Talk:The Masked Singer (American TV series) season 3

Redirect status

WP:TOOSOON applies here- there is WAY too little information to warrant removing the current redirect on here. It should probably stay this way until more information is announced such as panelists/host, more contestants, etc. Just having this page include a lead about the premiere date and one contestant listed is barely enough to have this be a separate page at this current time. This also means to stop your WP:DE, @Sentai01:, and listen to your warnings and read others' edit summaries constantly telling you that this is not enough. Magitroopa (talk) 06:24, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

Proposed Merge

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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I believe we should merge The Masked Singer (American season 3) with Draft:The Masked Singer (American season 3). It’s only one month away and we have some information about the upcoming season Rider0101 (talk) 19:47 January 3, 2020 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Semi-protected edit request on 7 February 2020

Fancy is sung by Reba McEntire not Bobby Gentry 172.221.98.204 (talk) 01:19, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

Bobby Gentry is the original artist; Reba's version is a cover. The show's chevrons credited Gentry's version. --Masem (t) 02:08, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

Organization of elimination table

I've recently restored an edit alphabetizing this season's competitors by group. Given this is how they are organized on the show, and we are following them grou-by-group over a period of weeks, it is a far superior system of organization for the table, and was an edit I'd considered making myself. I see no reason to lump them into one big alphabetical list; it doesn't reflects how the show is operating this season. ----Dr.Margi ✉ 20:25, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

Doesn't really matter, because in the end, they're all going to be listed in the order they were eliminated. So I say we keep it alphabetical like it always has. - Jasonbres (talk) 21:51, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

It needs to be functional in the meantime, and alphabetical isn't. This is far more organized and reflects the show's organization. ----Dr.Margi ✉ 23:46, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

Status of Sing-Along Special

I'm wondering how we might include the sing-along episode in the article. Per the press release, it only includes season 3 performances. We could include it in a separate table as in here (see "Specials"), or include it in the same table like this here (see episode 22 "American Dream"), or exclude it as in here (no listing of 40th season retrospective episode). Given the fact that it only includes season 3 performances, I believe we should consider option 1 or 2. Let's pick! Heartfox (talk) 21:43, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Rob Gronkowski's apperance

Hello again, everyone! I just wanted to post here to clarify something. At the time Rob Gronkowski made an appearance on the show, he was officially retired from the NFL. It is true that he has since returned to the NFL, but that doesn't change the fact that at the time he appeared on the show, he was indeed appearing as a then-retired NFL player. His current status in the NFL does not change the fact that at the time he performed and was unmasked, he was a retired NFL player. Therefore, any attempt by any editor to insert content that implied he was an active NFL player at the time of his performance is inaccurate, unsourced, unfounded, and a violation of Wikipedia policies as I understand them. Unless there is consensus to remove the term "former" from the description of him on this page, which wouldn't make sense, IMHO, then we need to retain the wording that specifies that he was retired at the time he performed and was unmasked. Does anyone else have any comments on this? Thanks. --Jgstokes (talk) 01:09, 23 April 2020 (UTC

He should be documented as "retired NFL player" as he was chevron'ed on the show, and then we can have a footnote to note the unretirement since. --Masem (t) 01:21, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for weighing in here. I would not necessarily be opposed to your footnote suggestion, but still feel that his current status is not relevant to the content of this page. He was retired at the time he performed, and anyone curious about his current NFL status can find out more about it from his individual Wikipedia article. The more relevant information for readers of this page is that he was retired at the time he appeared on and was eliminated from the show. Just my opinion on your suggestion, FWIW. --Jgstokes (talk) 01:26, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

I know his current status (after his reveal on this show) should not be relevant but I can tell you we will have a parade of editors that will be wanted to change it without reading this talk page if we do change it back to "retired" because ... that's just the way IP/novice editors tend to do. The footnote will help prevent that and as a footnote, does not take away from the core content here. --Masem (t) 01:29, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

