend (a girl) whom I admired, at the age of 12-13. Can you say I'm a lesbian, not knowing anything else about me?

*Tries to get her mind off German and into TMM* Many fans think that Mint's a lesbian, but again, it has never been said for sure. The only option is to ask the authors. Naoko Takeuchi confirmed herself that Haruka and Michiru are lovers, so there is no doubt about it. And they were also older and more mature than Mint.

*Watched ep.16* Interesting... Notice what Mint's response was to. She actually scolded Ichigo for dreaming about Aoyama, which prompted Ichigo to say that Mint never had a boyfriend, and then Mint said about Zakuro, as if she was comparing her relationship with Zakuro to Ichigo's relationship with Aoyama. That's what many fans think. However, at that point Mint does not think Ichigo's feelings for Aoyama are real, and kinda taunts her for this. So... And they're still only 13, after all.

Also, nothing really can prove that Mint has romantic feelings to Zakuro. In episode 43, BTW, she was trying to fight Zakuro because she thought that Zakuro betrayed them, right? She was concerned about keeping the team together, not about being with Zakuro! And when she said she liked her... eh, doesn't Mint like all of her teammates? Zakuro just was special for her, because she was a fan of her, and so a sudden opportunity to be around her was like a present for her. She also said she liked her, when she was desperate to keep the team together no matter what, even if she had to fight Zakuro. That doesn't count as usual circumstances.

And the comparison like "A says X to B, A is Y, and C says X to D, therefore C is Y, too" doesn't work well. They're characters from different stories written by different authors, and we can't say if the same thing was implied. That's it. As to why Italian version removed those lines - eh, it doesn't prove the thing either: the translators obviously did fear that it can be seen as a homosexual relationship (and it can), but that's cultural differences, plus it isn't known for sure. BTW, in Sailor Moon S dub the references to Mako's "crush" on Haruka were also removed, and Mako's surely not a lesbian, as she herself said it. And I'll say even more - many of the rumors about characters' sexual orientation appear like this: fans think that if anything is cut, then it surely was something inappropriate. Umm... no. Not neccessarily. But since the possibility does appear to exist, I understand why it was cut. On an interesting note, I actually watched the original anime before learning about these rumors, and it just never occured to me that Mint can be homosexual. ^_^; A fangirl is a fangirl. (And when I watched "Sailor Moon" back when I was about 13-14, I could tell that Zoisite and Kunzite or Haruka and Michiru are lovers.)

When you said we can discuss the thing here, you were ready to object to any attempts to prove your opinion is wrong. I don't call it a discussion, more like... stating one's point of view, which other people may not share. You've already got an opinion from a girl who barely speaks English and has almost no time for editing Wikipedia because of studying. Other people don't seem to be interested. If you want more - go to any TMM forum, there'll be much more people to answer.

And I don't see why discuss the fan stuff here. There are forums for this. "Generally assumed"="fan stuff", unless it is certainly clear, as in case of Zoisite/Kunzite or Haruka/Michiru from SM. And a fan's point of view actually depends on whether anime in his/her country is censored or not. If you can't tell, I'm from one that doesn't censor anime, so I don't need to think why something was cut. I just watch it... as it is. Therefore I can judge only by what actually happens in a particular story.

Conclusion: I find this discussion completely pointless for the following reasons:

• One's opinion depends on many things, including the country one lives in (therefore, the degree of censorship).
• Comparisons to unrelated stories do not do any good, as it is not known what the authors of a particular story meant.
• Wikipedia is not the place for discussing these things.

夢の騎士^{Yume no Kishi - Talk}

I just wanted to note, that I watched all 52 episodes of Tokyo Mew Mew fan-subbed, by #honobono. And I also watched teh Kashimashi ~Girl Meets Girl~ fan-subbed, by the Spanish fan-sub group #nf. And I'm currently in the process of watching Cardcaptor Sakura, fan-subbed by Star.

Though you're right about one thing - fan stuff is not to be discussed here. - OBrasilo 16:19, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Note: Edited my signature above, because the above post actually was by me, I only forgot to log in. - OBrasilo 16:19, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I think everyone adamantly insisting Mint is a 100%-without-a-shadow-of-a-doubt lesbian should listen to these points.

1. Note that Mint looks up to Zakuro as a SISTER. She calls Zakuro "oneesama", which generally means "elder sister". Also, she never blushes or anything when telling Zakuro she loves her, something anime characters typically do when confessing romantic feelings. There's more than one way to love someone, and the Japanese obviously grasp this concept better than most English-speaking viewers, especially considering how many yaoi/yuri-obsessed fangirls with their fanmade "OMG CANON" pairings there are...

