Talk:Tigrinya people

Issues with this article

The ‘origins’ section is a mixture of speculation and generality that does not have anything to do with the topic. The ‘settlements and kingdoms’ section makes no claim that any of these states were Tigrigni. They belong in articles about the archaeology and history of Eritrea, not here. Mccapra (talk) 04:42, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Copyeditor passing by

I'm removing this little parenthetical blurb as it is making the lede look too messy:

[(Tigrina (‘tigrĩna’) (pl.) (“ትግሪና”) (ብዙ); Tigrinu (‘tigrĩnu’) (sing., masc.) (“ትግሪኑ”) (ንጽል፣ ተባዕ); Tigrini (‘tigrĩnĩ’) (sing., fem.) (“ትግሪኒ”) (ንጽል፣ ኣንስ)]

I also removed an entire paragraph from the "Origin" section as it had nothing to do with the Tigrigni. Ona also links to Sembel. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 01:47, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Tigrayans and Tigrinya/Tigrigni

See this section for a discussion that concerns this page. Prinsgezinde (talk) 14:15, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

page should be deleted, as done earlier on. This is totally POV without any scientific evidence. There is a page about Tigrinya. All fits there.Rastakwere (talk) 14:17, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

The Tigrinya people and the people of Tigray are separate when they are one ethnic group, so this publication or article must be erased. Midre bahri (talk) 10:44, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

Image

Hi, anybody hanging around being able to advise if this image would be suitable to ad to the article? Thank you for your time. Lotje (talk) 17:17, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

Tigrayans and Tigrinya people are one ethnicity!

The people of Tigrinya are the same ethnic as the people of Tigray; there is no difference. But the people of Tigre who they live in northern west Eritrea are not one ethnic with Tigray and Tigrinya people, but the people are similar languages. Now I want to say that this article should be erased because Tigrinya people is one ethnic group with the people of Tigray. Midre bahri (talk) 10:37, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

Related groups

Nara and Kunama ethnic groups are Nilo Saharan groups unrelated to the Biher Tigrinya. They do not even live in close proximity nor do they share kinship. EXTASM (talk) 13:45, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Although it is true they are different ethnic groups belonging to different ethno linguistic groups they have lived in the same area for over 3000 years side by side in very close promixity. Nowhere does it say that they are the same ethnic groups. To say that all groups are homogenous is not also accurate, many of ethnic groups have lived side by side so their impact on each other can’t be overlooked, for instance Kunama language also exist in a Tigrinya dialect, both groups lived in the same kingdoms for centuries and today they even share nationality for obvious reasons. Both of the groups you mention have substantial gene flow into their gene pool from Ethiosemitic speakers. However this is not a matter of genetics but mainly also about other aspects like culture, history and nationality. However don’t see why there should exist a related ethnic group category since this might be confusing and imply different things. Leechjoel9 (talk) 15:44, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Kebessa

Kebessa has a strict definition, it is reserved for the Christian Tigrinya speaking highlanders of Eritrea. Tigrinya speaking Muslims are NOT Kebessa, they are called Jeberti (which there is already an entry) and are of migrant Tigray origin. Also, Jehovas Witness is not a recognized religion of the Kebessa. It’s no than adding atheism and other random identifications. EXTASM (talk) 01:45, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

I must reiterate that the Kebessa/Biher-Tigrinya identity specifically refers to the Christian highlander Tigrinya population of Eritrea. It does not include Muslims (see Jeberti) who have a different origin and are a sub group of Tigrayans. EXTASM (talk) 16:57, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Jeberti are muslim tigrinyas and are included in the populations of the tigrinyas Barbardo (talk) 18:08, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

They are counted as “Tigrinya” per government census, but they are not considered Tigrinya per the Tigrinya community. They descend from recent Tigrayan immigrants to Eritrea. You cannot have Jeberti belong to three different ethnic wiki entries. It’s illogical. They are Muslim Tigrayans who inhabit Eritrea and their actual home (in Tigray). You’re not Eritrean and you haven’t done your research. EXTASM (talk) 13:06, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

