Talk:The Left-Hander (opera)

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disambiguation

There is no need for the composer's name in the title where there is no other WP article with this name. See WP:DISAMBIGUATION. Dohn joe (talk) 22:26, 10 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 11 December 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved, per analysis below. Wbm1058 (talk) 22:39, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The Left-Hander → The Left-Hander (opera) – Disambiguation was removed. Please restore either (opera) or the composer's name (Shchedrin). The Left-Hander or Levsha (Cyrillic «Левша») exists in four forms The Left-Hander (story), Left-Hander (1964 film), The Left-Hander (1986 film), and The Left-Hander (opera). This isn't the only topic in Russia, let alone in the West. left-hander (disambiguation), Russian name Levsha and Lefty cover multiple meanings. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:22, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Rename The Left-Hander (opera) as this is the opera article; This title should redirect to the disambiguation page -- 70.51.44.60 (talk) 05:30, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It depends. In English, "The Left-Hander" is not the same as "Levsha" or "Lefty". So it matters what a work is known by in English. If this opera is known in English primarily as "The Left-Hander", then it does not need to be disambiguated against other works known in English primarily as "Levsha" or "Lefty". Redirects and hatnotes will take care of any alternate names. We can't simply change the name of a work to suit our WP titling preferences. So the question is: what are the primary English-language titles of these works? Right now, it's confusing, as several of these titles have been unstable or recently created. Evidence from as many sources as possible of the English-language names would be helpful. Dohn joe (talk) 15:11, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Depends on what? So now you no longer stand behind the not one but two undiscussed moves you yourself made removing (opera) then (Shchedrin)? Why did you do it twice if you weren't willing to stand behind it at a move discussion? In ictu oculi (talk) 19:25, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

As far as "the question is: what are the primary English-language titles of these works?" well you'd know if you'd looked in Google Books. I have expanded English sources as best they are available to these articles, but fundamentally these are four works which are all notable in Russian, and all have the same title in Russian - because the other 3 are all settings of the story Levsha by Leskov. You could have the good grace to Support revert of your own removal of (opera) here. In ictu oculi (talk) 19:30, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Support. "The left-hander" could refer to any notable left-handed person in English, especially a baseball player, and capitalization isn't enough to distinguish from this sense. 209.211.131.181 (talk) 16:27, 11 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This is about subjects with capital "L" and "H", though. Dohn joe (talk) 16:34, 14 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

So, to bring myself up to speed here:

At 21:56, 9 December 2015 In ictu oculi moved page Levsha to The Left-Hander (Shchedrin opera), then converted Levsha (Russian: «Левша» ("Lefty" or the "Left-Hander")) to a disambiguation page
At 16:22, 10 December 2015 Dohn joe moved page The Left-Hander (Shchedrin opera) to The Left-Hander (no need to disambiguate)
At 20:57, 10 December 2015 In ictu oculi moved page The Left-Hander to The Left-Hander (Shchedrin) (not primary - undo removal of composer name)
At 22:25, 10 December 2015 Dohn joe moved page The Left-Hander (Shchedrin) to The Left-Hander over redirect (revert bold move - base name redirects here, so no need for rename)
I see that regardless of whether the work is better known by its English title Left-Hander or its Russian title Levsha, there is indeed a need to disambiguate
I see no claims that this is the WP:primary topic, in either English or Russian
(Shchedrin opera) is arguably over-disambiguation, as either (Shchedrin) or (opera) is sufficient for parenthetical disambiguation
A preference has been expressed to use (opera). Fine by me.
As to "The Left-Hander" vs. just "Left-Hander", I see other "The"s on the dab page, and no assertion of primary topic, so this "The" is just an {{R from incomplete disambiguation}} here. – Wbm1058 (talk) 22:22, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.