I'd love to be able to assume that the addition of such a note would be a good-faith solution that will put an end to the problem, but the edit summaries on this page make it pretty clear that such an approach would not nearly be satisfactory enough. It's been my experience during almost 14 years of editing Wikipedia that there are anonymous editors who will steadfastly refuse to diaogue about such issues, and will continue to advance their own ideas in violation of any talk page consensus. That is a similar situation here. The anonymous editors involved in this particular matter have been repeatedly invited to discuss this here first, and have failed to do so. At some point, in dealing with such matters, the kid-gloves have to come off, and a firmer stance needs to be taken, which needs to include disciplinary measures when repeat offenses come into play. I haven't seen anything on this matter that would instill confidence that a footnote would be enough in this case. In such cases, compromise rarely (if ever) works. I'd love to be now. proven wrong in this case, but from what I can see about this matter in the edit summaries, the time for soft-line approaches may have long passed away. Again, though, if the consensus decision agrees that a footnote on the table is the way to go, I won't object. I just don't see any scenario in which a softline solution would work at this point based on how far things have already devolved. I hope this additional comment puts my previously-offered thoughts into more complete context --Jgstokes (talk) 01:57, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

I'm fully aware we will have IP's coming through thinking we need to update to the "present" which is not right. Someone added an invisicomment for the editing, and I added a footnote that should hopefully be clear that we're not ignoring his out-of-retirement, but that we want the table to be as the show aired, not after the fact. That should hopefully stick. --Masem (t) 04:09, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Possible inaccuracies in the "Ratings" table

There is a discrepancy in the information in this article. When I recently reverted an edit that noted that 17 episodes had aired, that in turn was reverted by Magitroopa due to a claim that the Season 3 finale would constitute the eighteenth episode of the season. According to that revert, the sing-along episode is included in the episode count. If that is true, why is that episode not in the "Ratings" section? In my opinion, any episode included in the episode count should have its' ratings included on the relevant table. To do otherwise could create confusion for those reading this page. Thoughts? --Jgstokes (talk) 04:53, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

It is perfectly fine to include in the episode count. This is the same scenario regarding "Super Sneak Peek" in season 2. The difference is that it was a sneak peek episode aired before the season itself officially began, so it could be added as episode #0. The problem here is that this special aired in the middle of the season, so adding it as episode #0 would not make sense, as then the table jumps from April 15, 2020 to February 2, 2020. The specials can also be viewed here. They are fine being added to the episode count for seasons 2 and 3, as there is not/will not be a separate new article for The Masked Singer specials just to have these in its own episode count and have just information about these two episodes. It hasn't been a problem until you reverted the episode count, it's perfectly fine/allowed. Magitroopa (talk) 05:01, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

I apologize if broaching the subject here was not appropriate. Although I have edited here on Wikipedia in various capacities since 2006 or so, I don't claim to know everything about every type of Wikipedia article. Based on the fact that I am somewhat of a newcomer to articles about TV competition series, I apologize for any misstep or for any implication that I was not assuming good faith on the matter. It appears I still have a lot to learn about articles like this. I'll try to spend more time assuming good faith in such matters and in educating myself about the relevant practices and policies and less time doing something stupid that could be misinterpreted going forward. Thanks.--Jgstokes (talk) 05:07, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

I'm sure there could possibly be a way that it can be included in the ratings table that I just don't know about, so if anyone else has anything to add about that, that's greatly appreciated. Just wanted to quickly note that it's not like the number is being added to the count without it being mentioned in the article whatsoever- the episode is mentioned right below the table with some sources included. Magitroopa (talk) 05:10, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

If a way could be found to note that somehow, I'd appreciate it. In my case, as someone who was just reading this page, I personally found the discrepancy confusing. On the one hand, I'm easily confused these days, which is no one's fault but my own. But on the other hand, if I found it confusing, that may be the case for other readers. Of course, I would not presume to speak for any other readers myself, but if there's a better way to handle it, I think I could get on board with any solution as agreed upon by consensus. I'm sorry I didn't raise the issue here first before reverting your edit. I certainly meant no disrespect or slight, and I appreciate your efforts to keep this page accurate. --Jgstokes (talk) 05:17, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

@Jgstokes and Magitroopa: I've attempted to address your concerns by adding the sing along to the ratings table by changing the episode number to "Special" in the far left column. This is the best I could do with the tech specifications and so the competition graph might have to have its episode numbers changed as well to reflect this. If this is an unsatisfactory solution, hopefully we can come up with something else. Heartfox (talk) 16:21, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Regarding "Stay"

Regarding the song "Stay" in week 12... the artist/song credits are taken from the show itself, in this case, this image. As the note next to it clearly states, Artist(s) should be reflected on what is shown in the show. Changes to this without discussion on talk page may be reverted.