“The Muslim Djebertis originated in the Tigray region of

Ethiopia although they have resided in Eritrea for centuries. They consider themselves to be a separate ethnic group from the Tigrinya; however, as their ethnic language is Tigrinya, the GSE denied their request to be recognized as an official ethnic group. The Akeleguzay, Seraye, Hamasien, and Djeberti are considered the four sub-groups of the Tigrinya and some older Eritreans maintain these social distinctions quite strongly, objecting to marriages across the sub-groups. Many Christian Tigrinyans consider the Muslim Djeberti to be of a lower status.” EXTASM (talk) 13:17, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

The source clearly mentions some tigrinyans as being muslim it doesn't say only the jeberti are. Barbardo (talk) 14:03, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

Kebessa is not linked to religion Barbardo (talk) 18:07, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Kebessa are an ethno-linguistic group bound by a collection of communal villages who share the same customs, faith and traditions. Jeberti are Muslim Tigrayan immigrants who inhabit towns and work in trades. They do not own land and therefore not part of the Tigrinya kinship structure. They are only “Tigrinya” in the legal sense as the Eritrean government uses linguistic groups in their statistics and disregards clans and kinships. Jeberti are Tigrayans, not Tigrinya! EXTASM (talk) 13:11, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

None of this is sourced but original research Barbardo (talk) 14:02, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

Several sources confirm this....

The Historical Dictionary of Eritrea- Dan Connell, page 327, 243

Blood, Land and Sex- Roy Pateman, page 20

Borders & Borderlands- Dereje Feyissa, page 65

They are not Tigrinya and do not identify as as Tigrinya, on their own account as well as by the Kebessa people. They are descendants of Muslim Tigrayan immigrants and they call themselves Jeberti. You can have one group counted on three separate wiki pages. By that logic, Jebertis are Tigrinya, Tigrayans and their own Jeberti group. It doesn't make any sense! The Kebessa people are an exclusive ethno-religious group with their own social structure and bound by the Orthodox faith. EXTASM (talk) 16:05, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

But thats about the jeberti nit about the tigrinya that became muslim Barbardo (talk) 18:56, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

No, it specifically states they are a separate group and have different origins (Tigray). You will not find a source that describes them as Kebessa, because that is strictly reserved for the Christian Highlander population who speak Tigrinya. How can the Jeberti belong to Tigrinya wiki, Tigray wiki and have their own wiki page, all at the same time? You intentionally added them to this page without any credible source. By your logic immigrants who come to Eritrea and adopt Tigrinya language are "Tigrinya", which is categorically false. EXTASM (talk) 02:32, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

The source doesn't say all tigrinyas are christian or need to be christian to be kebessa and the source given also doesn't say all tigrinya muslims are jeberti. Barbardo (talk) 08:30, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

You’re deliberately being obtuse. They are not Tigrinya! That’s the whole point of the “Tigrinya People” entry, it was wrongly merged the “Tigrayans”. This is not about linguistics, ethnicity is more than just language. It is heritage, culture and social structure. You have not refuted any of my points. The Jeberti cannot be countered on three different Wikipedia pages. That’s akin to adding Anglo Americans under British, Australian as well as American wiki pages! EXTASM (talk) 13:37, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Look at the source given first they label muslim tigrinyas as jeberti and it doesn't say the tigrayans are included in the religion section. Barbardo (talk) 13:47, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

You're not understanding the sources.... find a source where Kebessa are referred to as Muslims? It is a specific term for Tigrinya Christian Highlanders. The Muslim Tigrinya speakers are called "Jeberti" and are immigrants, not native to Eritrea. There no other "Muslim Tigrinya" speakers. You are either Kebessa or Jeberti (Tigrayan migrants). EXTASM (talk) 00:59, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

I am asking for sourced proof your words means nothing on thete own and Kebessa isnt linked to religion. Barbardo (talk) 03:33, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Every source refers to them as Christian.. they are an ethnoreligous group.

Here is a source:

”Those known as Highlanders (Kebessa) are Christian, sedentary peasants who are socially organized on territorial lines.”

Page 182. “The Rising Tide of Cultural Pluralism” - Edited by Crawford Young, 1993.

