Talk:Terraced house/Archive 1

Archive 1

US usage

Once again, a Wikipedia article gives short shrift to American usage and presents the British as if it were the canonical term. (Can we have separate en-US and en-GB Wikipedias?)

The article says:

Terrace housing in American usage generally continued to be called rowhouses in the Eastern U.S., but west of the Mississippi, "townhouse" is preferred.

(Aside: this sentence is obviously written by an American, at least; a Brit would say "the east of the USA". Probably the only such part of the article.) In any event, I don't believe this to be correct. I believe the term "rowhouse" is current only in those communities where it is historically significant, such as Baltimore. Even there, in my (admittedly hazy) recollection, "rowhouse" referred exclusively to older, urban housing stock; recent or suburban construction would be referred to as a "townhouse" or "townhome". The rowhouse in Baltimore was functionally equivalent to the Boston triple-decker: an inexpensive, lower-density multifamily dwelling of a sort which isn't built any more because building codes do not permit. 18.26.0.18 03:42, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I have similar impressions. In particular, they are almost exclusively called "townhouses" in Atlanta, which is not west of the Mississippi. --Delirium 21:24, Apr 5, 2005 (UTC)

I live in New York, and I have *never* heard them called "rowhouses" until I found this article. We call them "townhouses." --User:Jenmoa 03:03, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

...getting better; but, (aside from the fact that referring to maryland/baltimore as part of the southern united states is both dubious and loaded - every bit as much as referring to maryland/baltimore as part of the northeast. it is always best to refer to the region as the mid atlantic (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maryland#Cultural_Identity). southerners typically consider maryland the north. northerners typically consider maryland the south. marylanders themselves are conflicted about their own identity, etc...), the term rowhome refers very specifically to terraced housing narrower than 16 feet (providing housing for the previously working class citizenry), and the term is only used inside the baltimore city limits. post war terraced housing is always refered to as townhouses. in neighborhoods where 16 feet or wider is the norm, the term rowhome is not used. nor is the term ever used outside the city limits (excluding 19th century working class communities where the architectural trends were identical to those within the city). unsure of the general usage in the southern united states, but in washington d.c., closer to the south than baltimore, the term rowhome has never been used (in d.c., sixteen feet or wider is the norm... perhaps explaining the different usage).

example: the charles village homes pictured for the article are generally not considered rowhomes. although they are a fine example of american terraced housing.

Praise

looked at this article about 6 months ago -it is now much improved. :] Leonig Mig 23:37, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

---

In my opinion, it’s not desirable to perpetually ask for separate Wikipedias... then every country would need it’s own, and I don’t believe that’s the purpose of an encyclopedia which is arranged by languages (and for my understanding american english is not yet a separate language). But well, I’m German, so what do I know? :-) My advice is you should work together to form an article that serves everybody and not complain about what’s wrong or missing.

And as I recall from my time in New York, rowhouses there are also called "townhouses", especially if they are not made of brown stone. 84.183.77.204 14:20, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

Philly

• I was born and raised in Philadelphia where I lived in a rowhome. My entire neighborhood was later demolished and partially replaced with townhouses.--Tomtom9041 15:29, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

MOVED

This article has been moved to create a more worldwide view, it was established that it is called a townhome or town house in Canada, the USA and Australia amongst others, terraced housing on the other hand is a UK term therefore 3 countries to 1. There is at least 200 redirects to this page though so it could take a while to get her done but I'll start. TotallyTempo 06:07, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

In Australia, whilst the term "townhouse" (one word, not two) is commonly used to refer to modern houses built in rows with common walls, the term "terrace house" refers exclusively to Victorian or Edwardian houses. Michael from Queensland, Australia Therefore we are now in a postion of 2 countries to 2!! The Republic of Ireland has not yet been included in this article so it would be interesting to obtain some input on behalf of this treasured repository of terraced houses.