2. Mint is shown to be a fan of Zakuro, and she really idolizes her. This makes sense as Zakuro is a celebrity. It seems FAR more likely that Mint is simply a rather obsessed fangirl.

3. It's worth noting that 4Kids did a bit of editing in that scene from episode 16. She originally envisioned a girly-looking dancer guy. 4Kids, for whatever reason, replaced that image with a stock picture of Zakuro from episode 11.

4. She's 12--you can't label someone's sexuality that early. And in any anime, you'll need alot more evidence than same-sex hand-holding, hugging, or expressions of love, to prove a character is gay or lesbian.

Honestly. These theories make about as much sense as all the James-is-gay theories in the Pokémon fandom {but their evidence is ALWAYS dub-only, so they're even worse...}.

Okay, this is getting to be too much of a forum topic. Please stop talking fandom. --Addict 2006 14:37, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

More alterations in the Italian version

OK, another thing about the Italian version - it seems to have omitted episode 48. I mean, last week, I was recording all the Italian Tokyo Mew Mew episodes, that were aired that week, and strangely, the Italian TV channel, that airs it, Italia uno, aired a second Spongebob Squarepants episode, instead of Tokyo Mew Mew episode 48 (that is, that day, they aired two episodes of Spongebob Squarepants, instead of one Spongebob Squarepants episode, followed by one Tokyo Mew Mew episode).

So, I now wonder, why they did that. Does episode 48 have any content, that would have been considered objectionable in Italy? I don't know. All I know is, that Tokyo Mew Mew episode 48 was omitted from the Italian version. As for why - it's beyond me.

Also in episode 46 or 47 (I don't remember in which one now, exactly), an insert song with lyrics in Japanese, was replaced with either the Reborn Strawberry Check music, or another, very similar tune, in the Italian version. - OBrasilo 13:09, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Episode 48 is missed?! It's an important plot episode!!! (*Tries to remember without watching* I just came home after 7 hours of studying, so I do mess up things...)

Yeah, this is the last episode before Deep Blue's awakening. Kish figured out about the Blue Knight's powers, tried to kill Masaya, which resulted in the Blue Knight losing control on his powers. So there is pretty much violence and other scary scenes. The main thing is 1) where Aoyama gets beaten up by Kish, and 2) where the Blue Knight goes completely crazy and his energy destroys the whole mountain. I guess if anything, this is the reason, 'cause I see no way to just cut these scenes out. Though I wonder how they explained the stuff in the next episode... (*Watches episodes 47-49*) Well... seems that it is technically possible to skip 48 without affecting the plot, but for sure the last episodes are even more violent. 夢の騎士^{Yume no Kishi - Talk}

• Hi it's Hika Yagami and as you already know episode 48 was left intact. Oh and to answer your question the episode that replaced the Japanese music with the Strawberry Check theme was episode 47.

Hmm

Maybe this is just me but I've noticed another difference between Tokyo Mew Mew and Mew Mew Power. After looking at the screenshots from Mew Mew Power Uncensored, it looks like the screenshots of Mew Mew Power are fuzzier then the Tokyo Mew Mew. And, it looks like their skin tone is lighter [2]. I've also seen this with One Piece. I'm not sure if it is with mentioning, but it seems a little strange. "THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!" 17:05, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Ehh. Not. Maybe it's all because fansubbers have clearer picture receptors to grab higher quality stuff. And TV networks over here need to transmit the signal too, but for all I know, I also receive FOX the channel over here and I believe the quality may have diminished a bit... Anyway, it could well be the hardware and software used to convert and broadcast the video... (Same goes when Winx Club plays on 4Kids TV compared with YTV (TV channel).) --Why don't we end this right here so we don't potentially break the rule of the second box at the top, which I copied from Talk:Heroes (TV series), Addict 2006 21:40, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh. It just that every sceenshot screenshot comparing 4kid's version to the original anime it looked a little odd. "THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!" 01:57, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Fon Purin

Why is she referred to as Pudding throughout the articles? She's never called Pudding, but always Purin, at least in the anime (though #honobono did translate her name as Pudding).

I find it weird, that Purin's name gets always translated, that is, she's always called Pudding in English conversations, while Ichigo and Zakuro are never called Strawberry and Pomegranate in English conversatins (even though, coincidentially, Ichigo's name in the Italian dub is actually Strawberry). - OBrasilo 17:46, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Um... "Purin" is actually the Japanese pronunciation of "Pudding"... ^_^;;; And her name is actually Bu-Ling, 'cause she 's Chinese, but the Japanese pronounce this name just the same way as the English word "pudding". Mint and Lettuce have similar puns - read the articles carefully, there's one interesting thing about how the names are written in the manga, when the girls are in normal forms or in Mew forms. Ichigo and Zakuro have names derived from Japanese words, not English, therefore their names stay the same (in terms of romanization) anyway. And "Pudding" is what she is called in the English manga, that's why this name is used in the articles. 夢の騎士^{Yume no Kishi - Talk}

Mew Mew Power opening, when played backwards

Today, I found a YouTube video, with the Mew Mew Power opening, played backwards.