Muslims who speak Tigrinya are called Jeberti (see Wikipedia entry) they are of immigrant origin and inhabit towns. EXTASM (talk) 01:56, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Kebessa are Christians as it is traditionally defined, there is no other definition. Kebessa can also refer to a region, this is like Jews and Judea. Moving to a historical part of Israel (Judea) as an immigrant does not make one a Judean. EXTASM (talk) 02:00, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

The jeberti wikipage is about somalis rather then the muslim tigrinyas Barbardo (talk) 06:12, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

No; it doesn’t. It refers to a clan called Jeberti who inhabit Eritrea, Ethiopia and Somalia. You are exposing your ignorance. You know nothing about this region. I will report to the main moderator. Good day. EXTASM (talk) 14:56, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Kebessa refers to the majority of the population it doesn't say they can't be muslim. Barbardo (talk) 06:14, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Ridiculous, you just made that up! I’m Eritrean, you are not! Read the source and stop injecting your personal feelings. I will report you to the moderator.

Those known as Highlanders (Kebessa) are Christian, sedentary peasants who are socially organized on territorial lines.”

Page 182. “The Rising Tide of Cultural Pluralism” - Edited by Crawford Young, 1993. EXTASM (talk) 14:54, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Report me then because the source I gave says jeberti while the wikipedia paga is liked to the somalis while highlander tigrinyas are known as kebessa accotding to your own source. If you revert again without a consensus then you will be reported. Barbardo (talk) 23:29, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

English is your not your first language, clearly.

This is what it says:

"The Somali Jebertis clan family speak Somali and Arabic. In Eritrea and Ethiopia they mainly speak Tigrinya and Arabic."

Obviously the Jeberti in Somalia speak Somali, while those Jeberti in Eritrea and Ethiopia speak Tigrinya. They are all related, whether they are a Jeberti in Eritrea, Somalia or Ethiopia.

Jeberti and Kebessa are two separate peoples. You can edit as much as you want, you don't have any sources to back your claim. You will not find one source where Kebessa are referred to as Muslims, but I've shared dozens of sources that only document them as Christian. I'll be taking my grievances to the main History mod and report you for intellectual dishonesty. EXTASM (talk) 01:25, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Then prove you clains about the jeberti give a source the onr given before says they are muslim tigrinya and when you do have proof add both references later when you revert if not then your word means nothing you only shared one source not dozen and thats only for the kebessa part. Barbardo (talk) 05:52, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

Lock Info ethnic box

Individuals are constantly editing this page to include Tigrayans and Muslim Tigrayans (Jeberti). Again, they are NOT Kebessa and they have their own wiki entries. Stop adding them to this page! EXTASM (talk) 09:27, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Tigrinya people

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Tigrinya people's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Munro-Hay57":

• From Kingdom of Aksum: Munro-Hay, Stuart (1991). Aksum: An African Civilization of Late Antiquity (PDF). Edinburgh: University Press. p. 57. Archived from the original (PDF) on January 23, 2013. Retrieved February 1, 2013.
• From Ethiopia: Munro-Hay, p. 57
• From Religion in Eritrea: Munro-Hay, Stuart (1991) Aksum: An African Civilization of Late Antiquity. Edinburgh: University Press, p. 65 ISBN 0-7486-0106-6.
• From Eritrea: Munro-Hay, Stuart (1991). Aksum: An African Civilization of Late Antiquity (PDF). Edinburgh: University Press. p. 57. ISBN 0-7486-0106-6.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 16:36, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

We Eritrean Tigrinya speakers are Tigrayans, like Ethiopian Tigrayans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We Eritrean Tigrinya speakers are Tigrayans, Tigrinya is just our language. Please do not try to destroy our ethnic name. We Eritrean Tigrayans and Ethiopians Tigrayans experience several good times and history. So I recommend deleting this article and that we include this article in the "Tigrayan" article. Midre bahri (talk) 16:37, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

Tigrinya Muslims

I am Eritrean Tigrinya, and I'm sure that there is minority Muslims Sunni among Tigrinya people. Thank you 2A00:1851:8005:20B0:1:1:2DDA:D729 (talk) 16:12, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

Ultra ethno-nationalists keep trolling this Wiki page. Tigrayans are not Tigrinyas and vice-versa.

