Talk:Mentors (band)

Papa sneaky sperm shooter and ed Danky are the same person. Ed Danky died in 1990 of a cocaine related stroke . Also scott wino weinrich from the Obsessed/St Vitus played guitar with them at some point.small class="autosigned">— Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.110.218.69 (talk) 23:36, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Untitled

Group Members needs to be updated massively. Also what was Jeff Dahl's stage name, as I am unable to verify it at this time?

Also, it may be mentionable to include info on the "Church Of El Duce". Here's a link to the Church Of El Duce's Website if someone wishes to add this to the article. I'd do it myself, but I'm not sure if I should: http://www.churchofelduce.com/main.htm

--MadDax 18:13, 18 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Although I do not know his real name, the new singer for the band goes by the monicker "El Rapo". Brokenbones 03:57, 19 April 2006 (UTC)brokenbones[reply]

chronic, acute alcoholism

This is impossible: "chronic, acute alcoholism".Spearhead 18:00, 14 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed; it's an oxymoron. An illness can only be one or the other, but not both. Changed to simply read "alcoholism" for now. 82.2.148.214 20:43, 23 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's not impossible for El Duce! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.82.132.97 (talk) 11:54, 7 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Alcoholism...

Should the fact that El Duce was also a chronic meth user be included? I mention this because this was a widely accepted fact in the venues he frequented. user:jerry.mills

It's hard to wrap my head around El Duce as a meth-head. He's hard to write about, though, because he belonged to an underground culture that doesn't write the history books--are there any verifiable sources that discuss his use of meth? It's got be more than a widely accepted fact among hangers-outers, because public interpretation of personnas are not verifiable sources, and often grossly inaccurate. I stuck with the verifiable for my own additions to this page, although I don't think they cover the full story well--which may be what you're considering, is some part of the story missing. I don't know if others would consider it important to know he used meth, if, indeed, he did.

I actually would have called him a chronic acute alcoholic, at least in the beginning. Technically it's an oxymoron, but whoever posted that probably used "chronic acute" from personal experience with a younger El Duce.

Pretty good page. Nice to see there is a Mentors page and interested writers in Wikipedia. Maybe today's underground culture won't disappear. KP Botany 19:51, 28 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The inevitable Matt Frewer connection

The Mentors song "Four F Club" was used in the Max Headroom porn-parody Maxine (with Porsche Lynn as "Maxine Bedroom"). So the distance to Kevin Bacon cannot be much farther. Asat 11:01, 17 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:Get up and die82.jpg

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BetacommandBot 12:14, 7 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Deliberate omission of Mike Dewey

Mike Dewey, being the original Dr. Heathen Scum, has been deliberately omitted and discredited here and I can only assume that Mr. Broy, having stolen the original Dr Heathen Scum's name, needs to hide all references to the man he's stolen so much from. Very disgusting. Not only was Mike Dewey known as Dr. Heathen Scum long before he ever joined The Mentors, but his songwriting creativity was also clearly missing on releases after the great "Get Up And Die" EP which Mike also produced.

I don't give a crap about Broy's version of the Mentors, he can keep fellating that dead horse as long as he wants. What he can't do is rewrite history and steal credit and cash from those who came before him. Those who were there (such as myself) need to collectively hold this Mr. Broy's feet to the fire until he tells the truth. Sickie, you in particular ought not to allow this identity theft to take place. You don't have to be friends with Mike anymore to know that what's right is right.

