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Upon further examination, I think we should increase what we are considering "recurring" to mean at least 3 appearances. Right now, we are saying any co-star appearing more than once (so 2+) is recurring, but if we look to other series and the TV project, a rule of thumb is generally 4+ as being recurring. I think the 4 is too much given the nature of this series and how the characters appear, but I think we have to expand recurring to mean more than 2, because frankly that's still really just "guest" level. Pinging specificallly Adamstom.97 and TheVampire who both dealt with this recently. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 03:15, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Usually we wouldn't consider 2 or 3 episodes recurring because in a long-running series it is common to have actors do guest stints for a few episodes and not have a role that actually recurs throughout the season or series. But here I don't think that is the case, as all of the co-stars that appear in more than one episode qualify as starring in the ongoing storyline in my opinion, while the one-episode co-stars are quite clearly in a different category. That is helped by Disney announcing all of the current recurring co-stars at the start of production except for Waititi. So my position is I think we should keep the listing as it is because there are only 8 episodes, and because the current listing seems to me to line-up pretty well with the storytelling. - adamstom97 (talk) 03:28, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I understand the point about the single co-stars being in their own category and Lucasfilm announcing the "stars" ahead of time that turned out to be "co-stars", but Pershing and Moff Gideon still only made 2 appearances that feel more like guest spots in the season arc, while the others that made 3 or more are definitely more "recurring" throughout the season. Moff Gideon is definitely recurring for the series but within the season, I'd still lean to putting him outside the recurring section. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 04:43, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Favre1fan93. Within a single season, we should only list actors appearing in at least 3 episodes as recurring. However, in the recurring characters list on the list of characters page we could list actors appearing in at least 3 episodes across the series as recurring (that means that Esposito is guest in season 1, but if he appears in one more episode, he is recurring across the series). 3 episodes is usually the standard for payTV seasons (8, 10 or 12 episodes), while 4+ is for longer broadcast seasons (18, 20, 22, 24+).--TheVampire (talk) 12:58, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There isn't really any standard for this, 4+ tends to work for longer series so that is why we use it, we don't do it because it should be 4+. The current listing (based on two appearances for recurring) still looks correct to me, as Pershing and Moff Gideon play a role in the larger narrative of the series rather than any of the episodic side stories. It just seems wrong to include them with the single episode guest stars when they are serving completely different roles in the show, especially when Disney indicated that same distinction before the show's release. - adamstom97 (talk) 23:58, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
But to my point, Pershing, though in 2 episodes, is more like the single episode guest stars, and Moff Gideon will definitely be a series recurring character, but at his 2 credits in the season, I find it hard to group him with the other recurring characters who, in my eyes had clear season recurring arcs, whereas Gideon just came in at the end (and that was really just Chapter 8 with the very end of Chapter 7). - Favre1fan93 (talk) 00:25, 14 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I definitely understand your reasoning, I just find it difficult to say that they are on the same level as the one episode guest stars. - adamstom97 (talk) 00:57, 14 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
And I understand where you're coming from too. Maybe we wait until season 2 finishes and look at who co-stars in that season to get a better picture for how we handle them at the season articles? - Favre1fan93 (talk) 01:06, 14 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, so after getting through all of season 2, I definitely feel criteria should be 3 episodes makes recurring. I still feel that way for the Pershing and Gideon in season 1, and in season 2, Peli, Frog Lady, Koska, Bo Katan, and Pershing again are just guest roles, when you compare them to everyone else with 3+ appearances. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 03:02, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I had the same view on this at the beginning, but the fact that most of these actors appear a few episodes apart and are quite crucial to the story can make them recurring (e.g. Peli, Bo Katan and Pershing reappearing at different times in the series and not in just one-two episodes). The criteria is good for now.--TheVampire (talk) 23:05, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That shouldn't matter if they are back to back, or spread out. If it's still only 2 appearances, I still can't feel that's recurring, especially when compared to the other actors who make 3 or more appearances in the seasons. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 01:27, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
At the end of season 2, my thinking is: do we need to have a recurring column? That's what we usually do, as an easy why to decide who is notable to be listed, but this isn't a usual case and we are listing all of them anyway. Why not just have a list of all co-stars and we can split them over two columns like we have at Daredevil (season 1)? We can re-assess later if it turns out that doesn't make sense, but I think this is a logical step to take based on what we have at the moment and the fact that there are barely any actors that count as "recurring" at the moment following our normal thinking. - adamstom97 (talk) 04:29, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I just realised that this would not cover the main series page. I think the listing that we have there (co-stars that made multiple appearances in a season plus characters from previous media) is a good representation of each season, but we may need to adjust the wording. Thoughts on that as well as my season article suggestion? - adamstom97 (talk) 04:48, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I think there's still some value in knowing which characters appeared more frequently than others, keeping a "recurring" and "other" column. Because these are more or less the "normal" recurring and guest columns on many other TV series. And to me, just examining each season and what happens, 3 or more episodes seems like a better definition to being recurring than 2. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:04, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I can see that argument for the first season, but I definitely don't think that makes sense for the second season. Having one column with just four of the co-stars and then another with all the others does not seem like a logical distinction, especially when Bo-Katan, Koska, and Pershing should definitely be considered recurring as they return throughout the season and have significant roles in the overall storyline as opposed to Peli and Frog Lady who just have guest roles over two episodes. And again, we usually have a separate list of recurring characters because we don't want to have the full list and need to determine who is notable, but that is not the case here because we are just listing all of them. In my opinion, having one column with characters appearing in 3+ episodes and another column with all the others is going to be a bad case of our usual standards getting in the way of what makes sense for these specific articles. - adamstom97 (talk) 01:52, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
To me it makes sense as it is now. All the recurring characters are indeed recurring and since the series is very limited in the number of episodes, appearing in two of them means appearing in 1/4 of the season, which is like 3 eps in a 12 ep season or ab. 5 eps in a 20+ ep season. So, looking at the structure of the series, actors appearing in two episodes should be regarded as recurring. The only one which feels like a guest is the Frog Lady, because she doesn't really speak or have a particularly relevant role in the season, but since she's credited as a co-star we can't argue with that.--TheVampire (talk) 17:16, 23 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Some Dude From North Carolina: I have reverted your nomination of this article for GA as you have only made one minor edit to this article, and did not discuss the nomination with the main contributors first. I know I still have some reasonably major work that I would like to get done on the article first before going for GA, so I would ask that we please hold off on the nomination for now. - adamstom97 (talk) 02:44, 5 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Even though anyone can nominate articles for GA, I concur with Adam. Off the top of my head, I know the cast section needs sourcing for the other co-stars and to translate that to the "Casting" section. Reception probably needs to be expanded, and a general copy edit is probably needed too. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:04, 5 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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