Talk:TXE

Anybody?

Is there anybody there

Yes, but do you really want to tempt fate in this way? And did you forget the four tildes? Mark126 08:38, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Is there anyone out there that knows about TXE1? Deben Dave 10:29, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Were all reed switches electrically latched, as in a crossbar switch, or were they magnetically latched in some designs as in 1ESS switch? Jim.henderson 00:52, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

They were just like the TXE2 reeds. Just two reed nearly touching and within a coli that when energised made contact. Deben Dave 10:21, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Excellent. So, in either system, what happened when the coil was no longer energized? In the systems I handled, the call remained connected. Jim.henderson 04:20, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

The contacts were open circuit. They were only made when the power was on. Mind you there were a lot of problems early on with the TXE2 reeds see the article. What system did you work on? I seem to remember you name from some where. Deben Dave 17:34, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

BTW we should have some more info coming on the TXE1 and maybe even photograph. Deben Dave 17:59, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Very good. As my Talk page indicates, I'm an old Switchman, approximately the kind of beast that on your side of the puddle is called "Technical Officer". As our respective Contribution pages indicate, we both have contributed articles about our local neighbourhoods, which in my case is a small island off the coast of New Jersey. We also contributed to articles about switching history in our respective countries. Mine include panel switch, crossbar switch, 1XB switch, 5XB switch, 1ESS switch, 5ESS switch, DMS-100, Reed relay, wire spring relay, New York Telephone, telephone, and telephony. Mine are from a Bell System perspective, that being my intellectual home but outside perspectives are at least as interesting.

I have to write up a description of how coincident currents selected and closed a particular reed crosspoint, kept it closed after power ceased to run in the coils, and opened it when another crosspoint in the same input or output was activated. First must decide whether it belongs in Reed relay or 1ESS switch, or maybe the former has grown to the point that an article on reed array switches should be broken out.

Oh, and what are these MF registers? DTMF or R2 or both or something else? Cheerio!

Jim.henderson 21:11, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Jim you will have to forgive me I am a very new Wiki contributor. Mark126 by very good friend had already pointed out that I should have looked at your home page. Mark and I decided to put a TXE page on Wiki, as there was not one. We worked together for about 7 years Mark doing TXE2 support and me doing TXE4 support for the Eastern part of the UK. We have remained good friends ever since and meet regularly to talk about the old times. I also worked previously on the TXE1, TXE2 and TXE6.

So you worked on crossbar as well something I never did although I spent a small amount of time on our little Strowger systems. Did crossbar come before your reed systems and was there much of it in the USA?

MF Registers were as you say DTMF and allowed proper push button dialling for the first time in the UK. Previously BT introduced a push button dialling phone but all it did was turn the push buttons into pulses and created huge post dialling delay

What is the small island called? Thanks for putting the links in to the TXE page. Deben Dave 12:09, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Got to write quickly and take the underground to a neighbouring island for a computer repair job. My own little island is Manhattan; a joke that works better with Americans. 1XB switch and 5XB switch together made about 60% of US or New York switching in the early 1970s when I started. New York never got much Strowger; had Panel switch instead but I didn't work much on it which is why that article is shorter. Centrex alludes briefly to my experience with Strowger switches. Wikipedia I've been doing since October so I guess that makes me an old timer and I've had fun linking all sorts of things together.

Jim.henderson 15:29, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh that little island the one that was bought for a few beads!!!! Are you still working on the telephone equipment? Looks like BT and AT&T were developing reed switching in parrell in the 60s. PC repair, so has Vista taken off over there? Deben Dave 12:08, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Still a Switchman though there isn't as much work as a quarter century ago. Only DMS-100 and 5ESS switch survive, which have few moving parts hence most of the work has to do with local loop wires and assignment errors. Consumer software such as Vista isn't released the same way as switch software; world wide release will be at the end of this month, hence five hours earlier on your large island than on my small one. I'll buy in March anyway.

Yes, reed switching was started about the same time on both sides of the Atlantic but Bell seem to have put more money into software, hence installed many millions of lines of 1ESS switch in the 1970s, replacing all the selector systems and the majority of the crossbars. I finished my latest additions to that article an hour ago but still haven't written the one about coincident current reeds. Oh, yes, I should also make one about the introduction of international dialing, having done some of the 5XB switch sender link wiring for that.

