Talk:Sylvester Magee

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Longevity, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the World's oldest people on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.LongevityWikipedia:WikiProject LongevityTemplate:WikiProject LongevityLongevity articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.

Biography

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles

Untitled

130 years old!!! That's why that I put may be a hoax. ~~Awsome EBE123~~(talk | Contribs) 18:46, 15 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it's not a hoax any more, as I've included a reference to prove that both the birth and death dates are correct. Besides, any article that is tagged as a hoax should be considered for deletion, using any of the three deletion processes. Minima c (talk) 14:45, 3 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nothing in Minimac's citation was "proof". They cited a fluff piece in Jet Magazine. The only verifiable date was Magee's death. There are no birth records, no Civil War records verifying service, no independent source that verifies Magee's age. 130 years old would have made Magee one of the oldest people ever to have lived. In order to be included in Wikipedia, there should be proof, not wishful thinking. I've seen many articles deleted for less. Scottca075 (talk) 23:57, 19 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This article smacks of a very poorly written hoax and lacks credible sources. It is wrought with spelling errors(albeit in quotation marks) including 'nothing' spelled as 'nuthin'(sic) and then spelled 'nothing' within the same quote. Articles like this destroy any credibility wikipedia may have and serve no constructive purpose. Please delete 205.250.7.158 (talk) 04:40, 24 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There's a difference between an article about a possible hoax, and an article which is a possible hoax. That Magee made these claims, and that they received significant coverage, is verifiable and supported by reliable sources. The truth of the claims themselves is a different matter, but the claims themselves are notable enough for an article. ✤ Fosse 8 ✤ ^talk 11:10, 17 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

HE actually was age 8 in the 1870 census record likely born in 1861 a slave yes from birth to age 4 in 1865. HE was a realistic 110 when he died not the ridiculous 130 he claimed. He grew up hearing slave stories as a child was never a field hand or felt the whip of adult slavery. 2600:1015:A025:C196:492E:EB8F:34F5:95D5 (talk) 09:57, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Census records through 1940 show that Sylvester Magee was born about 1892 in Covington County, Mississippi.107.133.158.129 (talk) 12:06, 21 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

What record? There are a number of Sylvester Magees in MS in 1940. Seems unlikely that the locals would have allowed him to overstate his age by 51 years, or have accepted a guy living there all his life adding a half century and a lot of locally verifiable history to his resume, but if you've got the smoking gun, bring it forward. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.243.14.6 (talk) 20:09, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Actually a tintype picture of him was taken of him it 1880 as a young man. Likely verifying his 1861 birthdate. He was not 39 years old when the tintype was taken. Likely 19. He was 4 years old when the Civil war ended. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1015:A022:2D41:BF4:37BE:3C0E:47D (talk) 13:14, 5 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The heading "Confirmation" is inappropriate

The text of this paragraph does not establish that his claims were confirmed. It establishes that there is an inconsistency at every point in the documentary record.

In other words, even if his story should happen to be true, there is no documentary confirmation.Ttocserp 08:11, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

This is useless as a source but may give clues to other sources

[1] Also note that it appears that an academic (Max Grivno) may publish something more substantial on him as mentioned in the ELs I added. Doug Weller talk 15:57, 17 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

May 29,1861 birthdate

He actually could of been born a slave. His name is listed in a census of 1870 as age 8. But he was not a Adult but a child at the time of the civil war. He was probably the last living slave when he died in 1971. His age was a much more likely 110 and not 130.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.104.90.225 (talk) 21:08, 21 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi - I've again had to revert your addition of this purported Census birth date. Rather than cram my objection into an edit summary, I thought I'd explain a bit more fully here. First, you need to cite a source, rather than just "the Census." Is the relevant page of the Census available online? Where? And does it have an actual birth date, or are you just extrapolating from his age? Second, and crucially, we need to have a reliable, secondary source - not just a primary source like the Census, as Wikipedia is not a place for original research.

Here's why: The Census document presumably tells us only that someone named Sylvester Magee was 8 years old in 1870. How do we know that it's the same person who is the subject of this article? We would need someone (historian? genealogist maybe?) to have researched the issue, synthesize with other sources, and make the argument. Ideally, that argument would then be published somewhere so that other independent editors can test the claim, like an academic journal perhaps. But at the very least, Wikipedia requires more than just your assertion.

(Note that, elsewhere on this Talk page, one user states that "Census records through 1940 show that Sylvester Magee was born about 1892" and another responds: "There are a number of Sylvester Magees in MS in 1940." So a Census record is far from the final word here.)

Finally, you are certainly correct that a birthdate of 1861 would be "Much more believable than the claim of 130 years old." I think this article makes clear that the supposed 1841 birth date is extremely dubious. But even 1861 would have made him exceptionally old. It's possible, but at least from what you've presented, we're a long way from being able to say it's "likely," or at least any more likely than any other date in that general time period.

Hope this helps. I'd love it if there were some reliable sources out there investigating his actual birth date, and hopefully you can find some! --EightYearBreak (talk) 19:33, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The census of 1870 is the earliest possible record. In North Carolina people of African descent were considered property until 1866. No birth record for slaves were recorded because as property they were considered less than human at that time. It is obvious he was the last slave but only as a baby to age 4. His stories were just stories he heard as a child growing up from black Civil war Veterans. He never served in the Civil war at all unless you want to believe he died 14 years longer than the oldest man who ever lived. I Changed it to May 29, 1861 because that is his birth date. Using US government Census records. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.104.90.225 (talk) 15 October 2020 (UTC)

Maybe I haven't been clear about my concerns with your edits. I absolutely agree that he was not born in 1841, and he did not live to be 130. That's why the birthdate says "claimed"--that's what he said, and why he's notable, but there's no proof that it's true, and it's highly, highly unlikely to be true. But that does not mean we can just pick some other date to put here, unless we have and cite a reliable source saying so. I'm sorry if you view my edits as "interfering with the truth," but if you know it's true, surely you can share (with a link) the source of your information? For what it's worth, I don't have any vested interest in asserting that he was 130 -- what would that even be? I just want to do my best to try to maintain the integrity of Wikipedia and its sourcing policies.

Yes, I agree that enslaved people generally lacked birth records, but that does not make it "obvious he was the last slave." I would guess he was not even that old, as living to "even" 110 is extremely rare. But again, it does not matter what I think; Wikipedia is about what I can show through reliable, secondary sources. Please take another look at the Wikipedia guidelines I linked in my last comment.

That being said, I did try to look into the 1870 Census on FamilySearch.org. I was unable to find any entry for a Sylvester Magee in NC or Mississippi who was born in the early 1860s. Even though such an entry (if it existed) would not by itself be a sufficient reference for the May 29, 1861 birthdate, I figured I'd at least look. So can you please share your source? Maybe if we are looking at the same source, we can reach a compromise position. We could also seek out a third opinion.

For now, I'd just ask that we keep the discussion here instead of continuing to revert the article; there's a rule for that, also. Thanks. --EightYearBreak (talk) 19:40, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Sylvester Magee chair.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 02:07, 21 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]