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The aesthetic judgements are not WP:NPOV. I am removing them. Vagary 02:14, 13 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

TCA

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We must be careful that this section does not become WP:SPAM. I am removing the mission statement, as it's the same mission statement that every trade association has. Vagary 02:14, 13 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Facts

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I would like to WP:VERIFY the numerical claims in this article, I have added Template:Fact tags appropriately. Vagary 02:14, 13 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Some thoughts

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I've been directed here from WP:ARCHA. There's absolutely nothing official about the assessment, but I'll give some opinions - to be treated with spoonfuls of salt as you see fit:-

  1. Interesting article about something, the title of which I'd never heard before (I'm writing from a UK perspective). In the UK similar construction with the panels manufactured off-site is called 'prefabrication' or 'prefab' although this umbrella term clearly shelters other types of construction.
  2. Prefab in general, has a controversial history in the UK, widely used after the war to provide quick housing for a war-ravaged nation, there are still some houses in existance from this period - they often get additional skins of brickwork to beautify them. The collapsse of Ronan point was a defining point in modern UK construction history - I assume an LPS system (see article) is a type of 'tilt up'. The national building regulations were amended as a result to ensure consideration of disproportionate collapse. That event and other less dramatic exposés of poor workmanship (spalling concrete due to insufficient reinforcement depth etc.) in deck-access and tower-blocks, combined with a re-evaluation of how 'streets in the sky' and other progressive reforms had effected communities resulted in a change of direction in the provision of low-cost social housing. None of this might be relevant if tilt-up is specifically a term for when panels are manufactured on-site.
  3. Perhaps a section discussing the pros and cons of on-site or off-site manufacture - panel size, site control, the ability to incorporate insulation in factory conditions etc.
  4. Actually a general pro's and con's section with other types of construction would be beneficial. Critical paths, cost, site control, etc. etc.
  5. Presumably the principle is also applicable to timber frame builds as well - or is 'tilt-up' just used for concrete panels?
  6. "There is some evidence that tilt up was one of the concrete construction methods used in Ancient Rome" as a statement likely to be challenged - and quite surprising, can we get a ref for this? and a specific example in the article is justified I think.
  7. Is there a better image of the Schindler house?
  8. I'm a bit twitchy about the article promoting a trade association in the body text - I'd have a read of WP:CORP and make sure it complies.
  9. Perhaps a See also section?

Kind regards --Antischmitz 13:27, 17 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you kindly for the feedback! I've done some edits that partially address some of your points:
  1. Turns out tilt up isn't used much in the UK. J Glass wrote a whole PhD thesis about why, but I'm not sure how notable it is.
  2. The article needs details of building codes and guidelines.
  3. I added some bits in the construction details about this, but there's a lot more to say.
  4. Good idea. Prefabrication has explicit advantages and disadvantages sections, but more details on project management should be in both articles.
  5. Just concrete. Framing (construction) needs more details about prefab to make a good comparison...
  6. On another look at the sources, the Ancient Rome thing is probably just industry hyperbole. Still, it's an interesting enough claim that I think it should stay in the article in an appropriately sceptical context.
  7. Some better ones have been uploaded recently, although going through Google Images I can see non-fair use images that would be even better for this article. :(
  8. The trade association is the major source of information about tilt up and their evangelism is notable. However, there should be as little promotion as possible...
Vagary 23:17, 17 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

More Feedback

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I posted six of the photos in the gallery, (I'll post one of the finished building shortly, it is a Tyre Center) and I'll give you my perspective on tilt up as a builder.

  • I am currently living in a tilt slab house.
  • Built in the years just after cyclone Tracy devastated Darwin in 1974.
  • Quite a few hundreds of these houses were built very quickly. Like in 18 months by one company.
  • The panels were produced at a central factory and delivered to site by truck.
  • This method while excellent for it's time, is not used for house construction today, the equivalent building method now is reinforced 200 series concrete blockwork. Compare this to the 110 wall thickness of tilt slabs.
  • Tilt up is still used for particular jobs, that is commercial work that is on very tight sites, and speed is important.
  • I have a mate who built quite a few small tilt up warehouses a few years ago, but at the end of the day the cost difference between tilt slab and concrete blockwork was marginal.
  • There were a few (as we used to say) pre-cast panel houses built prior to cyclone Tracy, and many of those failed disastrously because of poor connection of the panels. When the roofs started lifting the panels literally fell down.

billbeee 22:36, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your contributions so far! Those are all really interesting details - why don't you add them to the article? It'd be great if you had references, but those seem to be pretty hard to find for this topic. :( Vagary 05:58, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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