-Steve humann (talk) 04:00, 8 September 2008 (UTC) (original Mentors fan) Get over this! Mr Broy Started the band with El Duce[reply]

Get over this! Broy Started the band with El Duce & Sickie. Mike Dewey was in the band only as a short time replacement when Broy was in collage. If Mike Dewey chose to have victim stamped on his forehead and do nothing about this, That’s his own fault. Second of all “Get Up & Die” and the other 3 songs on that E.P. were written by: Hoke, Broy & Carlson in Seattle in 1977. As far as Production Phil Raves with Mr. Dewey did a total underhanded maneuver behind Sickie’s & Duce Backs By omitting the song Writers/Musicians from the mix down process. And Further more making that out of tune bass guitar louder then the vocals. Mike Dewey was known as Heathen Scum Wezda. But, Brain Slagle C.E.O. “Metal Blade Record” Put the name in the Contract & Cut Wezda out of the name. So it stuck! As far as rewrite history and cash???? History is BROY WAS FIRST AND WHAT CASH??? We hope Dewey is doing good and remains Clean, Sober. & in good Health. But lets not Beat this Dead Horse anymore.

Sickie…. P.S. if you erase this I’ll keep reposting it!

Mike Dewey should be listed as a former member. However, can we clarify if he performed as Dr. Heathen Scum"? On the Sex Drugs and Rock and Roll album, it lists "Zippy" as the bass player, and says "some parts played by "Sneaky Spermshooter" and Dr. Heathen Scum. Is it possible that Mr. Dewey was Zippy or Sneaky Spermshooter?Mk5384 (talk) 23:13, 22 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Does anyone have a source that Mike Dewey performed with the group as "Heathen Scum Wezda", so we can include him here?Mk5384 (talk) 00:42, 25 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Now, in another section, I have also seen "Ed Danky", and "Rick Lomas" as former members. Can anyone confirm or deny this?Mk5384 (talk) 14:55, 25 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Rick Lomas played drums with them circa 1990. I'm not sure about Ed Danky. Regarding Mike Dewey, I'm also not sure. I juggled the formatting and info around a bit, but if anyone has any (preferably verifiable), please go ahead and add it and/or correct my additions. Colinclarksmith (talk) 05:31, 12 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I imagine that I should have said this a while ago, but I've done my best to reconstruct the chronology using a number of sources (all of which I cited, I think.) As I understand it, Broy was the founding bassist, Dewey (following two short-lived replacements) served in the band from 1980-84, Broy returned for a few years, Danky and Zippy replaced Broy from about 1986-89, and Broy has been with the group ever since. If anyone objects to this chronology, please let us know so we can get this thing right. Colinclarksmith (talk) 17:23, 18 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Musical style?

What the heck is rape rock? Just because that's how they billed themselves doesn't make it a genre classification in its own right! I'm changing this to say that they were shock rock, because that's what they were in the truest sense of "shock rock." Lest ye have a differing opinion, please don't hesitate to politely bring it to my attention. 62 Misfit (talk) 13:17, 18 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The Mentors were definetly known as "rape rock". Not shock rock-the difference being that "rape rock" was a joke. And perhaps the funniest part of the joke was the fact that so many people thought that it was completely serious.Mk5384 (talk) 23:18, 22 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Death of Hoke

While the circumstances of Hoke's death remain mysterious, there is no proof at all that he was murdered, and it can't be included here.Mk5384 (talk) 19:14, 22 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

A few biographical points

I went ahead and did a big copy edit and cleanup of the article. There are a few biographical points that seem unclear to me, and I am just now noticing that some of these are being addressed here on the Talk page. The two points that seem unclear are 1.) whether or not the band was active in the mid-late 1990s; and 2.) who exactly Dr. Heathen Scum was, how many people were going by this pseudonym and during what times, etc. On #1, I tried to leave the matter ambiguous throughout the article - the main point is that whether or not the band was together on paper during these years, they were only sporadically active until around 2001. On #2, it seems like there is some controversy between Mike Dewey and Steve Broy's claims to the Dr. Heathen Scum pseudonym and role. My changes weren't attempting to comment on that, so if anyone has any (preferably verifiable) additions or corrections to make, by all means do so. Colinclarksmith (talk) 05:31, 12 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I found a few more sources and flushed out the bass player history in the band's biography. Hopefully that helps reduce the controversy and is to everyone's liking. Colinclarksmith (talk) 15:23, 12 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Real names/ stage names

