Talk:The Super Mario Bros. Movie/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Country of Production

Please do not use sources that just state certain companies involvement for the Production country. You'll need to find sources that specifically state the country of production over just companies involved because listing companies involved only is original research (see WP:OR). If there are discrepancies (and there often are with this kind of information in film articles, let's look at them on the talk page first.) Andrzejbanas (talk) 19:55, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

• Also, there is a hidden note I placed reminding that the country of origin should be confirmed by reliable sources. If no reliable source is shown for other countries, the edit is reverted. BaldiBasicsFan (talk) 20:00, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

  Thanks @BaldiBasicsFan. I've expanded on some sources here to see if we can find some common grounds.

  • Screen Daily: US production.

  and uhh. that's all I could find. I feel if such a box office hit was a Japanese co-production, there would be details on how this was also breaking Japanese animation production records or some news of the hybrid. There is none. Looking at the actual film credits, outside the executive producers, there are no Japanese names involved. The very end credits also note that the film received some sort of tax-refund (possibly for some animation detail in France). This is all original research and shouldn't be applied, but so far, I'm not very convinced by it being technical Japanese production or co-production despite the Nintendo name on it. Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:20, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

  As I have been asked to clarify, you can see the US credit in the Screen Daily article at the top where it states "Dirs: Aaron Horvath, Michael Jelenic. US. 2023. 92mins". The bold is my own emphasis. Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:28, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

  Outside googling, AllMovie also only lists "United States" as the country here. Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:32, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

  I have just checked and the list of countries in AllMovies is 'Japan, United States'. Yuta5622 (talk) 08:44, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

  @Andrzejbanas: I also see "Japan, United States" on AllMovie. ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 13:44, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

  You know this film was co-produced by Shigeru Miyamoto, Koji Kondo co-composed the soundtrack, and Nintendo Japan itself told Illumination what to and not to do, right? 151.82.245.201 (talk) 17:29, 23 May 2023 (UTC)strike sock-- Ponyo^{bons mots} 21:28, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

The Numbers lists both Japan and the United States. Throast ^{{{ping}} me!} (talk | contribs) 21:10, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

The Numbers just pulls their information from IMDb though, which we don't follow use per WP:RS/IMDb. I usually feel iffy about Box Office sites or sites like Rotten Tomatoes as specific credential information when their primary focus is to give financial details. Andrzejbanas (talk) 21:25, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

I am the one that originally removed Japan from the infobox and added the Screen Daily source for the US. I’m assuming someone added Japan because Nintendo is involved. Like previously stated, The Numbers pulls from IMDb. If we can find reliable sources that state it’s a Japanese co-production then we can certainly include it. However, I couldn’t find any. Mike Allen 21:39, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

How do you know that they pull their data from IMDb? Not that that's inconceivable, I'm genuinely curious. Throast ^{{{ping}} me!} (talk | contribs) 21:42, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Can't seem to find where I've found that (will share when I can find it), but even they state they give their own doubt for their production countries on their own site. Stating that "Note: Since we are still actively researching production countries, we consider this chart to be in beta mode." for their information on production countries and their box office.". That's enough for me to be iffy on using the site for anything really beyond Box Office info. Andrzejbanas (talk) 21:53, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

The problem is that secondary sources rarely refer to films in these terms (e.g. "American-Japanese co-production"). In this case, they often name the companies that are co-producing, "co-production between Illumination, Universal, and Nintendo". {{Infobox film}} also highlights the issue of determining the country of origin: There are no widely accepted international or even European definitions of the criteria to be used to determine the country of origin of a film. [...] Countries involved in a joint production are not always indicated (even when the main coproducer is from another country). If we use production company headquarters as the standard, the film is undoubtedly an American-Japanese co-production since Nintendo is headquartered in Japan. Throast ^{{{ping}} me!} (talk | contribs) 15:58, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