Maybe we should write an article about exchange labour. Jim.henderson 00:31, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for all that. Regards to software they always say that you should get a friend to try it first so they can find all the bugs. Mark and I have both noticed that you spell the word labour as we do with a u, is that for our benefit? We are still waiting for the additional material on TXE1 to arrive. Deben Dave 19:55, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I try to accommodate interlocutors with a sentence of Spanish or a phrase of French if that's their language or whatever. Switch software is always tried on a trial machine; for 1ESS switch they were in New Jersey and for 5ESS in Ohio or Illinois, those being close to the labs. Windoze gets much testing, still comes out with many bugs, and still has plentiful bugs years later. There's no way to avoid them, and no great need.

I made my first pass in reed relay about how the 1ESS crosspoints remained connected without power. Must revise it for clarity later this week and maybe extend the explanation to higher levels of the hierarchy of the fabric. Unless someone else is qualified for this work, which would be a welcome development. Jim.henderson 04:31, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Ah french well Mark126 is your man for that and we might temp him to join in. (Ça serait de trop, peut-être! Mark126 17:39, 17 January 2007 (UTC)) I have added some more information to TXE1 including photograhs suppled by by old boss. Mind you although he has given me permission to use them I am having terrbile troble with the wiki copyright and hope they dont get taken out. Deben Dave 20:56, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Pleasant pictures, all right. Many pictures in Wikipedia are taken by editors who are poor photographers; these look professional. I noticed your TXE4 punch tape analysis project, and ought to write up the PDP-11 Switching Control Center at 140 West Street, New York, that analyzed 1ESS teleprinter False Cross & Ground, Supervision Failure, and other failure reports in the late 1970s to find stuck or corroded reed crosspoints all around Manhattan. I guess that will be an addition to 1ESS switch rather than a new article about SCC. Must first describe the internal hardware and software that generated the individual call failure reports, before getting into the automated statistical analysis.

Jim.henderson 21:48, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Well the pictures as I said were taken by my old boss who as a second line used to be a photographer on the local paper. His claim to fame was that he took photograhs of Bob Monkhouse an English comedian who lived near the TXE1. He now lives a long way from me. He sent the pictures printed on plain paper and I had to scan them and considering I think they have come out quite well. Some of the photographs he sent contain people who I worked with and it did bring back the memories. PDP11 the old DEC machine we were doing it on a CPM machine do you remember CPM. Don’t know what Mark is going on about something about maybe to good or something. Deben Dave 10:46, 18 January 2007 (UTC) Translation is (I hope!) "That would be too much perhaps".Mark126 11:29, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Maybe before spring I'll describe the Switching Control Center in a new article. This one managed a few dozen 1ESS, some half million lines, maybe a million in half of New York City, and produced ASCII histograms of failed calls that visually identified stuck or open crosspoints. Meanwhile I have described the ferrod, but only briefly aluded to its use in trunks (what you call "junctions") while of course the majority were for lines. Next time comes the line circuit, with no visible relays and only two moving parts. And that means going into the packaging system. And then the scanning software and wetlist for permanent loops, which we call by the less obvious term permanent signal. Even that article ought to be bigger. Plenty of writing to do about operations, before getting to the maintenance software, which was the majority of 1ESS software. Jim.henderson 09:17, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Delightful to see the compass call trace method. 1ESS switch packaging was almost loose enough to allow it, but the software trace method was easy anyway so we didn't have to be as clever. Most exchanges however were 1AESS with all switches packed tightly, hundreds of crosspoints or in most cases more than a thousand inside a steel box as long as a forearm and without individual access unless you detach all the wires from the box and haul it to a workbench. I hope my stylistic edits of last week didn't bother anyone, and see that only one was reverted for being simply wrong. Feel free, of course, to correct my attempts at improving something that you fellows know and I don't. For 1ESS I've started describing the automated test point access. Probably my path will lead next week to the early manual methods of finding stuck or open contacts, followed by the automated and centralised histogram generator method. And other aspects of centralised administration, eventually. Jim.henderson 21:48, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Nicely put about the edits, Jim, although we were somewhat taken aback to see them.Mark126 11:22, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for today's reversion Jim : you got there before we did. Mark126 20:13, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Glad to help. Then I became busy and forgot to answer. Yes, it can be handy to have a friend on watch in a distant time zone. As it happens, my own taste in orthography is duifilik, but alas the reforms of Webster and Dewey neither reformed enough nor were sufficiently widely adopted, so I enforce the spellings actually accepted in particular places. TTFN. Jim.henderson 20:05, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

