Talk:Sweep picking

Frank Gambale

I removed the claim that Frank Gambale invented sweep picking, for starters those interested should read this page: http://www.frankgambale.com/pages/faq.html ...

In it Frank himself describes sweep picking as a technique of guitar that has been around "As long as guitar has been around" and then strangely enough claims that no one thought the technique was possible until he "came along". This latter statement not only contradicts his previous one on the same page, but obviously has no credence anyways, as Yngwie J. Malmsteen was recorded in early 80's on albums for both Steeler and Alcatrazz, wherein we can hear sweep picking, as well as Malmsteens solo career very shortly thereafter.

^Ritchie Blackmore used many sweeps,( possibly the first rock player to use them, before Yngwie), listen closely to some of the made in japan album... Highway star solo, child in time solo, strange kind of woman solo, and others, all in 1972 (after all, Blackmore influenced Yngwie)

To be specific, At the same time Frank Gambale was leaving his home to begin study at the Guitar Institute of Technology in 1982, Yngwie Malmsteen was being flown to North America by Mike Varney of Shrapnel Records in order to begin writing and recording for Steeler's self titled release in 1983. Seeing how this was done for the specific reason that Varney had heard demo's of Malmsteen playing in his native Sweden, then it stands to reason that logically Gambale could not of possibly invented a technique a year after someone who had already mastered it put it on a record.

To be fair, neither artist can adequately claim to have invented the technique, and any claims of the popularization is clearly subjective to one's preference for the artist, although one can sight Malmsteens official recordings as being well before Gambale's. In truth, sweep picking, like most techniques, was refined slowly over centuries of fretted instrument playing, making Gambale's original statement the most accurate of any standpoint. However, in light of his contributions, I will put Frank as one of the artists who popularized the technique in the 80's. Nightmare 18:51, 20 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The bit about Frank Gambale being the originator is totally inaccurate and should be removed immediately. There is probably no clear answer to when it started to be used, but just to prove this theory wrong it is very well known that Manouche (Gypsy Jazz) guitarists such as Django Reinhardt have employed this technique since as early as the 1930's. Either someone should remove the history or find a credible source to explain it.Bryan s 06:04, 23 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Frank Gambale still needs to be removed as the originator of the technique. YouTube has a clip of Jerry Reed and Chet Atkins playing a rendition of "Jerry's Breakdown" from 1975 in which Chet Atkins sweeps twice during his solo. Please post any earlier verifiable recordings. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.170.209.201 (talk) 23:16, 17 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There are videos on Django Reindhart where you can clearly see him sweep picking passages Winterdenni (talk) 06:35, 27 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Whew

Whew. I did quite a lot of reworking on this article, after realizing two pages existed for it with this one hyphenating the term and the other did not, leading to two seperate pages about the same thing. Which tends to happen. There was also a very small third page essentially about the same thing that I merged called sweep-tapping. Of all three this easily had the most useful information so I stuck with it and merged the other ones into here. I also re-arranged the information and obviously deleted a lot of unecessary doubling of ideas. I also wrote a lot of this from scratch, which you can see from the history, but I give a salute to whoever wrote the last revision, there was lots of good info there that just needed to be organized.

Here's my problem, and you can see the remnants in the edit page, when i got through writing all this out it somehow formatted everything like a math equation. You know, long gray box? It seperated every paragraph into a one sentence long section that looked terrible. Oddly enough to my suprise, typing in a line break before each paragraph somehow overrides whatever is screwed up. I certainly didn't put code anywhere that would do that, none that I can see. After writing so long I'm going to leave it like it is for now. The only real downside is there's no paragraph indentions, which irks me but whatever. If someone finds out whats wrong and fixes it, tell me what it was!! Thanks!Nightmare 10:57, 11 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

So you're the one who added the unnecessary hyphen all those years ago. At least you didn't give the same treatment to the "alternate-picking" or "economy-picking" articles. I don't usually resort to straight-up insults on WP, but I'll say it—you are a dumbass. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 00:28, 27 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Fingers & multiple strings

"The fingers cannot hold down multiple strings at once nor can they make individual fretting actions, the motion is seen as a rolling of the fingers in the direction of the desired notes across the fretboard, rather than up or down the neck"

This bit is completely wrong. You can play some simpler sweeps like that, but how are you supposed to play expansive ones like that? Example - The common minor shape with the root on the A string requires the second finger fretting the third to jump over to the B string to hit the octave.

More complex progressions, like several sweeps in a row, require the fingers to be layed down shortly before the notes are played as there is not time to lay down all the fingers at once and it is not feasible when flowing in from another hand position.