I do apologize for the spelling mistake,I am aware of Australia's proper spelling, we also call them townhouses across the nation in Canada, (I moved from the west coast to central Canada and the usage didn't change) but townhouse already has an article talking about some mansions. However I had never heard of terraced housing, and this would seem to reflect consensus among Amercian users also. TotallyTempo 19:42, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Point taken, TotallyTempo. So, having come in and redistributed other people's work, how about contributing some material about Canadian Row or terrace housing? Both France and Britain have extensive areas of attached housing from the 18th century onwards, and with Canada inheriting both cultures no doubt some excellent architectural examples exist in your nation, so some text and photos would be much appreciated. (Michael, Queensland, Australia).

There is now a double redirect for "terrace house". This is unnacceptable. Was there a vote on this decision ?? --Biatch 05:27, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

I just clicked the article and saw no double redirect, whoever fixed it, thanks. I do not have a scanner or digital camera so I cannot take photos of townhouses around here even though there are TONS including the one I live in , sorry. TotallyTempo 06:16, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

I'll send you my old one if you're interested ;) can't get enough of these things :) There are tons round me too, but I think if there are a lots, then the key is to find and feature only the really notable ones. Ones that represent something different or unique. This was hard for me, but I had to cut down the list somehow otherwise I'd be putting to many up. --Biatch 07:32, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

That's very nice of you, unfortunatley none here are notable, in fact this area is probably the most generic houses ever, just a giant box. TotallyTempo 20:30, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Terraces in Queensland ?

Hi Biatch, Michael here from Queensland. Thanks for putting me onto Cook's Terrace. Saw them from West End side of the River and couldn't believe what I was seeing! Not sure how to send you a msg (Wiki newbie!) so my email address is ggardnerau@yahoo.com.au if you would like to email me with your address. For the last 4 years I have had a pretty crappy site "Australian Terraced Houses" at http://odin.prohosting.com/terraces/ that's in urgent need of replacing - haven't done anything to it for ages and it's been defaced by the free hosting service with all sorts of ads and junk. Going to relocate and completely re-do the site with a nice clean paid host, hopefully before Christmas. The opposite of you I am stuck in Bris and can't get any further than Sydney and would love to have some of your material on the new site, if that's ok, and of course link externally from Wikipedia. It will be the only site in Australia as far as I know.

If you can get out of Melb. for the day, Geelong has a couple of nice examples but Queenscliff on the Bellarine Peninsula has a few short rows in the back streets, the place looks for all the world like an English Seaside town dropped from the sky onto the Victorian Coast!!

Grew up in UK and lived for years in terraced houses in Cardiff, Wales, which is probably the best preserved Victorian city in Britain. Came to Australia in the 70s and was stunned to see all the terraces in Sydney, hooked ever since.

Hope to hear from you

PS in Bris there are supposed to be a couple of good examples in Dutton Park near the Gabba, can't find them. Any suggestions?

In that case if we are only putting notable ones up none around here qualify anyways, my building is a giant box.

Thanks for the tip Michael. I have been to Queenscliff, but have only seen the mansions, not the terraces, come to think of it, I can think of some terraces in Geelong though. Luckily I escaped from Queensland. I have seen a few scattered terraces in the Dutton Park and even Annerly areas, but I don't know which streets. If you want to leave a message on my talk page, just click on the link on my signature. You may be interested to have a look at some of the suburb pages I've been maintaining, like South Melbourne, Victoria. I have been taking photos of some of the best examples and uploading them with information I can find on them. With regards to use of the photos, you are completely free to do so. I have uploaded them into the public domain, so I don't own the rights to them anymore anyway. Information should be free ;) --Biatch 22:46, 29 October 2006 (UTC) (Talk)

Merger with Townhouse

I was wondering why the articles "Townhouse" and "Townhome" are seperate. At least put a link on the pages, or redirect "Row house" here, because this looks much more like a house that's in a row. 64.40.52.63 00:18, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

In answer to your question, if you look at the "Moved" section above you will note that a Canadian person called TotallyTempo made a unanimous decision to call this page "Townhome" and proceeded to rearrange all the links. Prior to this the page was called "Terraced Houses" which is the common usage in Britain, Australia and New Zealand. In the United States I believe that "Rowhouse" or "Row House" is common usage in the main areas where such homes are found, such as Baltimore and Philadelphia.