"Duifilik"?? Even Google can't crack that!Mark126 20:18, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Hah. Forgot about this discussion. Look for DUI DEWEY, to understand the first part of the word, and then think what Greek word the remaining part resembles. Jim.henderson 20:11, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Blimey - this is straining trans-Atlantic knowledge! I find that over there DUI means Driving Under the Influence. Filik gives the same sound as the Greek philic, so you are trying to tell us that your spelling is akin to that of a drunk driver?! I can't say that I have noticed and anyway, where does Dewey come into it? Mark126 21:31, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Hi Dave. My name is Jonathan Kay. I very much like your wiki page on TXE exchanges. I worked on TXE4 maintenance from 1989 until about 1996, some of my best years on BT. Changed several of them over to digital, unfortunately. Rather new to Wiki editing, so I'm nervous about messing your page up. Here are a list of some TXE4's in the Portsmouth area for your table. TXE4RD, Cosham, Fareham, Havant. TXE4A, Waterlooville, Hayling Island, Bognor Regis. Cheers Jon.

Jon glad you like the page it brings nice memories back to us. We had to rack our brains and had lots of help on the information. Thanks for your info I will add it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Deben Dave (talk • contribs) 15:06, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

G4vft (talk) 12:51, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Pictures

I am jealous. Not only are you fellows better writers than me, but you've got pictures. Excellent clear photographs, some in colour, and diagrams. I don't even have diagrams, for my 1ESS switch and similar articles. But hold on, I can still say your gear was more primitive than mine of the same period. I mean, that supervisory relay set is huge. Like, it looks 3x8x20 inches. Did it supervise only one ongoing conversation? 1ESS original trunk packs (incoming or outgoing) and junctor packs (for own exchange connexions only) were about 4x5x8 inches, and held two separate circuits. And then in 1975 the width was halved with smaller relays. Still, I'm jealous of your superior Wiki article. It makes me wonder, will a future chapter describe the relays and circuitry of those relay sets? Jim.henderson 03:11, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Hello Jim thanks for the compliments. It has taken us a long time to track down the photographs. I will leave mark to answer the questions, as he is the TXE2 king.Deben Dave 09:30, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Hello Jim. Thanks from me too for your kind words : they are much appreciated, particularly coming from someone as knowledgeable as yourself in this field. Dave (whose thanks are just above mine) is being modest in not mentioning that the photographic work is all his. You're right about those supervisory relay sets : they were huge and indeed they only supervised one ongoing conversation each. We bow to your superior packing density! Mark126 19:57, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Well done - but there were at least 13 variants of TXE2s from the three manufactures - PTL, GEC and STC. Later designs were for larger units. Alan

great article !!!!

Hello

I am passionnated in the electronics telephone switching technologies and there history. This TXE serie of switches seems to be the most interested for me to study, but I need your help for this. Unfortunatly the web is not really very instructive about telephone switching of the analog electronics area, fortunatly you describe here the sort of technologies I prefer. Please do you know how could I get some more technical information about these switches such as detailled circuits boards picturse and schematics, wiring diagrams... for the plaisure of my eyes and brain !! Maybe you could help me. Thank you for your comprehension. Best regards. Fabien.

p_fabien@hotmail.com

Page Development

Pleasant to see progress continued during my August Wikibreak. The "Introduction" section is a good addition, shrinking a lead which had become too long. I can still make a few suggestions:

1. Lead picture. One image at the top of the article should help readers understand immediately upon encountering the article. The one of Mr Harris handling the wires, for example, shows graphically the level of technology involved. One of the reed pictures can have similar effect. Choose one.
2. Subsections. Some of the system descriptions are so long and detailed, they ought to be broken down into subsections for subsystems.
3. Length. No, don't trim the material but perhaps the biggest system section or two ought to become WP:SIZE articles of their own, with only a summary in the mother article.
4. Double-click image for more information. In my MS Windows Explorer 6, double-clicking on your pictures does nothing different from single-clicking. Do some browsers act differently in this regard?

Anyway, do keep up the good work. Jim.henderson 04:44, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Many thanks for your comments Jim. We do value your informed interest and in particular your thoughts as to how it looks to someone further removed from the creative process than us. I'll talk to Dave about your specific suggestions and we may need to come back to you for more detail on some of them. Mark126 07:03, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi Jim thanks for the comments. You may have noticed that in our acknowledgement section we now have Professor Flood. He was a friend and worked with our hero Tommy Flowers and we were amassed that the professor was still alive and we managed to track him down. We sent him a copy of the article as it stood at that time and he very kindly provided us with lots of information and we are still in the process of incorporating it into the article. It was such a thrill for Mark and I to find him as he must be well into his 80s.. We have asked him subsequent questions and are awaiting his feedback. Thanks again for your feedback. Deben Dave 10:36, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

More for your list and page

Shoreham-By-Sea (4A) Horsham Carfax (RD) Hampden Park (4A) Horley (4A) Eastbourne Neville (4A) Lewes, Newhaven (can't remember variant). All South Downs.