It's interesting to hear the words, that the backwards playing of this song gives us - it's basically a whole new, emo song, about teen pregnancy (and it's true, at least I was able to hear some clearly intelligible English words), complete with profanity (at one point, the singer complains, that they f**ked her up, and even later on, she sings the word sh**).

Now, I'm wondering - apart from the words I heard there, are all the words, that the poster of the video heard there, actually there? If yes, then why did Bree Sharp do that in the Mew Mew Power opening? - OBrasilo 18:21, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

^_^;;;;;;; That's an ancient joke that was applied at least once to every anime song... I've heard tons of them about "Sailor Moon" songs, both the original and those from NASM. It's not even funny already... 夢の騎士^{Yume no Kishi - Talk}

I. doubt. it. is. note. uh. ble. *Vader breathe*. --Addict 2006 04:01, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

So. please. don't. talk. uhb. out. it. eh. nee. more. --Addict 2006 04:02, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

That just made my day. Untill someone will say it can't be used in the articles (as if none of us didnt know that). But this one doesn't compare with the 4kids pokemon rap song backwards with people caliming they say "Hail Satan!"..... "THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED!" 04:14, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Possibly someone backmasked it just for fun and all, so this can't be notable! Anyway, I don't know anymore. But still, this subject may not be right. --Addict 2006 04:18, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Is it just me, or are we using this talk page for something... um... different from discussing things that are important for improving the article?.. 夢の騎士^{Yume no Kishi - Talk} 04:31, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Yume, please reply to my message. Anyway: That may be why I threw in those two boxes at the top there. (Keep a cool head, which is what I'm trying to do here; and discussing improvements to the MewMew article.) So let's just "drop the topic", as I say. --Addict 2006 04:35, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah... considering how many articles still need improvement, we shouldn't waste time on this... 夢の騎士^{Yume no Kishi - Talk} 05:07, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

French Version

---

I found out about 2 weeks ago that the French did something really interesting. After dubbing the first 26 episodes that 4Kids dubbed they decided to dub the rest of the series on their own. So the 2nd half of the French version of the series is practically uncut. They still kept the dub names and the title Mew Mew Power but from episodes 27-52 they keep all of the background music, no cuts, and original dialouge. I even have the French Dub of My Sweet Heart, they're 2nd season opening, on my Dailymotion account. I just thought that it was worth mentioning. --Hika Yagami 02:19, 31 March 2007

Italian version once again

OK, I found a very good Italian site about Tokyo Mew Mew, with all the weapons and attacks of the Mew Mew's, and more.

The site is here: http://www.mewsisters.org/tokyomewmew/personaggi/attacchi.htm .

So, first let's make a correction to the above:

Mint/Mew Mint (Mina/Mew Mina in the Italian version)

Original weapon: Mint Arrow.

Italian weapon: Cuore di Mina (Mina's heart).

Then, let's add this one:

Ichigo/Mew Ichigo (Strawberry/Mew Berry in the Italian version), with the Mew Aqua Rod:

Original weapon: Mew Aqua Rod.

Italian weapon: Not named.

Supposed original activation: O Virga Mew Aquæ, luce (O Purity of Mew Aqua, shine, or O Mew Aqua Rod, shine).

Note: I'm watching episode 26 right now, for this exact purpose, and the #honobono subs say: O Virga Mew Aquæ, luce (O Purity of Mew Aqua, shine), even though Ichico does shout the above-mentioned English phrase, thus the original activation is in English, and as thus, it's listed below.

Original activation: Mew Aqua Rod, Shining.

Italian activation: "Acqua Cristallo, Risplendi (Water Crystal, Shine)." in episode 26, and "Cuore del Cristallo, Risplendi (Heart of the Crystal, Shine)." in episode 43.

Supposed original attack: Reborn Aquæ Guttæ. And yes, it's guttæ, not vitæ, also since guttæ is plural for gutta, which is Latin for drop.

Note: Once again, #honobono's unnecessarily sub latinization. Yes, the subs use the above mentioned-phrase, but I can clearly hear Ichigo screaming: Reborn Aqua Drops! Thus, the original activation is in English, and as thus, it's listed below.

Original attack: Reborn Aqua Drops!

Italian attack: Fiocco di goccie (Ribbon of the drops)!