As far as I am concerned "Townhome" is a term I have never heard of! (I am from Britain but now living in Australia). In Australia and to a certain degree in Britain the term "townhouse" refers to modern terraced or row houses usually built as an integrated property development along the same lines as US "condos".

If I had my "druthers" I would like to see 2 pages, with cross links. One of them would be "Terraced Houses" with UK and Australian content and the other "Row Houses" with American content. "Townhouse" in the British sense of a "pied-a-terre" for rich country dwelling aristocrats is really in another category altogether and should not be confused with the use of "townhouse" as the modern low-cost rows of joined-up houses.

The confusion seems to arise from American readers not recognising what is meant by "Terraced Housing" and British/Australian/Irish/New Zealand readers not being familiar with "Row Housing". At the end of the day we all know what the concept involves, but there's no real international word to describe it (like in English we have many names for Cattle but no name for an individual cattle animal) Cow - bull - heifer - steer - but no universal - get the idea??

--MichaelGG 12:38, 18 January 2007 (UTC)User:MichaelGG

I disagree with the idea of splitting the articles. I think we'd be much better served merging all articles that refer to this style of housing, with a section at the top called 'Names' that defines each term and where it is used. Also, you are wrong on the usage in the US. Rowhouse is hardly used here, with townhouse or townhome being the typical designation for this style of housing. I don't see any need for multiple articles defining the exact same thing, even if the term used for it varies on where in the English-speaking world you are standing in. For reference, I am an American living in the desert southwest. --Visual77 03:48, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Visual77 - I take your point that 'rowhouse' does not describe the modern joined-up style of housing. In Australia and the UK, as well as the USA this style is nearly always described as 'townhouse'. However 'rowhouse' certainly is used extensively in the USA to describe the OLD houses in Philadelphia, Baltimore and elsewhere. Extract from Wikipedia Baltimore article:

"The streets of Baltimore are organized in a grid pattern. The streets are lined with tens of thousands of brick faced rowhouses. Many consider the rowhouse the architectural form most closely associated to the city. Some rowhouses are dated as far back as the 1790's."

and from Wikipedia on Philadelphia:

"Most of the city's residential neighborhoods are rowhouse communities, noted for streets lined with attached, single-family homes"

Not trying to be pedantic, just pointing out that this page is about traditional terraced (and row) houses, not the modern complexes of attached homes. --MichaelGG 03:18, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Well frig if I had known that I wouldn'ta moved it in the first place. sorry then. Oops. Guess my type of house isn't on the wikipedia. That's alright though including the american modern townhouses would be too confusing. TotallyTempo 07:02, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps a solution is to have a separate article called "Modern Townhouse", in which patio house could be merged. The concept of the terrace house died out almos universally before World War I. It was later revived as the modern townhouse a major difference being the inclusion of some sort of garage. This article could also include the concept of the postmodern or replica Victorian townhouses. --Biatch (talk) 05:15, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Townhome is a Northeast US/Midwest US/Quebec term. And YES it should be merged. The articles cover practically the same thing, look: Townhouse, Terraced house ," said The Person Who Is Strange. ~Yup. It's all true. Click here for more. My page is outdated, but there are a lot of boxes. 04:25, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Funny warning notice has appeared at top of page

Apparently someone has decided that 'terraced house' is a concept confined to the English speaking world and that the page needs to be improved. There are huge numbers of terraced houses in areas such as the North of France and Belgium, as well as the Netherlands. I have visited those areas and on many occasions the streetscapes there were very reminiscent of similar industrial areas in Britain and even Austraila. I, for one, would love to see examples of this architecture included on the page. So what are terraced houses .. rowhouses... townhouses ... from the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries called in Francophone and Dutch areas?? Any suggestions? --MichaelGG (talk) 10:35, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

British or American English?