I corrected a historically and factually incorrect edit. It has already been discussed and established that Tigrayans are not Tigrinyas, and Tigrinyas are not Tigrayans. Both peoples do not consider or call each other by the same identity. Tigrayans do not call themselves "Tigrinya people"; this is an Eritrean term for the Tigrinya-speaking people in Eritrea. Rather, Tigrayans call themselves Tigrayans or Tegaru, which is directly and specifically referring to the region of Tigray in Ethiopia. Likewise, Tigrinya people do not and are not called "Tigrayans" - they don't live in Tigray and are not from there. To make an analogy, Austrians and Germans speak the same language and have similar cultures and distinctly different dialects. Yet anyone who would edit the Wiki page for the Austrian people by claiming they are Germans would be banned. And it's only recently in history that Austrians began identifying as Austrians instead of Germans. Meanwhile Tigrinya people have never considered themselves Tigrayans or been considered Tigrayans, and certainly not by Tigrayans themselves. Some ultra ethnonationalists keep trying to edit this page to fit their historically and factually baseless narrative. Please don't let it happen again. Thank you. 78.73.47.101 (talk) 20:19, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Eritrean tigrinyas 55%-60%

Tigrinyas in Eritrea in Eritrea are the largest tribe with 55-60% of the population but you are undercounting Etnic tigrinyas but overcounting Muslim lowlander tribes 2003:CB:4F07:7800:A89E:B8F2:9E8F:8C5D (talk) 06:29, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

Tribe that is indigenous to Eritrea

Tribe that is indigenous to Eritrea 2003:CB:4F37:DA00:8927:AE91:776D:682F (talk) 01:35, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Add to the wikipage that Eritrean Tigrinya are indigenous to Eritrea like you did on the Kunama Wikipedia page

Can you add to the wiki page that, the Eritrean Tigrinya tribe is indigenous to Eritrea like you did on the kunama Wikipedia page

eritrean Tigrinyas have lived for 3.000 years and more in Eritrea.

Ona-Sembel the civilization of Asmara is the oldest civilization of east Africa dating back to 800-1000bc.

eritrean Tigrinyas native and indigenous to Eritrea. Like you stated on the kunama toic on Wikipedia you have also to state that Eritrean Tigrinya and all tribes of eritrea who have been for thousands of years in eritrea are indigenous to eritrea.

tigrinya Tigre Saho Afar have been for thousands of years Eritrea. Please don’t discriminate the one tribe and favor the other tribes. Tigrinyas tigres Sahos Afars are as indigenous to Eritrea as Kunamas and Naras. Please correct your information and also labor the other tribes who have lived in eritrea for thousands of years as indigenous to eritra 2003:CB:4F37:DA00:8927:AE91:776D:682F (talk) 01:40, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Deletion proposal for Tig (Tigrinya language)

I have proposed the deletion of the page Tig (Tigrinya language). This page aims to clarify the distinctions between Tigrinya, Tigre, Tigrai, & numerous derived terms. You can find the deletion discussion page here: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tig (Tigrinya language). Very briefly, I do not oppose some clarification page as such, but rather oppose the invented term tig. I strongly encourage those who are following this page & who have an opinion on the matter to vote or comment at the deletion discussion—whether or not they agree with me. Pathawi (talk) 17:28, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

Tigrayans and Tigrinya people

They posted wrong information. Tigrinyas and Tigrayans were same people - Tigray People from Kingdom of Ethiopia (North Ethiopia) till 1890 like North Korea and South Korea. Italy then took territories from North Ethiopia, which belonged to Tigray region. They have the same DNA. They have the same culture. They have the same language. They have same faith, They are the same people. To say that they are two different people for political reason is misinformation. They are basically saying Tigrinyas are better thanTigrayans because they are exposed to western culture. I think it should be corrected. It is an insult to a lot of Tigray people. 2603:8000:A542:900A:301E:59BD:CA9F:9434 (talk) 07:34, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Ignoring your clear historical revisionism, we can just look at precedent to determine that the Tigrayan and Biher-Tigrinya (Kebessa is the historical name) can be delineated from each other. In the same way that Austrians/Germans,Bosnians/Serbs/Croats/Montenegrins, Romanians/Moldovans, Dutch/Flemish and so forth are. You’re perspective on ethnogenesis is one that is only commonly held amongst Pan-Tigrayanist and not the consensus 81.104.8.31 (talk) 14:41, 1 December 2023 (UTC)