The thing with that is, it gets complicated with these kind of items. Is this just "Nintendo" the company? Square I believe even made "Square Films" which was based on Hawaii for their Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within. As stated above, if this was Japanese, there would be Japanese press stating how this is one of the highest grossing Japanese productions (or even co-productions). There hasn't been, so it gets more complicated even based on the rules. The rule you stated also appears to be for European co-productions, which this is not. Andrzejbanas (talk) 21:27, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

Just to be clear, I don't care about the outcome. Just trying to illustrate why this is a complex issue. The EAO excerpt that {{Infobox film}} cites is not a rule that is supposed to be applied on Wikipedia, and I don't think I implied that at all. Again, just a way to illustrate the issue. Throast ^{{{ping}} me!} (talk | contribs) 21:41, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

Oh totally. Doing these things is a nightmare and has gone harder as films have received funding from every which location now for tax and whatever reasons. All we can really do is go with what sources state. Andrzejbanas (talk) 00:39, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

Usually we could use the BFI or/and the AFI as reliable sources for this field. However, there's sill not an entry listed on either sites for this film. Mike Allen 02:06, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

Yeah it's slow to the punch. I'm going to guess the BFI published Sight & Sound will review the film next month and have something published there. Andrzejbanas (talk) 02:23, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

I don't know if BFI is always consistent with wikipedia rules. For example, the movie The three musketeers: D'Artagnan has France, Germany, Spain and Belgium on wikipedia, and only France on this BFI listing. Is it related to the fact that rules are different for European co-productions? Anyway, I agree that doing these things has gone harder. 2001:861:39C4:2340:3E52:9E4B:AF6C:EE22 (talk) 19:31, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

Miyamoto recently did an interview where he explains: "Since we were creating this movie in both Japan and the United States, we thought we should make a Japanese version as well," he said. "When we decided to make this movie, we discussed creating a unique Japanese script from the beginning. Even if we were shown an English script, it would be hard to understand the subtle nuances." 2A00:23C6:1EBB:7701:1464:A33F:17CE:E643 (talk) 20:54, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

That doesn't really state the technical elements of what makes it a Japanese production. Andrzejbanas (talk) 04:57, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

Which are what exactly..? ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 15:15, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

It's complicated because it is not clear how much of the "funding" is actually coming to Nintendo on this and a certain percentage of the funds of the film are required to make something a production of the country. Even if they were split evenly, (which I would be surprised by), I'm not sure if that would be enough. Andrzejbanas (talk) 12:37, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

I don't think Wikipedia should necessarily be concerned with these details. If a significant number sources list it as both an American and Japanese production, we include it here. The Miyamoto quote heavily weighs in favor; the "Representative Director" at Nintendo ought to know to what extent the Japanese arm of the company was involved. Throast ^{{{ping}} me!} (talk | contribs) 10:58, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

This source is a review from a member of the Broadcast Film Critics Association listing the movie as "United States/Japan". It seems as reliable as Screen Daily. 2001:861:39C4:2340:3E52:9E4B:AF6C:EE22 (talk) 19:16, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

I've changed the infobox back to the United States. I don't think that the Australian board is a bad or unusable source, but just because one says one thing and the other says another, I don't think it makes one more correct than the other either. I'm suggesting now we drop "American" in the lead and leave it with just US for now, because that's the only one we know for sure. (Maybe we can add a hatnote?). Let's just wait for more sources to show up. As this is such a high grossing movies, I'm sure specific information will eventually rise from it. Andrzejbanas (talk) 04:58, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

• If the United States is solely involved, I assume that Nintendo of America was involved instead of the original Japanese Nintendo. BaldiBasicsFan (talk) 02:15, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Critical Reception In Lead

All I did was noted the aspects from the critical reception of the reception section of the article, which I know has reliable sources, but GoneIn60 contracted my talk page and reverted my edits and called what I put in the lead section "synthesis". I was clearly going by what the reliable sources say, not original research. If the critical reception sources are WP:OR, would they get removed? BaldiBasicsFan (talk) 14:57, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

BaldiBasicsFan: Please review WP:FILMLEAD which states, "Any summary of the film's critical reception should avoid synthesis, meaning it should reflect an overall consensus explicitly summarized by one or more reliable sources."