So, that would be it for now. ;) - OBrasilo 14:50, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Ugh, bad subbing! That statement "#honobono's unnecessary sub Latinization" should be emphasized... --Addict 2006 01:30, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Mew Aqua

Mew aqua this, Mew Aqua that... I can't find a place where it says WHAT that is... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lego3400 (talk • contribs) 03:27, 10 April 2007 (UTC).

Ehh. I doubt even the characters know, or if it's even noteworthy of its own article... --Addict 2006 01:31, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

TEMPLATE

there NEEDS to be a template including the internation version, the spinoffs and episodes. the section are too small. THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED! 20:24, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I'll try to make one... 夢の騎士^{Yume no Kishi - Talk} 23:40, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I've made one. ^_^ 夢の騎士^{Yume no Kishi - Talk} 00:33, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Please also have a look at my proposed template and comment on it. (Template_talk:Tokyo_Mew_Mew). - G.A.S 15:06, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

A lot of relevant items does not seem to be linked (other than through the navigation template) - for instance International adaptations of Tokyo Mew Mew. This makes the category fragmented, esp if you searched for Mew Mew Power, and get redirected to Tokyo Mew Mew. Other than the template, there is no link to the dubbed version. (And the template is at the very bottom.) - G.A.S 15:14, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Article layout

I think it may make sense to move the following sections to separate articles, since they are more to do with a single topic, than the original manga/anime itself: #2 (Characters - nice overview) and #3 (Similarity between characters' kanji and name origin) as characters in tokyo mew mew; and #5 (Alterations in Tokyopop's manga translation)
Sincerely, G.A.S 15:14, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

It's a good idea to move the list of TMM characters. As for the other two sections, I'm not sure... Alterations can be a part of International Adaptations article; moving it to a separate page is pointless - it'll get deleted for the lack of sources. Kanji... don't know... maybe merge it with the list of characters?.. Hmmm... 夢の騎士^{Yume no Kishi - Talk} 15:31, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Exactly what I thought. Although I think the main characters should still be linked from the article page. Refer to the Scooby-Doo (Featured article) info box for how I think it can be done. - G.A.S 17:45, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

The "Alterations in TokyoPop's manga translation" needs serious reworking and pruning. Sns for the "kanji and name origin" section, that's fairly trivial, and can probably be reduced or removed. The character list would be fine as a seperate page.

Layout

i agree the layout should be changed, the unreferenced bit at the bottom should not be there though...if you are making an italian version, have it as a hyperlink, as it is a minority, on the actual page. clcheung 09:30, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

OK, lemme see...

The alterations can only be moved to the adaptations article; there's no way it can be on a separate page. Technically, the whole characters section can be cut out and put on a separate page, and I won't even have to change the template, because it can be linked through the "Characters" title.

But, if all this stuff is removed, there will be no useful info in the main article, for there's actually very little info related to the show itself: only the first paragraph and the "Story" section. If there'll be more info, then all other things can go to separate pages.

In short, I think it's too early to move things; the main article will need more improvement before it can be split.

EDIT: I figured out how to link the dubbed version from the top of the main article...

夢の騎士^{Yume no Kishi - Talk} 16:28, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I think the change works. I will think about the layout of the article - maybe I can come up with an idea.

Some ideas though: Move/copy some non-spoiler information from the characters' articles to the main article - so they are about two paragraphs each, add a picture and "main article", and give each an own heading (as is done with TGV#Rolling_stock).

Example:

== Characters ==

{{main|Characters in Tokyo Mew Mew}}

Some general information here.

=== Protagonists ===
==== Ichigo Momomiya ====
{{main|Ichigo Momomiya}}
[[Image:MomomiyaIchigoTMM.jpg|right|thumb|Ichigo Momomiya (Zoey Hanson and Strawberry Momomiya)]]
{{nihongo|Ichigo Momomiya|桃宮　いちご|Momomiya Ichigo}} is the first member ...     

Some general information here.

==== Mint Aizawa ====
{{main|Mint Aizawa}}
[[Image:MintoAizawa.jpg|right|thumb|Mint Aizawa (Corina Bucksworth/Mina Aizawa)]]
{{nihongo|Mint Aizawa|藍沢　みんと|Aizawa Minto}} is the second...
Some general information here.

...

=== Antagonists ===

...

=== Other ===

{{seealso|List of minor characters in Tokyo Mew Mew}}

...

I think that the above will give the article some body.

Another idea is a "see also" section (in addition to the template - as is done with Earth#See_also and to add a short paragraph about other related articles and "main article" where possible. (This way the main article gives a nice overall picture, and sub-articles are available for further reading)

What do you think?

If everybody is OK with suggested changes, I will attempt it over the weekend.

G.A.S 20:39, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

This seems to be a good idea, but I think there can be some problems, too...

