This article is within the scope of WikiProject Bible, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Bible on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BibleWikipedia:WikiProject BibleTemplate:WikiProject BibleBible articles
This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Western Asia, which collaborates on articles related to Western Asia. To participate, you can edit this article or visit the project page for more details.Western AsiaWikipedia:WikiProject Western AsiaTemplate:WikiProject Western AsiaWestern Asia articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Religion, a project to improve Wikipedia's articles on Religion-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.ReligionWikipedia:WikiProject ReligionTemplate:WikiProject ReligionReligion articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Israel, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Israel on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IsraelWikipedia:WikiProject IsraelTemplate:WikiProject IsraelIsrael-related articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the subject of History on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Historyhistory articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Judaism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Judaism-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.JudaismWikipedia:WikiProject JudaismTemplate:WikiProject JudaismJudaism articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Christianity, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Christianity on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChristianityWikipedia:WikiProject ChristianityTemplate:WikiProject ChristianityChristianity articles
Historicity of the Bible is within the scope of WikiProject Catholicism, an attempt to better organize and improve the quality of information in articles related to the Catholic Church. For more information, visit the project page.CatholicismWikipedia:WikiProject CatholicismTemplate:WikiProject CatholicismCatholicism articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Islam, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Islam-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IslamWikipedia:WikiProject IslamTemplate:WikiProject IslamIslam-related articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Religious texts, a project which is currently considered to be defunct.Religious textsWikipedia:WikiProject Religious textsTemplate:WikiProject Religious textsReligious texts articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Theology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Theology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.TheologyWikipedia:WikiProject TheologyTemplate:WikiProject TheologyTheology articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Greece, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Greece on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GreeceWikipedia:WikiProject GreeceTemplate:WikiProject GreeceGreek articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ancient Near East, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Ancient Near East related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Ancient Near EastWikipedia:WikiProject Ancient Near EastTemplate:WikiProject Ancient Near EastAncient Near East articles
@Pbritti: I thought the general understanding is that we are not allowed to closely paraphrase our sources. Do you have a problem with that? Your requirement that "quite conservative" and "mainstream" should be found verbatim in the WP:RS is thus absurd, according to WP:PAGs. tgeorgescu (talk) 21:32, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For someone who is very vocal about their understanding of the rules, you seem to have neglected to review WP:V, WP:NOR, and WP:BLP. Additionally, starting a noticeboard discussion immediately invites questions of forum-shopping. ~ Pbritti (talk) 21:54, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is sufficient evidence in your degree of experience and failure to follow appropriate procedure to suggest there may be an issue. Regardless, follow BLP. ~ Pbritti (talk) 22:01, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There's nothing in the source about "mainstream" but it does characterize Dever as one of the more conservative historians of ancient Israel. Does that help? Schazjmd(talk)22:07, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And it also characterizes archaeologists more conservative than Dever as not being mainstream, i.e. doing apologetics instead of science. tgeorgescu (talk) 22:09, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The appropriate phrasing in this case wouldn't be "quite conservative but mainstream". You can leave it at "more conservative". If you want to contrast him with archaeologists who are even more conservative, you use the content of the cited article to note the characteristics of these hyper-conservatives. ~ Pbritti (talk) 22:16, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Again, I'm not defending a particular wording, but the WP:RS makes the following points:
No set of words present mean "mainstream". "Quite conservative" departs from the source (and isn't standard in encyclopedic English). ~ Pbritti (talk) 23:02, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Tgeorgescu: I think it would be in place to note how Dever defines himself in the paper which you brought to this Wikipedia article:
Somewhat later, Finkelstein charged that I had gone to Gezer, Bible in one hand and trowel in the other, to “prove the Bible.” He ignored the fact that for nearly twenty years I had been challenging the older-style “biblical archaeology” in a series of publications.7 I am a very secular humanist, not a theist, and I have no interest whatsoever in “saving” either Solomon or the Bible.
Dever nowhere describes himself as a "conservative" in his paper on Solomon. On the contrary, he says he does not have any interest in defending the historicity of biblical narratives. Thus, I find very objectionable that he should be described as a "conservative", especially without clarifying what we mean by "conservative" in this context. Potatín5 (talk) 22:49, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not opposed to rephrasing those terms, but readers of archaeological papers know that Dever leans conservative. He is not a fundamentalist or inerrantist, but inside mainstream archaeology he occupies the maximalist flank. That's of course relative, since there are full-blown maximalists who are way more conservative than him. tgeorgescu (talk) 02:07, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
.svg){kind=small}
