Talk:Thorfinn (Vinland Saga)

Thorfinn (Vinland Saga) has been listed as one of the Language and literature good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: July 6, 2023. (Reviewed version).

A fact from Thorfinn (Vinland Saga) appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 26 September 2023 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Thorfinn's journey to Vinland in the manga Vinland Saga was influenced by the author's anxieties during the Cold War and the September 11 attacks?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2023/September. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Thorfinn (Vinland Saga).

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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:39, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Thorfinn (Vinland Saga)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: ProtoDrake (talk · contribs) 22:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'll take this one on. If I'm not back in a week, ping me. --ProtoDrake (talk) 22:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Tintor2: Hi. I've had a look through the article. It seems okay to Pass. If I missed anything, it can be picked up, but this was an interesting and well-sourced article. --ProtoDrake (talk) 11:30, 6 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 22:04, 19 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

... that Thorfinn's growth was inspired by Olaf Tryggvason due to how they change from slaves to pacifists during the course of the story? Source: Yukimura, Makoto (2018). Vinland Saga. Vol. 10. Kodansha Comics. p. 397. ISBN 978-1632366306.
- Reviewed:

Improved to Good Article status by Tintor2 (talk). Nominated by Gus1001 (talk) at 16:05, 6 July 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Thorfinn (Vinland Saga); consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.[reply]

My name is Tintor2 and I approve of this nomination :) If there are more ideas I'd suggest "Did you know Thorfinn was based on both the real Thorfinn as well as Leif Erikson in regards to the search for Vinland?" or "Did you know Thorfinn marries a woman named Gudrid who is based on the real Thorfinn's wife?" Tintor2 (talk) 23:34, 6 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Tintor2: Maybe you can write up the alternate DYKs above and include the sources as well! :) --Gus1001 (talk) 00:18, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think I reached My limit of noms. Tintor2 (talk) 00:28, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Tintor2: You are more than welcome to suggest alternate hooks. (Also refactored and added a signature for the last comment.) Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 01:27, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don't really know DYK procedures, but noting the nominator is now blocked as checkuser confirmed LTA sock. -- ferret (talk) 00:59, 9 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

ferret for future reference, a self-nomination can just be closed. If it's a drive-by, the author of the article can take over the nomination if they want to, as they've done here. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 00:18, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This is a newly promoted GA. The proposed hook fact would be fine if there were an inline citation invoke for it immediately at that sentence, but the hook fact wording does need some work. This is a reworded ALT0a. @Tintor2: Please tell me if I have this right and to where it should be cited: Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 08:23, 12 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- ... that Thorfinn's character arc in the Vinland Saga series was inspired by the time spent by Norwegian king Olaf Tryggvason in servitude?
  - @Sammi Brie: I like it. Thanks for the ping. Olaf Tryggvason was the inspiration. An alternate source is this this videoTintor2 (talk) 18:31, 12 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    - This passage will need an inline citation. I'm also a bit concerned based on reading the Olaf article that he was not a king before becoming a slave, so that might need rewording, Tintor2. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 23:48, 12 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      - @Tintor2: Any desire to move forward on this? Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 04:19, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Sammi Brie: Thanks for the ping. According to this interview with the creator, Olaf was a king who lost position to become a slave but later became a king again: "Thorfinn was inspired by the King of Norway Olaf Tryggvason, who lost his position as a king and became a slave, but managed to reacquire kingship." This is the most direct quote from the creator of Thorfinn"TV Anime 「VINLAND SAGA」SEASON 2 PROJECT MOVIE 特別インタビュー原作：幸村誠". Twin Engine. In case we need a more accessible one, we have this

"La cultura nórdica como fuente de inspiración para el fenómeno Vinland Saga". Anime Atsit. Retrieved July 31, 2023. or this
"Norse Culture as a Source of Inspiration for the Vinland Saga Phenomenon". Anime News Network. Retrieved July 31, 2023.
- Those check out, Tintor2, but I also don't see them as aligning with the detail in our Olaf Tryggvason. He didn't reign as king before becoming a slave, though he was apparently of royal lineage. Let me ask some people for advice privately and get back. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 00:45, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe Wikipedia's article isn't properly revised. Just googling Olaf plus slave sent to research about his life https://thehistorianshut.com/2019/07/28/according-to-tradition-king-olaf-i-of-norway-was-enslaved-as-a-child/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tintor2 (talk • contribs) 01:14, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Theleekycauldron and BlueMoonset: I would like a determination here since this has languished. The article checked out...except to our own article on the king. It could be a misconception, but I dunno how to proceed. Thoughts? Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 05:35, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Was asked to comment here. I looked at this...over a month ago now...and still have no real clue what to do with it. "Historian's Hut" looks more than a little shady, but even if it's an outright misconception, well, maybe it's a notable one. It might actually be for the best to leave a note about this at a relevant wikiproject, because this is really a broad content issue and not a DYK-specific one. Vaticidalprophet 23:50, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Vaticidalprophet: Can I make an alternate and more common knowledge DYK then rather than comment on the Olaf then?