Look at the Magic Knight Rayearth article. It has some plot description, then there's a link to the character list, then the info on the manga (BTW, totally absent in the TMM article) and the anime.

Now look at the Sailor Moon article. It does list the main characters, but obviously provides much info on all "incarnations" of the story, and the English adaptations are also described, even though they have their own article.

I think we should first add some info on the show in general, and then see if the characters section needs expansion. There's much info on the characters in their own articles, but the main article obviously lacks info on the show itself. Especially the details about the anime (staff) and the manga (anything).

For the "see also" thing... I don't know... maybe it will work, but currently there aren't many non-character TMM articles, so I don't know if they deserve a separate section...

夢の騎士^{Yume no Kishi - Talk}

I agree - I did not mean adding too much information about the characters to the article. Maybe two paragraphs - so the sub-section is the same size as the thumbnail of the character. Also, maybe just leave the Tokyo Mew Mews on the main since they are what the anime is named after, and move all the other characters to a separate page (But should the 5 then be duplicated there? (?)) and do away with the minor character list (or rename it and use it as the base of the characters page).

I think a "see also" section has value if there are pages not otherwise linked to a topic's main page.

I also think that the plot section might be expanded more of the main threads of the plot (but how can this be done without giving too much spoilers?) (And then rename story to plot?)

The same can be added/created for the manga (unfortunately I do not know anything about it, though). If the anime and manga have the same plot, a separate section for the manga will be unnecessary. (If they differ, one can also add a section with a summary of the differences.)

I'll do research about items required for shows (I find featured articles are a good place to do research, since they already went through all of this.)

(This is getting very complicated)

Regards

G.A.S 06:26, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't have the manga, but from what I know, the plot in general is the same, but there are many things that were changed in the anime.

But actually, not just the plot section can be expanded this way. Look at this section of the Sailor Moon article: it barely mentions the plot, and instead is focused on the history of the manga/anime/live-action series/etc. themselves. In the Tokyo Mew Mew article such description is placed at the beginning of the article. The Sailor Moon article starts with a brief spoiler-less description of the story. I think something like this can be done with TMM article: i.e. we can write some 1-2-paragraph intro ("What was this all about?"), and move the section from the top of the article to some other section, then add more detailed info on the manga/anime (not a plot summary, but something about how they were created and other stuff).

I'll think more about this. Or better yet, I'll go to my personal sandbox and try to write something useful for the article.

夢の騎士^{Yume no Kishi - Talk} 11:35, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

On the same article (Sailormoon) is what I had in mind for the content of the characters' section.

If only I knew more about it... a history section will make very nice reading.

The following could use more information regarding adaptations:
TMM Anime / TMM Manga / TMM Manga (Tokyopop)/ MMP / MM:AV.

Can one make a section from the style of the animation? What makes this anime's animation unique? Related question: "The animation/artwork underwent several changes around the later episodes of season 2 ..." - I cannot figure out what these changes are.

It seems that in the SM article the plot is each time in the specific adaptation's article. In TMM this will not make sense since there is only the anime and manga, and I doubt that each one can be expanded into an article. Thus: an additional plot section will make sense (not in the opening section - further down as you said).

A reception section might also make sense.

Regards

G.A.S 15:26, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Ichigo's age change

Chane anyone go to the 4kids site and see if it says her age? I've tried before, but it doesnt laod properly. Its been annoying me for a while now since it needs a citation. And, what is the offical site of Tokyo Mew Mew? THROUGH FIRE, JUSTICE IS SERVED! 19:32, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

I will look into it (within 24 hours). - Regards, G.A.S 23:24, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

The site does not work correctly in Firefox 2.0.0.3 or Internet Explorer, getting a "loading" screen at the last step.

MMPU and Absoluteanime list it as 16. (Please do not mention it in the main article, rather in Ichigo_Momomiya. I will reference it.)

Regards, G.A.S 17:40, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

RE [3], [4], [5]

The worst is I think there might have been truth in the edits, but since 4kids site does not work, there is no way to know!

I also suspect 4kids had different birthdays for the characters (same problem). The last time I had a look at their sites was 2005 or early 2006 and I really cannot remember.

G.A.S 19:59, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

After reading the discussion on Ichigo's talk page, I believe this information might be on the DVD's. G.A.S 20:18, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Automated peer review.

The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be 100% applicable.