Creating a summary statement is a form of synthesis, because none of the sources you are summarizing are drawing the conclusion that you are. For example, Soren Andersen of The Seattle Times criticized all characters and vocal performances, but Ross Bonaime of Collider did the opposite in his review, praising all vocal performances and speaking of the "glee" of seeing these characters on screen. You see these kinds of disparities between reviews all the time. We cannot and should not be trying to summarize the reception. Instead, a reliable source should form that summary for us, as I noted on your talk page. This has also been discussed at length at the Film project, and it's the reason why we added that statement to WP:FILMLEAD.

Secondly, you have to realize that the reviews in the critical reception section were hand-picked by us, Wikipedia editors. How do you know we picked the ones that accurately reflect the consensus? You don't, therefore, you cannot then form a summary based on those reviews, because your summary you just created might leave out reviews that weren't considered but should have been. --GoneIn60 (talk) 15:41, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 May 2023

please change "third-highest-grossing animated film" to "third-highest-grossing animated film" Fencethefourth (talk) 17:47, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: There's no net change in your edit request. ThomasO1989 (talk) 17:51, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 June 2023

The Mario movie is now scheduled to be released on Blu-Ray DVD and 4K on June 13. Mariomovie23 (talk) 14:52, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. --Pinchme123 (talk) 18:11, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 June 2023 (2)

I found a Coming Soon source that says that the film would release on Peacock on June 28, 2023. In the home media section, please add "The film is scheduled to be released on NBCUniversal's Peacock streaming service on June 28, 2023." and the source, before "As part of their 18-month deal with Netflix, the film will stream on Peacock for the first four months of the pay-TV window, then will move to Netflix for the next ten, and then will return to Peacock for the remaining four." 2607:FEA8:761B:C900:FD92:DDFA:3B:8CEB (talk) 21:42, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

 Semi-done, as I replaced “scheduled” by “anticipated”, since the source indicates that it is only a prevision for the release on Peacock. Thank you! Cocobb8 (talk) 16:11, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

References

box office admissions

is anything known about this?

I can only found South Korea and Japan so far Braganza (talk) 07:36, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 June 2023

142.118.36.222 (talk) 02:01, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

I want to adding for another spin-off.

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 04:07, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 June 2023 (2)

208.104.68.40 (talk) 20:53, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ThomasO1989 (talk) 20:57, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 June 2023

41.141.192.168 (talk) 13:11, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

 Already exists?: The info box already states the producers, what are you exactly suggesting?

Thanks, NotAGenious (talk) 13:20, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

The Producers are CHRIS MELEDANDRI AND SHIGERU MIYAMOTTO

Semi-protected edit request on 3 July 2023

105.155.183.169 (talk) 14:24, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Look, can you fix this? I mean, you are such a Dumbass because you put Produced by SHIGERU MIYAMOTO and CHRIS MELEDANDRI You Idiot. It's Produced by CHRIS MELEDANDRI and SHIGERU MIYAMOTO, That's Correct, and the film's genre is not Just Adventure film, it's Adventure Fantasy Comedy film That's correct. Now go fix it you're making Wikipedia worst. NOW FIX IT!

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Cherrell410 (talk) 16:54, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 July 2023

In the reception section, it’s actually 59% of critics that are poisitve out of 268 critics who reviewed. This is because 2 more critcs wrote a review of the movie. Although, more critics might review this movie and the score might update further.Edit: It updated back to 58% because there are now 269 critcs who reviewed 2600:1700:3820:1990:A808:C1AE:D248:7643 (talk) 21:09, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

 Done Xan747 (talk) 01:35, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 July 2023 (2)

24.184.171.97 (talk) 23:42, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Xan747 (talk) 01:36, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