Please discuss here about changing it, do not disruptively edit or edit war to put Zedd back in, this is what the song is credited by in the show itself. Thank you. Magitroopa (talk) 23:16, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

@DJ Hellbringer: You can discuss here. Magitroopa (talk) 23:37, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Full protection?!

Wow, I have never seen that banner at the top of a page before. This seems like overkill but I guess is necessary. This article should have been semi-protected a few days ago IMO... I don't know what infinite undos are supposed to accomplish. It's kind of sad it had to come to this. I guess I'll have to request to edit on here when DVR ratings are released Thursday. Heartfox (talk) 18:57, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protection was requested. It was declined both times. Disappointing how some IPs will edit-war just to get the article the way they want it to be, without actually discussing it whatsoever. Magitroopa (talk) 19:01, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Yea, I just saw that. I don't know why stating what the show says is considered a "personal stylistic preference". This has been a pattern for over a week now in multiple parts of the article from multiple IPs vandalizing (switching up winners names, etc.) and ignoring (two!) notes based on consensus. There is more than enough evidence IMO. Perhaps the request should have included other examples? idk...

Maybe only the song should be included and not the artists? American Idol and The Voice, for example, only list the song not the artist in their tables. Heartfox (talk) 19:17, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Additionally, both the IP and user were directed to discuss here, even myself pinging the user in the discussion above this. Instead I get two talk pages responses on my own talk page (one, two). I didn't read them fully when I got rid of those talk page messages, but the second message barely makes any sense ("could please add in Zedd to turtle’s song “Stay” by Alessia Cara to make it “Stay” by Alessia Cara and Zedd for week 12, April 29 for the Masked Singer Season 3 Wikipedia page, so it makes more sense" - 'so it makes more sense' isn't a valid reason...) and the first message states, "If turtle's battle of the sixes song is "Stay" by Zedd & Alessia Cara on his masked singer fandom page..." - that comment is likely referring to this page, and a fan-run Wiki/FANDOM page absolutely does not automatically dictate what is listed here.

And just an FYI... that was made prior to seeing your latest comment. Regarding what AI and Voice do on their articles, maybe that could be done?... but I've barely thought about it as of right now. Magitroopa (talk) 19:22, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

The problem, Magitroopa, is you were also engaged in the extended edit war, with no sign of stopping. The two of you (the user and IPs all eing the same person) left the admin no choice but to fully protect. Frankly, you're damed lucky he didn't block you both. ----Dr.Margi ✉ 20:06, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 27 May 2020

In week 12 of the Masked Singer Season 13, Turtle's Song choice of Stay by Alessia Cara and Zedd only features Alessia Cara's name I was wondering if Zedd's name could be added into the artist/song credits so that it would make more sense to people who are on the "The Masked Singer (American Season 3)" Wikipedia page, the next time they decide to look it up. Meaning it would go from "Stay" by Alessia Cara. To "Stay" by Alessia Cara and Zedd in the song for Turtle in week 12 of The Masked Singer (American Season 3). DJ Hellbringer (talk) 22:05, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Why is there a need to change it? All songs listed for the seasons 1, 2, and 3 articles all go by the credits shown on the show itself, which in this case, is without Zedd listed (see here). So "Stay" by Alessia Cara is indeed correct. View my previous start of the discussion here. Magitroopa (talk) 22:10, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

You also didn't read the instructions listed in the notice on the article... "you may submit an edit request to ask an administrator to make an edit if it is uncontroversial or supported by consensus" - As the discussion above was already started and this edit has been reverted multiple times, obviously this is not an uncontroversial edit. Magitroopa (talk) 22:13, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

You also previously told me, "If turtle's battle of the sixes song is "Stay" by Zedd & Alessia Cara on his masked singer fandom page..." - a fan-run Wiki page does not dictate what is listed on Wikipedia in any way whatsoever. Either way, a fan Wiki is WP:NOTRS for anything at all. Magitroopa (talk) 22:14, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