• Y If there is not a free use image in the top right corner of the article, please try to find and include one.^[?]
• Per Wikipedia:What is a featured article?, Images should have concise captions.^[?]
• Y Per Wikipedia:Context and Wikipedia:Build the web, years with full dates should be linked; for example, link January 15, 2006.^[?]
• Y As per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates), dates shouldn't use ^th; for example, instead of using January 30^th was a great day, use January 30 was a great day.^[?] — Only used in comment
• Y Per WP:WIAFA, this article's table of contents (ToC) may be too long- consider shrinking it down by merging short sections or using a proper system of daughter pages as per Wikipedia:Summary style.^[?]
• Y Watch for redundancies that make the article too wordy instead of being crisp and concise. (You may wish to try Tony1's redundancy exercises.)
  • Vague terms of size often are unnecessary and redundant - “some”, “a variety/number/majority of”, “several”, “a few”, “many”, “any”, and “all”. For example, “All pigs are pink, so we thought of a number of ways to turn them green.”
• Y The script has spotted the following contractions: don't, doesn't, doesn't, doesn't, doesn't, don't, won't, won't, if these are outside of quotations, they should be expanded.
• Y As done in WP:FOOTNOTE, footnotes usually are located right after a punctuation mark (as recommended by the CMS, but not mandatory), such that there is no space in between. For example, the sun is larger than the moon [2]. is usually written as the sun is larger than the moon.[2]^[?]
• Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.^[?]

See User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. G.A.S 11:48, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Manual items found

• The lead needs work
• The plot needs work - it is currently too in-universe.
  • Plot : "This should comprise a succinct description of the plot and major subplots"
    • Succinct description of the plot - To be added (Currently provided in-universe; most likely only minor fixes will be required.)
    • Major subplots - To be added.
• Characters: Subheaders (Mew Mews/Friends/...) I do not believe this is necessary, it can easily be provided in the list itself per character (and to some degree, already is given).
• Some sources are still required. (I will add tags, and more when I copy edit)

I will add more items when I pick them up, and update the section above.

Regards, G.A.S 17:47, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I cannot do summeries. I am no good at leads and plot summeries. I added the "manga summeries" to the Mews ages ago, but its more like giving the whole plot away. THROUGH FIRE JUSTICE IS SERVED! 18:07, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

For your evil actions, I will make you pay!

Can anybody tell me how to say the phrase in japanese? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ailes Grises (talk • contribs) 21:31, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

It's "Chikyū no mirai ni gohōshi-suru nyan!". You could have looked on Ichigo's information page to find that, you know. And, this type of question is better asked on a forum- Wiki talk pages are generally for talking about the articles. 69.111.188.208 13:14, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Hey

Whatever happened to the profiles we had on this page for Ringo, Gatou, and the other PS game characters?

69.111.17.70 01:26, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Did you actually look at the history page? THROUGH FIRE JUSTICE IS SERVED! 01:31, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

How very rude.

To answer your question, I've been looking at the history page for a while. I saw the profiles in question get removed, and what I meant to ask was if they were moved to another page which has somehow managed to evade my notice all this time, or if they have simply dissapeared.

69.106.4.83 13:34, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

mints name translation

it says mints name is trancelated 2 the flower called "mint" but isn't she named after the mint that's in ice cream and breath mints which would explain why her suite is aqua or light blue which is the color or breath mints or mint flavored ice cream —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.101.212.39 (talk) 22:31, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

The colour of her outfit most likely takes after the light blue used in a lot of mint flavored sweets (and toothpaste). That section should probably be rewritten at some point to reflect this. 69.107.250.187 20:33, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

exactly! thank you for agreeing —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.101.212.39 (talk) 13:50, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Random comments for article improvement.

I have been going through old discussions I had re these articles, and can mention the following: — G.A.S 05:59, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Milestones

These are links for the articles before some major modifications, in case old content is required. This is mainly to know where we came from. — G.A.S 05:59, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

• Final revision before second major reconstruction. Good layout, but very little content.
• Final revision before first major reconstruction. A lot of long lists, and way to much focus on the ribōn and other translation issues.

Known references

This is a list of applicable websites. Some of them might have useful information. The mentioned foreign Wikipedias are worth looking at. — G.A.S 05:59, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Anime News Network

News and and basic info

French Wikipedia

Plot history, Information on characters (some not in English version yet) - good due to use of paragraphs -, Anime vs Manga

Japanese Wikipedia

Character profiles, ages, birthdays, ISBN's of books, list of CD's, DVD's, links. Difference between Anime and Manga?

IMDB

Plot summary, cast and crew, trivia (limited)

cafe mew mew

lists when the english and japanese volumes came out

Removed all copyvio links. As most, if not all are fan sites, they are completely useless for sourcing as they do not meet WP:RS, especially other Wikipedias.

Merge Tokyo Mew Mew (manga) into this article

It has been suggested by AnmaFinotera that the above mentioned article be merged back into this article (suggesting merge back to main article; no reason to have separate — AnmaFinotera[6]).