Production country

Why was it changed to just the United States? The previous discussion was leaning towards not mentioning the country in the lead while mentioning both United States and Japan in the Infobox. 147.12.151.166 (talk) 01:03, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

No it wasn't. Mike Allen 01:11, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

There are multiple reliable sources that list it as a US-Japan co-production. You can't just cherry-pick one source (Screen) that only lists the US and go with that. That's giving WP:UNDUE weight to a single source. 147.12.151.166 (talk) 02:04, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

List them. Mike Allen 02:05, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

The film's co-producer Shigeru Miyamoto stated "we were creating this movie in both Japan and the United States". The Australian Classification Board lists the "Country of origin" as both USA and Japan. AllMovie lists the Countries as Japan and United States. This review from a Broadcast Film Critics Association member lists the movie as United States/Japan. And so on. 147.12.151.166 (talk) 10:11, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

It is no longer the highest grossing movie of the year

Barbie is Idonthaveausernameidonthaeit (talk) 00:36, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 September 2023 I want to edit this

2600:4808:88D0:7C00:C155:D3AE:C671:7853 (talk) 16:30, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone may add them for you, or if you have an account, you can wait until you are autoconfirmed and edit the page yourself.  BelowTheSun  (T•C) 16:53, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

"Untitled Mario film" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Untitled Mario film has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 November 15 § Untitled Mario film until a consensus is reached. Pizzaplayer219^Talk_Contribs 14:54, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

"Chanterelle (The Super Mario Bros. Movie)" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Chanterelle (The Super Mario Bros. Movie) has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 November 15 § Chanterelle (The Super Mario Bros. Movie) until a consensus is reached. Pizzaplayer219^Talk_Contribs 14:58, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

"Draft:Untitled animated Mario film" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Draft:Untitled animated Mario film has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 November 15 § Draft:Untitled animated Mario film until a consensus is reached. Pizzaplayer219^Talk_Contribs 14:59, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

"Draft:Untitled Mario film" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Draft:Untitled Mario film has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 November 15 § Draft:Untitled Mario film until a consensus is reached. Pizzaplayer219^Talk_Contribs 15:00, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Post-Credits

Aren't we allowed to write about pos-credit scenes in the article plot? They're part of the movie anyway. Steelbrain152 (talk) 00:16, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

I think we should 2605:B100:533:197B:8113:4FE4:288A:60AA (talk) 21:33, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

As discussed in earlier threads, no. Per MOS:FILMPLOT: "The inclusion of mid- and post-credit scenes should be based on the same criteria used to evaluate the relevance of other scenes." It's an easter egg that has no bearing on the main plot. ThomasO1989 (talk) 21:44, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Why did the premise section of the Mario movie get removed?

It’s before the films release but idk if this has to do Nintendo being secretive 2605:B100:525:C8FE:E9A3:5F65:DEA:A02C (talk) 21:09, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Nintendo doesn't edit these articles. The Premise section is outdated given that we already have a fleshed out Plot section. ThomasO1989 (talk) 21:48, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Franchise = sequel

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

In the article there is currently a statement which reads In November 2023, the chairman of Universal Studio Group, Donna Langley, described The Super Mario Bros. Movie as a franchise in a press release, hinting a potential sequel. with a source to where she said this. To me this feels like WP:OR as we are the ones that are inferring that since she mentioned it to be a franchise that it could mean a sequel rather than the source itself. ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{blaze__wolf} 00:23, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Good catch. It's been removed as WP:OR. Mike Allen 00:40, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Glad I wasn't going crazy. If it had been a non-self published source it probably would've been fine but since the source is self published in this case it felt like a clear example of OR. ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{blaze__wolf} 00:43, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

But the sequel has to be announced now that the writers/actors strikes are over 2605:B100:50D:B675:E940:CE02:50C1:1FEB (talk) 13:15, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