Does anyone have information about the stage names (if any), used by Rick Lomas, and Jeff Dahl? Also, does anyone know the real names of Sickie J, El Rapo, Zippy, and Jack Shit?Mk5384 (talk) 15:20, 24 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

All good questions. I haven't found any of those in my research. Let's just make sure that we can verify any stage or real names we add, as the rumor mill seems to run overtime on this subject. Colinclarksmith (talk) 16:52, 24 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Also, any details on the death of Ed Danky?Mk5384 (talk) 02:41, 26 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I know that I've read about it at some point but am blanking on the circumstances. I don't know that it's hugely relevant to the article since Danky was only briefly a member and never performed on an album. Colinclarksmith (talk) 03:33, 26 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved to Mentors (band) per discussion Ronhjones ^(Talk) 01:59, 31 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Mentors → Mentors — Relisted. Vegaswikian (talk) 03:57, 1 December 2010 (UTC) One of those bands without the "The". Here's proof: Get Up and Die, Live at the Whiskey, Live in Frisco, You Axed for It!, Up the Dose, Sex Drugs and Rock 'n' Roll, Rock Bible (The Wretched World of "the" Mentors was used to give a sense of rhythm to the headline - it's not even the name of the album - and is the only anomaly I could find besides the posthumous Ducefixion), To the Max and Over the Top. Currently, "Mentors" redirects to "Mentorship" which, I suppose, is defensible (although I think people are more inclined to look up "Mentor" than "Mentors"). So I guess we could just move The Mentors to Mentors (band), although I think this is unnecessarily cumbersome. Wikkitywack (talk) 02:33, 21 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

~~Or to Mentors (band).~~ To most people "mentors" is plural of "mentor" and not a routine pop music band. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 07:26, 21 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support move to Mentors (band). Powers ^T 14:33, 21 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose move to Mentors (band). The album covers do not tell the whole story - for example, the band themselves use the URL www.thementors.us, and repeatedly refer to themselves as The Mentors throughout the copy of their official web page, official MySpace page, etc. I understand the confusion, but if you look beyond the album titles and read/listen to/watch interviews with the band members, read outside sources, etc., the The pops up more often than not. Best, Colinclarksmith (talk) 20:57, 21 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Also, Ducefixion is not posthumous. The band remains active, despite the death of the former lead singer in 1997. Colinclarksmith (talk) 20:59, 21 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

What I meant was "effectively posthumous." In effect this new version of the band, dubbed "The Mentors", is a completely different beast from the El Duce days (but even the post-Duce album Over the Top uses "Mentors"). As to referring to themselves, etc. etc. - to use an example from the complete opposite end of the musical spectrum, the Eagles are a band officially without the "The", but are oftentimes referred to with it (just as I did in this sentence) for a sense of rhythm in a sentence (or to provide context). I think there's plenty of proof that "Mentors" should be instated as the trademark of this band since it was a distinguishing signifier for 90% of their recorded career. Wikkitywack (talk) 22:35, 21 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I'm not sure if this is the place to debate the legitimacy of the present lineup, but we'll need to look at their self-references throughout their career to determine their branding, including recent sources, which frequently use the The. Ultimately, I simply do not agree that there is "plenty of proof" that the band has used the name Mentors as its "distinguishing signifier for 90% of its career." I again think it's important to differentiate between album covers and proper branding - for example, one might look at the cover of Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band and deduce that the group responsible was simply Beatles. I will do some research and try to compile some compelling evidence, but please, let's not rush to hasty conclusions simply on the basis of album covers, which, again, is all that you seem to be basing this move on. I've been working hard on this godforsaken article to get it up to snuff and ask that you not rush into any misguided moves, as people seem especially wont to do on this unsavory subject, for whatever reason. Best, Colinclarksmith (talk) 23:23, 21 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The ultimate "self-reference", I should think, is the album cover. (As far as I know, the group was very much in control of their own album covers and consistently referred to themselves as "Mentors".) I must have amended my above paragraph just before you posted because I meant to say "90% of their recorded career" - which, of course, covers the most important phase (the El Duce years - that's 8 out of 10 albums. I think it's safe to say he was their leading light (dark?). Btw, since they have 10 albums, it's literally 90% of their recorded output where they're referred to as "Mentors"). T-shirts can be useful in determining a band's intent (do you have access to any?), but concert posters are left up to the whims of the designer who is usually outside of the band. (From what I've seen of the posters, it's about fifty-fifty, but I've only seen a handful on eBay & elsewhere...) As it is, this type of additional secondary source might be useful if we were trying to settle a close debate over "The", but there is overwhelming primary (album cover) evidence that this is not necessary.