• Merge. G.A.S 05:39, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

This merge has been done. Additionally, Tokyo Mew Mew a la Mode has been merged in and many necessary MOS fixes started. Much more clean up and work needs to be done, however. AnmaFinotera (talk) 18:18, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Character Articles

I'd like to propose that all of the character articles in Category:Tokyo Mew Mew characters be merged into a single List of Tokyo Mew Mew characters, with minor characters and species articles deleted all together. None of these articles meet the necessary notability requirements for existence. As such, they should be shortened up to not be pure plot regurgitation and merged into a single, well-written, well-sourced list. For List of minor characters in Tokyo Mew Mew, I've sent it to AfD. We do not need a list of characters who only appear in a single episode. They are not notable for mention beyond the episode summaries.AnmaFinotera (talk) 18:49, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

The injunction is over, so shall we get this discussion going? AnmaFinotera (talk) 01:25, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Chimera Anima vs Kirema Anima

The Tokyopop manga for the main series uses Kirema Anima, however some say a La Mode uses Chimera Anima (can't confirm myself) so I'm trying to figure out which one we should use. The Chimera Anima article is pretty useless as it is mostly OR and gives no evidence to support the claim that Chimera Anima is correct. To me, I'm thinking Kimera Anima is the one to use, as that is the actual romanization of キメラアニマ. Thoughts here? AnmaFinotera (talk) 22:50, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

According to the Manual of Style for Japan-related articles "An English loan word or place name of Japanese origin should be used in its most common English form in the body of an article, even if it is pronounced or spelled differently from the properly romanized Japanese". I can see no evidence that Kimera is not a loan word and I can see the logic of using Chimera (mythology)/Chimera (genetics) as well. I had a look at Google's language tools, and it translates "キメラ" as "Chimera" and "アニマ" as "Anima". Furthermore, searching "キメラ" on the Japanese Wikipedia provides the Chimera (genetics) article. Thus I believe that Chimera is correct. G.A.S 06:22, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, after I posted that, while looking at various Japanese sites for sources, I saw Babelfish translates it to Chimera Anima as well. Total side question, but do you find Google's language tools to be any better than Babelfish? AnmaFinotera (talk) 06:50, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

In fact, I have never used Babelfish before, and will need to test it (I prefer to use multiple tools when available). URL please? G.A.S 08:09, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Here ya go [7] AtaruMoroboshi (talk) 12:50, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

I tend to use http://tool.nifty.com/globalgate which uses the same engine as http://www.excite.co.jp/world/english/ and it is better than babelfish IMO, not sure about Google (I think the last time I tested it gave the same results as babelfish anyway). Shiroi Hane (talk) 14:56, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

It seems to me that Google language tools is a bit off at the moment, and agree with Shiroi Hane; I believe they used the same engine last time, as Babelfish's translation of the Japanese article seem familiar to me. G.A.S 15:27, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Ah. Thanks for checking :) I'm always hoping for something slightly better, since half the time the stuff that comes out makes about as much sense as nothing LOL. While I have picked up a few Japanese words that I understand if I hear, my reading ability is next to zero, and likely to stay that way. Way too many kanji! Meanwhile, I'm going to try to get the new episode list during the week, using your sandbox as a starting point. AnmaFinotera (talk) 15:37, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Episode List

The episode lists need some cleaning up. Because of the heavy editing done to Mew Mew Power, I'd like to suggest we have to separate lists. List of Tokyo Mew Mew episodes for the 52 episode lists with summaries (can be broken up into sub lists, if needed, after its done), and List of Mew Mew Power episodes for the 26 edited 4Kids episodes. This was also done with Cardcaptor Sakura/Cardcaptors, as trying to include all of the changes to each episode in the main episode list makes the whole thing messy. Thoughts? AnmaFinotera (talk) 18:52, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

That sounds like a good plan. —Quasirandom (talk) 23:51, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

A (long) while back I was in fact busy cleaning up the episode lists (The rewrite being here). I am aware that it is in another users' userpage, but I have been the only contributor, save a few comments. I have also tried to keep the list well sourced. This page should be used as a start for the Japanese list. Have a look at the talk page as well as there were extra work done that is not yet taken into account in the draft.

I am not sure about having a separate list for the English version though, as this usually leads to a lot of anti-4kids content (and Undue weight as well), while the lists are not all that different. This could be adequately covered in the main article.

Comments will be appreciated.

Regards, G.A.S 09:30, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

If the English list is kept to the usual episode list format, that should discourage most of it. If not, anyone who feels they must do an NPOV push can be smacked. Its really no different from all the policing that has to be done with the main :) The main thing is, having been unable to watch Mew Mew Power myself, beyond the name changes, did they make significant enough changes to the episodes that the summaries of the episodes would be significantly different? I took a look at the item in the sandbox, but its way too long. The episodes should be one list, list of chapters another. The rest doesn't need a list, only a summary in the main. The summaries also seem very short, though that's probably because longer summaries became more accepted and preferred after the work stopped. :) Of course, the ones in the current lists are a little too long, so we will need to do some copy editing.

