Talk:The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay

The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay was a Language and literature good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
July 24, 2024	Good article nominee	Not listed
September 9, 2024	Good article nominee	Not listed

Current status: Former good article nominee

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Untitled

Some rumors have been spread casting Adam Brody (The O.C.) as Samuel Clayman and Jason Shwartzman (Rushmore) as Josef Kavalier. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.178.240.192 (talk • contribs)

If you can find a reference for the rumors, feel free to put them in. --Chabuk ^{[ T • C ]} 20:13, 10 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed movie page merge

I believe that the page on the K&C film is in violation of WP:NOT in that "individual expected future events" are to be included on Wikipedia "if the event is notable and almost certain to take place". Since the film adaptation of K&C has been in various stages of pre-production since 2002 (and, as of April 2007, has stalled), I feel that the information on the film should be merged into this article. (Having a separate article for the unmade film is, to me, like having separate pages addressing the various unsuccessful attempts to make movies of out, say, The Catcher in the Rye or A Confederacy of Dunces.) Hobbesy3 02:51, 11 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree completely. María (críticame) 15:12, 11 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. Merge – although the material could stand some rewriting and tightening up. --ShelfSkewed Talk 01:51, 12 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Great! I've merged the film article here, and tried to condense the text a little. Hobbesy3 06:39, 15 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Theme Section Misgivings

I propose the Theme section be deleted. It's just all original research and speculation. The fact one book resembles another theme wise doesn't belong in Wiki. Lots42 21:23, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that some of it is speculative and/or irrelevant to an encyclopedic article, but there's also some fairly straightforward elucidation of the text that I think could be supported by reliable outside sources. The section needs to be cleaned up, for sure, but I don't think it should be eliminated altogether. --ShelfSkewed Talk 22:00, 12 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Film now in production?

See here http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0366165 Macphysto (talk) 17:37, 19 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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GA Review

Unsuccessful. 750 h+ 15:01, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: 2804:7F4:8081:44E2:DED:F98C:4E15:54E6 (talk · contribs) 22:28, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: 750h+ (talk · contribs) 15:00, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fail. There is unsupported text, like a part in the section Inspiration and a whole paragraph in Cultural references. Some sources also seem of questionable quality, including "The Amazing Website of Kavalier & Clay", "Cinematical.com", and "fact.org"; januarymagazine.com doesn't seem very reliable either. Source formatting needs to be consistent. The Characters section is fully unsourced. Prose wise, there is too many single/two sentence paragraphs. Could possibly be a GA, interesting read, just not quite there yet. 750 h+ 15:01, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been archived, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:GAN/I#R4, and leave the {{GA nominee}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: 2804:7F4:8081:5FF3:4DA2:A9D3:E35:C123 (talk · contribs) 20:15, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: TompaDompa (talk · contribs) 17:36, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I will review this. TompaDompa (talk) 17:36, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is a WP:QUICKFAIL based on criteria 1 (It is a long way from meeting any one of the six good article criteria), 2 (It contains copyright violations), 3 (It has, or needs, cleanup banners that are unquestionably still valid. These include {{cleanup}}, {{POV}}, {{unreferenced}} or large numbers of {{citation needed}}, {{clarify}}, or similar tags (See also {{QF}})), and 5 (It has issues noted in a previous GA review that still have not been adequately addressed, as determined by a reviewer who has not previously reviewed the article). I have added a number of maintenance templates to the article itself. A non-exhaustive sample of issues follows.

General comments

There are a couple of book-length sources that are cited without providing the specific page(s). This makes verification unreasonably cumbersome.

Lead

Lengthy, Kavalier & Clay was published to "nearly unanimous praise" and became a New York Times Best Seller. – rather a non sequitur. Why note that it is lengthy here, specifically, when the rest of the sentence has nothing to do with the length?
two short stories published by Chabon that consist of material apparently written for the novel but not included – "apparently"?
Part of the second paragraph and the entirety of the third consists of material not covered in the body of the article.

Plot

they find their creative niches: one entrepreneurial, the other artistic – any particular reason not to say outright which is which here?
[...] passage for his younger brother Thomas on the ship The Ark of Miriam. On the eve of the attack on Pearl Harbor, however, Thomas's ship is sunk by a German U-boat. – the piped link to Struma disaster does not seem remotely appropriate here. Going by our articles, the MV Struma was a ship heading for Mandatory Palestine that was sunk by a Soviet submarine in 1942, while The Ark of Miriam was a ship heading for the United States that was sunk by a German U-boat in 1941.

Inspiration

Many events in the novel are based on the lives of actual comic-book creators, including Jack Kirby (to whom the book is dedicated in the afterword), Bob Kane, Stan Lee, Jerry Siegel, Joe Shuster, Joe Simon, Will Eisner and Jim Steranko. – I haven't been able to access the source, but the quoted passage only mentions Eisner?

Cultural references

The scope of this section is unclear. It mixes references by and to the book. Generally speaking, these belong in different sections, if they belong in the article at all.
This is a reference to the real-life comic book series Captain America Comics, which showed the protagonist punching Hitler on the cover its first issue – this is media WP:ANALYSIS/WP:INTERPRETATION. Citing the WP:Primary source, i.e. the work itself, is not sufficient here—it violates our policy against WP:Original research.
fact.org does not strike me as a WP:Reliable source; the "about" page says We are a book discussion group in Austin, TX that has been discussing SF and fantasy novels since since Spring 1994.. This was also noted in the previous GA review.

Reception

This section relies far too heavily on verbatim quotes. There are quite a few of them, and one or two are also rather lengthy. Over-reliance on verbatim quotes is a writing quality issue, and when it is this pronounced it also becomes a copyright issue. This was recently brought up in the general case at WT:GAN# 1a and 3a in Reception sections with isolated reviewers; I am a relatively moderate voice in that discussion when it comes to the organization of "Reception" sections (the main topic of that discussion), but when it comes to overuse of verbatim quotes this is a pretty clear example of falling on the wrong side of what's acceptable.

Adaptations

This section seems very out of date.
(Rudin was involved with the novel so early on that his name appears in the acknowledgements to its first edition.) – entire sentences enclosed in parentheses is rarely a good idea, and I don't think this is an exception.
Chabon told the publication, "a lot of things about the book [...] the period of the war." – again we have a lengthy verbatim quote that need not be.
In January 2005, Chabon posted on his website that "about a month ago [...] Then it went away". – ditto.
In a 2012 interview, Benedict Cumberbatch expressed interest in starring in a possible film adaptation of the book. – so what? It is not uncommon for actors to be interested in playing particular roles should the opportunity present itself, without that meaning anything about such a production being on the horizon.

Summary

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

Is it well written?
A. The prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct:
See comments above.

B. It complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation:
See comments above.
Is it verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check?
A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline:

B. Reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose):
See comments above.

C. It contains no original research:
See comments above.

D. It contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism:
See comments above.
Is it broad in its coverage?
A. It addresses the main aspects of the topic:
Not evaluated due to WP:QUICKFAIL.

B. It stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style):
Not evaluated due to WP:QUICKFAIL.
Is it neutral?
It represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each:
Not evaluated due to WP:QUICKFAIL.
Is it stable?
It does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute:
Is it illustrated, if possible, by images?
A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content:
The only image is the book cover, which is fair use.

B. Images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
Overall:
Pass or Fail:

TompaDompa (talk) 20:02, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.