Okay, as to Sgt. Pepper's (& Magical Mystery Tour - their only albums branded just "Beatles" on the cover) - these are perfect examples of stylistic choice (a term often misused in these forums). The "proper branding" The Beatles is on the spine of each album. So, my "proof" is not without some thought behind it (and we're not rushing anything - that's the reason I went here instead of putting it under uncontroversial moves or moving it myself). PS - I'm not sure what you mean by "unsavory subject" - are you referring to this sort of conversation or the band? Cheers, Wikkitywack (talk) 02:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Look, I'm giving up the ghost here - I'm a really busy guy right now and I simply don't have time for this foolishness. If you're going to use the tired "this lineup is an illegitimate lineup" argument against the fact that the word "The" is all over their official bio, official URL, etc., watch some YouTube interviews with El Duce and see what impression you're left with regarding what the band is called. You'll enjoy the process. PS: The "unsavory subject" I referred to earlier was the band, for their nasty lyrics and public image and so forth. Best, Colinclarksmith (talk) 21:37, 22 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, let's get this straight: I'm not arguing for the "illegitimacy" of the lineup since two-thirds of the current band are original members. That would be foolish. The point is, their official moniker/trademark was "Mentors" for almost 30 years. Secondly, to use my Eagles example again, watch videos like "The Eagles: California Nights Interviews" (with Don Henley) and many other Eagles interviews on YouTube. Guess what? Even Don Henley refers to his band as "The Eagles". This doesn't take away from the fact that the band is officially called "Eagles". It just makes it easier to say in a sentence. The "the" is often added for a sense of rhythm and/or context (especially in the case of Eagles). Thirdly, as to the example of "Offspring" on the cover/spine of The Offspring's Smash (which you apparently erased in a fit of pique) - this is clearly an exception to the rule. It's the only instance in their catalog. Wikkitywack (talk) 05:22, 29 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

PS - Thanks to your perseverance, you've created a fine article on this controversial group. Cheers, Wikkitywack (talk) 05:22, 29 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Mentors is the plural of mentor, which is the primary usage, use Mentors (band) instead. 76.66.194.212 (talk) 05:43, 23 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Move to Mentors (band). JDDJS (talk) 23:16, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Former Mentors Member