Who wrote this article? It seems to alternate between British and American English throughout. I would say it makes more sense to be written in British English, seeing as that is where terrace houses originated, but it also depends on the nationality of the original writer. I don't want to change it, one way or the other, until I've heard someone else's opinion... so what do you reckon? KillerKat (talk) 16:36, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

I would agree with British English, for the same reason you mentioned above, but also for consistency with the related article on terraced houses in Australia and New Zealand. Elekhh (talk) 09:58, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

"Townhouse" or "Townhome" is the most frequently used word in Canada, the United States and Australia. Therefore, we should be using American English, not British English. 72.39.210.23 (talk) 15:47, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Not true. "Terrace" is the most often used term in Australia. It appears in the Collins Australian Dictionary ISBN 0-73322-8078-8, while "townhouse" is not included. Also see Australian government sites such as: [1], [2]. Elekhh (talk) 23:37, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Just a note

I came to this page because I want to write about this kind of housing as it exists in Taiwan, and I wondered what to call it. These are three-to-five story steel-and-concrete structures, whose ugliness has been noted in several novels. I think I'm going to go with "row houses" because that produces the right image, even if you haven't heard the term before, no? "Terraced housing" is a bit strange to me (what if they don't have terraces? Or are the houses themselved terraced?) while "townhouse" sounds much too vague. Anyway, thanks for the assist! Dawud (talk) 05:11, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Currently row house redirects here. As long as the term refers to the same building typology there shouldn't be a separate article. The use of these terms by country should be explained within the article. Elekhh (talk) 09:58, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Edo-Tokyo Rowhouse?

[3] Why is there no information about it in this article? --Arima (talk) 11:20, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Terrace and Row House have different meanings

In English usage terraced house generally refers to those which run parallel to a street (with vehicular access) wheras a row house is usually one which is at right angles to the main thoroughfare and usually with only pedestrian access - so there is a real difference between the two types which is not being observed here. Town house is an uninformative term since it makes no distinction between types of housing (terraced, i.e. connected, sharing party walls on both sides excepting those at the ends of the terrace / semi-detatched, two dwellings sharing one party wall / detatched). I suspect that “town house” is originally (real) estate agent language which is, as usual, intended to make property sound more desireable than it is. In the same way that ‘loft apartment’ sounds better than ‘part of a converted factory’. I suggest the English/British definition is simply more informative and should be adopted (or retained) for that reason.CydoniaArgon (talk) 18:36, 6 December 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by CydoniaArgon (talk • contribs) 18:29, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

terms

I have a problem with the terminology used in this article. It starts with a very British and historical point of view. My perspective is from Philadelphia where we have many rowhouses. A rowhouse is defined by at least three characteristics: it has a flat roof, is narrow, and shares side walls with neighboring houses down the block. Traditionally they were made of brick.

There is confusion regarding the term "townhouse", or townhome, which is not normal here. A townhouse is wider than a rowhouse. Sixteen feet seems to be the border line. Rowhouses do not exceed this width. They normally do not exceed three stories, although there are a number of houses in gentrifying areas there decks and a fourth story are being added.

A wider house is naturally larger and considered more upper class than a rowhouse, which has working class implications. Townhouses are typical of newer and more upscale housing stock. Typically they have more amenities and may be built of other materials than brick, e.g. stone. For this reason marketers like to relabel rowhouses as townhouses to justify higher prices. Whether the term is justified depends on the relative width, size, and luxuriousness of the house.