As an apprentice I had the job of running a thing called MASCOT (Monitoring of A-Switch Congestion On Txe). It would be plugged in to a block on the IDF and would print out a report of which A switches were busier than others. It was then my job to move customers from one to another to try and ease the congestion and then run the process again. 217.43.161.68 (talk) 13:02, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Is that on TXE2 or TXE4 the MASCOT thing never heard of it. Thanks for the extra sites. Deben Dave (talk) 18:03, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Hating myself for tagging, for once

Dear editors, I really feel like I have just killed a kitten by putting two cleanup tags on this article. I really do. I read this article, and enjoyed it immensely. It is clearly not a copyvio, and has obviously been written by people with a very enthusiasm and indepth technical expertise -- dare I say, perhaps, even love? -- for telephone exchanges. Regretfully, however:

• I've removed the Acknowledgements section as we don't have them on Wikipedia. I'm so sorry.
• This article really badly needs inline citations in the text, and the references formatting into cite/ref templates and tags. I fear some of this may be original research (whilst no doubt being technically accurate) and so, inline references are required to establish that this is not WP:OR and that the material does indeed come from references that meet WP:RS.
• The page syntax, nesting of sections, etc. needs to be fixed as per WP:MOS; particularly, the placement of images.
• Excessive detail needs to be reined in to being for a general encyclopaedia audience; this is too specialist.

I'm going to have a go at seeing what I can do to help with some of this. --NicholasTurnbull | (talk) 02:47, 25 October 2010 (UTC) Here are links to the various guidelines/policies relevant to the above:

• Wikipedia:Layout

• See the page sections outlined there for a usual article outline.

• Wikipedia:Manual of Style

• Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#Images
• Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#Section_headings

• Wikipedia:Citing sources

• Wikipedia:No original research

I hope this is a start on pointers as to how we can make this article really shine. --NicholasTurnbull | (talk) 03:02, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Copyright and Original Research in Images

Dear editors,

I was drawn here by the AN/I discussion. I read the article and was greatly impressed, though as a general reader from a humanities background I have to admit that I both zoned out at times, and significant elements of content went over my head with the reading level I devoted to the article. But I really did enjoy it.

Copy violation questions relating to images

There may be copyright problems with images.

Some appear fine, such as the pencil drawings, but may in fact be copies of the kind of images I question below.

Images such as File:TXE2 trunking.JPG display internal features indicating they were produced in a systematic manner as part of an engineering project, despite the absence of code numbers or drawing sheet indications. These files display high quality diagram printing techniques, of a past period prior to computerisation and easy access to diagramming and diagram printing by editors. As such I strongly suspect them to have been produced and published as a matter of course by an employee of a large institution or contracting house. As such, these works would have been directly produced as a consequence of employment, and produced as instructed. These copyrights would not vest in the individual who worked to produce the diagram, but the author who holds copyright would be the institution who directed the employee to act as such. The lack of citation indicating the source of the diagrams adds to this. As such, I do not trust the GPL / Public Domain surrender copyright notifications.

Can the author responsible for uploading these images please indicate when, where and how they were produced? Under whose direction? Where and how published? Fifelfoo (talk) 02:36, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Original Research and Images

If the images were composed on the basis of reflected consideration by the author for the purposes of the Wikipedia article, they may represent Original Research. If they are drawn on the basis of a textual or graphical description, then the source they were drawn from should be cited, and the reliability of that source be determined. Fifelfoo (talk) 02:36, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

File:TXE4 MCU MTWS.JPG Nominated for speedy Deletion

An image used in this article, File:TXE4 MCU MTWS.JPG, has been nominated for speedy deletion for the following reason: All Wikipedia files with unknown copyright status What should I do? Don't panic; you should have time to contest the deletion (although please review deletion guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page. If the image is non-free then you may need to provide a fair use rationale If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale, then it cannot be uploaded or used. If the image has already been deleted you may want to try Deletion Review This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 17:24, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Nice

This is such an awesome page. 104.229.143.192 (talk) 22:56, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

January 2019

Although this page is highly detailed and clearly a labour of love, the tone of the writing is in parts far from encyclopedic and much of the information is repeated within the page or insufficiently structured. There also seems to be many explanations within the technical paragraphs of concepts that are explained on their own Wikipedia entries. I will try to improve the structure of the page where appropriate, but will do so in small edits to make the edit history easier to read. Kaitlin500 (talk) 15:47, 24 January 2019 (UTC)