Hello all.I was told by a friend about an update on this article about a former member (bassist) for the mentors. The update was deleted shortly after it was posted.I am the former member.I joined and played with the band as their bassist in and around Los Angeles from July 1984 through early 1985. I replaced Ed Danky at that time.My name is Wayne Daddio. I was dubbed 'Ripper' by Eldon .On the inner sleeve of the 'You Axed For It' album,I am the bassist pictured with the Vox phantom bass.(I am not on the recording).I did quite a few gigs with them during that time along with a brief stint with Eldon away from his drums as the lead singer, while Rob Beigel took over drums.That didn't last very long.Then it was back to the three of us.All I have is a few pictures documenting these facts from back then.I'm hoping to be added back to the list of former members...Thanks for listening.Truvox (talk) 21:12, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Truvox - I am the one who deleted your last addition, and I did so many because the edit was improperly formatted and introduced formatting issues into the former members section. The mid-80s era of the Mentors is hazy, and I would like the article to be as accurate as possible, and would thus like to try and include your name. Do you have any articles, interviews, liner notes or other minor press blurbs that verify your involvement? Wikipedia articles must be verifiable, but, when this is impossible it is also nice when they are simply correct. So any further info that you could supply is appreciated. Cheers, Colinclarksmith (talk) 21:35, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Colin, All I have from back then is a trio of pictures of Eldon,Sickie and myself performing a show at a club called 'The music Machine' in L.A. Back in 1984. I was in touch by Email with Steve Broy a few years back in Which I forwarded copies of the photos by email which he put on the then Mentors website. He knew and remembered me from discussions with Eldon and Sickie. He had them on the site with the history listed.This was shortly after Eldon passed away.I had gotten in touch with him at that time after I had heard about Eldons passing from a friend back in L.A. I knew Eldon and Sickie very well back then and worked with Eldon at the Ivar Theater back in Hollywood. That's where I met Eldon. I was playing in a few local bands there,and He told me they were firing Ed Danky and he asked if I would play with them.I did quite a few gigs with them at the Cathay de Grande,the music machine, the Longerie club and all of the local clubs. I was also on 2 radio interviws with them. Anyone who knows Eric (Sickie)or Steve Broy would only have to mention my name to verify all of this.It was a very small circle of people back then.In the album inset collage of photos on the 'You Axed For It' album,I am the bass player in the photos with the Vox phantom bass. On the front cover of that album,the figure on the right was a friend of Eldons at the time named 'Red Dog' who wasn't in the band,but they needed someone to take the photo because they had no bass player at that time. I would be happy to email you these photos if you would like and if that helps. Just let me know where to email them to. Please let me know...Regards, Wayne Daddio Truvox (talk) 23:07, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough, I re-added the info. Cheers, Colinclarksmith (talk) 15:35, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Colin, Thanks so much for your time and trouble...I truly appreciate it...If you would like to see the photos let me know where to email them as I would be more than happy to get them to you ..Thanks again..Regards, Wayne DaddioTruvox (talk) 22:56, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Wayne Daddio did play bass with the Mentors when Steve Broy was in school. Everything above was and is fact. Steve Broy was still a member of the Mentors and never quit. The Official members of the Mentors from 1976 - 1990 were Eldon (El Duce) Hoke, Steve (Dr Heathen Scum) Broy, & Eric (Sickie Wifebeater) Carlson. All other Guitar Players, bass players & Drummers were just filling in. Not to take away any of their importance. Also Ed Danky did play guitar for the Mentors and a female bass player was added in the middle of the tour as Sickie and Broy were home in hollywood scratching their heads wondering what El Duce was doing. Also Rick Lomas aka (Insect On Acid) had to fill in for El Duce as he 1. Passed out on the floor, 2 Didn't make the gig, or 3 Sickie and Heathen ditched him. But did not make him a official member. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maddogmentors (talk • contribs) 02:18, 26 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If anyone still watches this page...

First of all, does anyone have confirmation, and preferably a source for this new album. I find it unlikely, though not impossible, that Casablanca Records would distribute a release from the likes of The Mentors. Also, some newer Mentors performaces on You Tube show musicians that are certainly not the ones listed in this article. They could just be fill-ins, but any information and sources would be great. Joefromrandb (talk) 09:39, 3 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Cazablanca not Casablanca — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maddogmentors (talk • contribs) 05:01, 25 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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External links modified (November 2020)

Dear Wikipedians,

I have removed the external link on churchofelduce.com, since this reference is not valid any longer. Indeed the domain name has been bought by a Indonesian company to sell online gambling, on 25th June 2019, according to whoxy.com.

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Comedy rock/metal

Is it fair to say many of the mentor's songs are at least partially comedic and satirical? May warrant it being included as a genre.Harry-Oscar 1812 (talk) 16:55, 27 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]