How about? "Thorfinn's journey to Vinland in the Vinland Saga manga was based on were based on the author's anxieties during the Cold War and September 11 attacks as the protagonist wishes to live together peacefully in a more peaceful land?".^[1]

Or

"Did you know Thorfinn from Vinland Saga was based on the historical early Vinland explorer Thorfinn Karlsefni as little information is known about his early years?".^[2]"

- @Tintor2: You have to ping AND sign in the same post, so here's a ping for Vaticidalprophet. My main concern that I see looking at this is that they are too long and not tightly written. Let me try ALT1, though I don't like ALT2: Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 17:39, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  - ALT1: ... that Thorfinn's journey to Vinland in the Vinland Saga manga was inspired by the author's anxieties during the Cold War and September 11 attacks?
  - ALT2: ... that Thorfinn from the Vinland Saga manga was based on the historical early Vinland explorer Thorfinn Karlsefni, about whose early life little is known?
  - @Sammi Brie: Nice. Thanks. The thing about ALT2 that could be added is that the author specifically chose Karlsefni because, since there was little known about his early life, the manga comes up with his own origin story as a Viking until he becomes similar to such figure during his adulthood.Tintor2 (talk) 21:35, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    - It will end up falling to me to approve these. I know that's weird, but I feel like I am reformulating the proposed hooks for clarity. The hook facts and their articles are in the article. The sources used are both in Japanese. I think this is finally ready. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 02:51, 18 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Cold War?

I know this is what the source says. But that doesn't make sense. He was born in 1976. The Cold War ended when he was ~15, in 1991, if not a bit earlier. Considering Japan was a semi-pacifist state during that period... that does not compute on more than one level. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 14:00, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm confused but after reading his AnimeNewsNetwork interviews, it's kinda obvious Yukimura is a sensitive who cares about past events too. Just check Yukimura's article and you'll see he was heavily influenced by a late author so I can see him caring about previous conflicts similar to how Thorfinn is proud of his predecessors for escaping from war. In Twitter he also often talks about Ukraine situation and more political commentaries. Tintor2 (talk) 16:46, 26 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

My problem is with the current phrasing "Yukimura's sensation during the Cold War" (too late to fix for DYK). Setting aside that I don't think "sensation" is correct English, I still doubt his thoughts about geopolitical situation (?) when he was aged <15 were that formative. The source says: "　“I fear that as a result of this repetition, someday an unimaginable war will break out. This is the unease I felt as a child during the Cold War between East and West. I often thought that I had no choice but to leave to a place where I couldn't reach them. I wanted to run away."" I'll try to reword the sentence we have for accuracy/English/common sense, do let me know what you think (done). _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:41, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

^ "「逃げる戦士」描きたい北欧バイキング題材に暴力の連鎖問う幸村誠さん（漫画家）". Tokyo NP. Archived from the original on September 7, 2022. Retrieved September 7, 2022.
^ "【インタビュー】『ヴィンランド・サガ』幸村誠「『暴力が嫌い』を描きたかったら、描く世界は暴力に満ちたほうがいい。」【アニメ化＆22巻発売記念！】". Media Comic Space (in Japanese). Retrieved August 28, 2022.

[1] "「逃げる戦士」描きたい北欧バイキング題材に暴力の連鎖問う幸村誠さん（漫画家）". Tokyo NP. Archived from the original on September 7, 2022. Retrieved September 7, 2022.

[2] "【インタビュー】『ヴィンランド・サガ』幸村誠「『暴力が嫌い』を描きたかったら、描く世界は暴力に満ちたほうがいい。」【アニメ化＆22巻発売記念！】". Media Comic Space (in Japanese). Retrieved August 28, 2022.

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