The "terrace" houses illustrated at the beginning of the article could not be called rowhouses here because of their non-flat roofs. I am not sure what to call them. Rowhouses have no differences at the ends of the rows, except for side windows.PhillyFrog (talk) 23:01, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Although most of Philadelphia's rowhouses were built with flat roofs, quite a lot of rowhouses in Pa have pitched roofs similar to their UK counterparts. For example, Allentown up the road from Philly has whole suburbs of rowhouses and if you look via Google Earth you can find quite a few with peaked roofs (West Chew Street for example). Another interesting point about Allentown in Particular is that it was a coal and steel town and much of the Victorian housing stock looks very similar to the terraced houses built in Cardiff, Wales, UK - especially the "upmarket" three story bay-windowed style where the engineers, managers and more "important" families lived. I lived in Wales and was immediately struck by the similarities. Very many Welsh immigrants arrived in the 19th century and I wouldn't be surprised if they brought their architectural tastes with them. Using a combination of Google Earth and Streetview you can find some villages (For example Bath, Pa) with rowhouse-lined main streets that look as if they were lifted straight out of the South Welsh Valleys - peaked roofs as well --MichaelGG (talk) 04:25, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Town house vs. rowhouse: split?

I'm surprised noone, in all these debates, seems to have consulted McAlester's canonical Field Guide to American Houses for a discussion of the whole "American Usage" thing. There is a clear distinction between row houses and town houses, though the former being a subcategory of the later. The former meets the British usage of "terraced houses", whereas the later related more generally to form-factor and lot size usage - the defining characteristic of a "town house" is that the house is rather linear due to the narrow size of the lot (due to the urban conditions). A townhouse can be free-standing and detached, attached and be unrelated to its neighbors, or have been built as part of a uniform row with its neighbors - in only the later portion is it a rowhouse. A "town house" need not share walls nor be identical, and thus fails the definition as given in the lead. Ergo, I think "townhouse / town house" merits becoming its own article, as many, if not a majority of them, do not meet the definition of a row house; though likewise, any new page should have a section with hatnote direct to this one. Morgan Riley (talk) 04:31, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

With regards to the title...

I think an excellent reason for keeping the title as "terraced house" is as follows: they are the primary type of housing found in most parts of the UK and Ireland. It is hard to go to any town and not find some terraced street. In America, on the other hand, where space wasn't rare, they are much less common. Most towns, even in the crowded northeast, don't have terraced houses. In general, only cities do. But in Britain, most suburbs, most cities, and many rural village are made up chiefly of some form of terraced houses. The concept of the terraced house has much more significance for the British user than for the American user, and hence it should be labeled in the British form...I would ask any American that doubts me to take a trip to England, Scotland, Wales, or Ireland and go to any random town....188.74.96.196 (talk) 20:30, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

As a American (USA) who has taken coursework in Scotland on architectural conservation in the UK, I very willingly and readily concede the point when referring to what in American English is termed "Rowhouses". Yet as I noted in the above post, in A.E., the term "townhouse" means something different--a type of house that is on narrow lots, like that of a rowhouse (the latter is usually considered a subset), yet (except for rowhouses) *isn't* physically connected. Thus as a distinct and not-subsidiary topic, it shouldn't be on the same page/redirect. Thoughts? Morgan Riley (talk) 00:12, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

The problem is that in the UK, the word "townhouse" is now used by estate agents as marketing term for "high-class" terraced houses. It is an americanism, but is used because many people associate the phrase "terraced house" with working class victorian style terraces. It is not in common usage among the general population, however. I also believe that in the Northeast of the US, townhouse can be used to refer to what most people would call a "brownstone". I've seen estate agents using the term for such. Townhouse seems to be a very broad term on the whole. As an American myself from New England, I've never really used the term townhouse. Perhaps that's because the cities I am familiar with lack that type of housing. I was used to "3-family" houses, known often as "tripple-deckers" and brownstones...confusing to say the least.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.74.96.196 (talk) 11:28, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Victorian through terrace

There's some info at uwe.ac.uk, including a photo dating from c. 1890. It'd be useful to have a free period photo, if there are any which are arguably within the public domain. A recently taken photo would should show a recreation of the period environment, rather than the genuine example... maybe a sepia tone photo would help! -- Trevj (talk) 14:35, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Painted Ladies

Why are the painted ladies from San Francisco, which are not terraced houses, given as the lead illustration of terraced houses in this article? While they are row of Victorian houses, they are detached. 78.144.145.119 (talk) 07:59, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

I have no idea why it is there, I am deleting the picture