This has to stop. You two are still going at it, and talking across each other rather than to each other. Magitroopa, you are increasingly demonstrating WP:OWN behavior on this article; that will do nothing but keep this petty edit war going once the article is unlocked and get you blocked. Find a happy medium by discussing cordially and reaching some sort of consensus. Your "my way or the highway" approach is getting you nowhere, as is your throwing of links and policies rather than a simple explanation of what you favor the edit you do at an editor (and his IPs) with a handful of edits among them. ----Dr.Margi ✉ 23:37, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

I made an effort to discuss this issue on the talk page, while the user and IPs decided to continue making it the way they wanted and ignoring notes listed, similar to how IPs have repeatedly changed Gronkowski from being retired to just being an NFL player, despite what the notes around it say.

If this is going to continue on and on, then yes, I definitely agree to just listing song titles here like Heartfox mentioned earlier, doing the same on the season 1 and season 2 articles. That would definitely help in avoiding this same problem in future seasons- similar artist issues have happened before regarding the original version and who FOX/Masked Singer credits as the artist, as in season 2, "Hallelujah" is credit to Jeff Buckley, not Leonard Cohen. However, if it is decided to keep artists listed, one of the ways should be done (as credits on the show or by original artist[s]), not a complete mix-up with some following one way and others following another way.

I'm perfectly fine with artists being changed, but it should be with a valid reason, not just something like 'Zedd deserves to be listed too' or 'I like ____ better than ____ so they should be listed instead' (For example, I don't think there's a reason to change something from "by NSYNC" to "by Justin Timberlake, JC Chasez, Chris Kirkpatrick, Joey Fatone, and Lance Bass" just so the separate artists can be listed & credited instead of the band as a whole). Magitroopa (talk) 00:37, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit protected}} template. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:59, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 28 May 2020

I was thinking if it's okay to add filming dates. Martinc1994 (talk) 01:13, 28 May 2020 (UTC) Martinc1994 (talk) 01:13, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Just replied on your talk page, but just putting it here for others to see as well... the season articles for The Masked Singer use Template:Infobox reality talent competition, which does not contain the film_start and film_end parameters, while Template:Infobox television season does (but that one isn't used on these articles). Either way, the dates would need a source. Magitroopa (talk) 01:22, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: this would need to be proposed at Template talk:Infobox reality talent competition if there is a desire to add these fields to the infobox — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 10:02, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 30 May 2020

Please change "Stay" by Alessia Cara to "Stay" by Alessia Cara and Zedd by June 3. DJ Hellbringer (talk) 15:38, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

As stated in the above discussions, you need to actually discuss this and establish a consensus. Continuously edit warring to get it the way you want is not how to accomplish this. Please actually discuss this, and stop using edit requests when you've already been told that it is for something that is, "uncontroversial or supported by consensus"- which again, this clearly is not as of yet. Magitroopa (talk) 16:18, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

 Not done, again: as before, please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit protected}} template. Repeated requests for this edit and repeated talking over each other will achieve nothing. ----Dr.Margi ✉ 19:04, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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Protected edit request 1 April 2021

The Season 3 finale is noted as the seventeenth episode on the elimination table, presumably counting 'Road to the Finals' as Episode 16. The reason I wish to edit this is for coherence between articles. e.g. Road to the Finals episodes are not counted in Season 1, 2 or 4. In 1 & 2, it is just called the final episode, and on 4 is is the eleventh episode. I just want some coherence, so could I please make it either 'the sixteenth episode' or 'the final episode'.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Icoll52 (talk • contribs) 10:24, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Updated to 'Performances on the final episode' as it was already on the seasons one and two articles- also updated to that on the season four article as well. There was no reason at all to edit war over this- and yes, while being a recap episode, the "Road to the Finals" episodes throughout the seasons do still count as an episode, which is why the progress tables are the way they are (ex: season 1 article table lists episode 8 and 10 for the last two, season 2 article table lists episode 11 and 13, season 3 article table lists episode 15 and 17, etc.) Magitroopa (talk) 10:33, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, sorry for all I was doing, I don't do this often and I didn't know I was causing trouble : )

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