We also have a graphic novel template now, which I'll use to clean up the manga list, probably sometime today. AnmaFinotera (talk) 09:58, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

There are a episode comparison between the English and the original at http://mmpu.smuncensored.com/series.html, which is fairly accurate. The main points in the episodes are the same though, except for the English premiere episode.

The sandbox article can be split as needed, but I feel that it should be used as a starting point at least. The chapter list was just a thought, and can be left out. I do not think it is that important now - originally the manga was published in this format, though, so it can be mentioned.

Regards, G.A.S 10:46, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

(Edit) I had no info for the chapter list, as such could not prepare anything for it myself.

Re length: The old lists tend to focus on unimportant items in a lot of cases (undue weight), which is why opted to rewrite it instead. Given that there are 52 episodes, at 55 words each, the length of the article is 2860 words, excluding headers, lead, titles, etc. Clearly the episode summaries should not be much longer? The list should not be split, either as any split is arbitrary.

Regards, G.A.S 11:09, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

The article length should not be used as a reason not to do proper episode summaries. The list could never be an FL if it does not have proper episode summaries. As TMM doesn't have any seasons (that I know of), then it may just have to be a longer list, which is also fine. If the main points are the same, then yes, we can just leave it as one list. I wasn't sure if it was like with CCS where they just hacked and smashed episodes all over the place. :P The chapter list will be in a separate list, List of Tokyo Mew Mew chapters, and include both the main and a La Mode series. They are important, and should not be left out. The sandbox has a few summaries to help start and my library has the main series, so I can get those and do summaries and the chapter lists. We'll need to find someone with a la Mode to do those (though if I like the manga I'll just buy those two).

In the end, the goal is to have four Tokyo Mew Mew articles (pending the character discussion above): Tokyo Mew Mew, List of Tokyo Mew Mew episodes, List of Tokyo Mew Mew chapters, and List of Tokyo Mew Mew characters, with the first a GA or FA and the last all FLs! (I like big hairy audacious goals *grin*).AnmaFinotera (talk) 18:43, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Good luck! I recommend starting with the episode list, using the draft version as the base. (Sections 1, 1.1). The outline is considered complete and sourced. Episode lists seem traditionally easier to get up to FL standard:) Regards, G.A.S 19:10, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Yep, and your sandbox version does save a lot of work as it already uses the Japanese episode list format :) AnmaFinotera (talk) 19:18, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

If you need help with the episode summaries, drop me a note (on this page). I can't make promises, as I am quite busy, but I can try to write one episode summary per day. (Let me know what the required length is, first.) G.A.S 19:39, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

That would be great! I've only seen part of the series myself, and have a few other lists I'm working on. For length, List of Trinity Blood episodes is a recent featured episode list I did that has summaries of a good length. The main thing is to cover the major plot points, including beginning and end. Meanwhile, I was able to get volumes 1-6 of the manga from the library (7 was checked out), so I'll work on that chapter list today. AnmaFinotera (talk) 21:29, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Update: The episode list is done and at List of Tokyo Mew Mew episodes. I moved over the summaries from G.A.S.' sandbox list, as of the two options they were the better ones. I've left a note on the talk page of the list with links to the old ones and a call for episode summaries. Once those are added and a copyedit done, it should be about ready for FLC. AnmaFinotera (talk) 19:51, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Please refer to comments on List of Tokyo Mew Mew episodes's talk page. Regards, G.A.S 06:46, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Chapter List

The chapter list is up and at List of Tokyo Mew Mew chapters. All that is left that I can see is finishing the chapter lists, and adding summaries. I think I've sourced everything already in there. Thoughts/feedback? AnmaFinotera (talk) 23:26, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

In principle, I believe it is good, it require some cleanup though (eg. spelling, grammar, punctuation). I can only take a detailed look later, though. I have noticed that the Japanese text and Romaji is not provided, is it possible to do so? How about some info about the format? G.A.S 05:57, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

I'll see if I can find a list of the Japanese chapters, but might have to go without for now. Its one of the biggest challenges we usually have with chapter lists :( In this case, though, I have found some of the Japanese volumes, and its looking like the chapter names may be a pure TP thing. Gonna check a few more volumes first. Info on the format? Can you give me an example of what you mean? AnmaFinotera (talk) 06:12, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Format: black and white or color? Reading order of panes? etc. G.A.S 07:52, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Ah. No, that usually isn't included unless its unusual. Both the Japanese and TP releases are done in standard formats. AnmaFinotera (talk) 14:48, 10 March 2008 (UTC)