That's now how these things work. That's also not how movies work. ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{blaze__wolf} 13:21, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Yes it is how it works stop lying 2605:B100:525:C8FE:E9A3:5F65:DEA:A02C (talk) 21:08, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Whether or not the strike is over, you need a reliable source that states that a sequel is in the works. ThomasO1989 (talk) 21:50, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Are you stupid the wga and sag AFTRA strikes already ended on September and November this month so that has to do with the fact that Nintendo needs to make Mario movie 2 duh 70.30.217.146 (talk) 03:28, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

No it does not. Nintendo does not need to make a sequel to the movie. While fans would be disappointed, Nintendo would do just fine as a company. ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{blaze__wolf} 03:30, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Yes they have to like it’s not fair 70.30.217.146 (talk) 03:35, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

The yoshi egg at the post credits scene was sequel bait even though the critics hated it but did financially well 70.30.217.146 (talk) 03:36, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

"Fair" is completely irrelevant. I'm closing this thread as further discussion of this will not merit anything of use. ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{blaze__wolf} 03:37, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

No it isny 70.30.217.146 (talk) 03:38, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Doesn't this movie count as an American-Japanese co-production?

Production companies are Illumination and Nintendo. Wouldn't that make it an American-Japanese movie? PorkatalPorkatal (talk) 17:35, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 December 2023

The film received mixed reviews with praise for the accuracy to the source material, references, and Black’s performance as Bowser but criticism for the lack of plot and character development and Pratt’s performance as Mario 198.217.126.185 (talk) 17:34, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. - FlightTime (open channel) 17:38, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 December 2023 (2)

"Change Bowser's love interest to Mario's love interest at Princess Peach's line in the cast section. It was shown several times during the movie that there is romantic tension between Mario and Peach, evidenced by their first eye contact, their longing gazes at each other during the fire flower field, their flirting on Rainbow Road, and even them holding hands at Bowser's crashed wedding before Bowser broke free of the ice. And it was confirmed by Hollywood Reporter that she is Mario's love interest. Plus Bowser only sees Peach as a lust interest, evidenced by how he only likes her for 'her heart-shaped bangs, the way she floats in the breeze, her immovable tiara'." Animaknight (talk) 20:08, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Liu1126 (talk) 00:51, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

I've added a source under Hollywood Reporter. Animaknight (talk) 02:10, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

That source doesn't state what you are implying (NVM).The rest is just your interpretation. Mike Allen 02:12, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

 Partly done: That suffices to show that Princess Peach is Mario's love interest, but the statement that she is Bowser's love interest is also supported by existing sources. Hence, I have included both. Liu1126 (talk) 02:13, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Box office Mojo Vs. The Numbers

DO NOT use The Numbers as source, the right source is BOM, already linked Iacowriter (talk) 02:03, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

@Iacowriter: What's wrong with The Numbers? ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{blaze__wolf} 02:19, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Basically, what happens is when I try to put the fox office number for Mario from the numbers, they tell me not to do that. They say DO NOT use The Numbers as source, the right source is BOM, already linked Iacowriter (talk) 03:10, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

@Iacowriter: I'm not seeing anything stating that. ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{blaze__wolf} 03:17, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Look on highest grossing films’ edit Iacowriter (talk) 12:28, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 January 2024

Hey! I just want to fix and make a minor edit where the box office section is. If I can do that, it will be very nice and make the page look better. Thank you! Superhero98 (talk) 01:35, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. (We can't grant the power for you to make the changes yourself - edit requests are so that others can edit on your behalf. Without clear instructions, there's nothing we can do. Alternatively, you can make ten edits elsewhere to become autoconfirmed, come back here and make the edit yourself). twotwos (talk) 01:54, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

Sequel or follow up?

Although it's almost obvious that the newly announced film it's a sequel and multiple actors have called it so neither the filmmakers nor Nintendo nor trade pages have refered to it as so, just as " a new Mario movie". So I think the appropriate term would be he " follow up" Nils2088 (talk) 20:58, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

be “follow up”* Osb21313 (talk) 21:01, 10 March 2024 (UTC)