Cheers --DanielCrouch 16:54, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sweep-tapping

Someone should include the less popular sweep-tapping technique. In this article, it is briefly mentioned, and I'm not even sure that it is the same thing that I am talking about. This technique is performed by sweep-picking up an arpeggio (or whatever, I like to use whole-tone shapes wich are very hard to arpeggiate, so I throw in a sixth or a fourth here and there), then tapping (with the right hand, obviously) on the next desired note, or possibly notes with the additional fingers. This allows for very wide arpeggios (or whatever, as stated before) and allows the player to go from a note to its second octave (15th note of the scale, not quite sure what the real name is) or higher, and back down again in a very short amount of time. The player can also transition very quickly into a tapping lick - and from a tapping lick back into sweep picking - seemlessly. This is a very fun and expansive technique that should not only be included here, but should be added to every guitarist's repetoire. Besides, is there anything that should not be explored when it comes to music? ---Kyle

OK

Pretty good article, a little dense, could use some graphics (animated gif maybe?) and some citations, but other than that it's pretty nice. Tagged it for not citing sources, though. I'll look around for some in a bit. Jongpil Yun 07:18, 31 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What does this sound like?

I think a link to a WAV file that demostrates what this technique sounds like would help those of us who've never played the guitar understand what the article is talking about. 207.154.79.131 10:15, 28 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Good idea. Also some examples of it's use in prominent songs. I'd record myself but I don't have any recording stuff. Anyone feel like giving it a go? 24.16.187.179 06:58, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I might give it a go, I got to learn how to do sweep picking first, but ill use the examples on the page. It may take a while, so anyone feel free to put up a file if you get there first. 124.197.30.4 (talk) 00:38, 15 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Jeff Loomis?

I think Jeff Loomis from Nevermore is one of the best sweep pickers around... why are people deleting him?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.169.210.150 (talk) 03:54, 3 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's list crufting. The list has more than enough examples. It doesn't need to list every guitarist that uses the technique. That is just overkill. It doesn't need anymore names. 156.34.221.33 (talk) 04:04, 3 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

for that matter, why is paul gilbert even on here? he never sweep picks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.193.156.228 (talk) 05:37, 26 May 2008 (UTC) Paul never uses sweep picking?Mwahahaha.Sweeping is one of his favourite playing techniques.[reply]

I agree, Jeff Loomis, Paul Gilbert, and Steve Morse should all be added to the list as they are prominent examples of sweep picking and essential to the development of the techniqe. I also think that a list of examples should be added, such as Morse's "Tumeni Notes", and an explanation of how the examples created variations on the technique. I am not familiar with several of the players on the list so I'll leave it to someone who feels more qualified to create such a list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hackett1f (talk • contribs) 20:54, 16 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Too Technical

This article is much too heavily involved with musical theory and will provide very little meaning to the average reader with no training in musical theory. Look at the first sentence... "The technique is almost exclusively applied for arpeggios, with a common shape being the one- or two-octave stacked triad; or in scalar terms the first (tonic), third (mediant) and fifth (dominant) of a scale, played twice with an additional tonic added to the highest point in the shape. " What meaning could that possibly have for the average reader? The article needs to be cleaned up to have some value to readers outside of the music world. Some guy (talk) 22:37, 7 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Too technical??? Readers outside the musical world will have no interest in such a page. Anyone guitarist who doesn't understand ideas such as tonics, triads, and arpeggios have no business learning about sweep picking. Further, those who do read this will realize they need to up their game in terms of knowledge and this will get them going in the right direction. Guitarist are far too lazy when it comes to understanding theory. Oh, and many European readers will be more familiar with calling scale tones by their traditional titles rather than numerical assignments. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.166.68.227 (talk) 20:46, 16 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds like someone's an arrogant elitist. (74.177.37.46 (talk) 02:00, 26 November 2010 (UTC))[reply]

Split 'List of notables' to new article?

I propose that we split the 'Notable' list from this article to a separate article. For an example see other guitar-related 'Notable' lists like List of Telecaster players, which is a Featured List. The list here is a magnet for repetitive fan-posts, while the focus of the article is the picking technique rather than the players. We can certainly expand the article to include a few notable proponents in context. See related discussion at Talk:Fingerstyle guitar#Let's just delete the list of fingerstyle players, and that list was indeed deleted. Also see comments here and similar discussion on Wikiproject:Guitarists talkpage archives here and here. Any comments are welcome, thanks. Chuckiesdad (talk) 08:07, 22 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Section based too much on user opinion

This section of the article is based far too much on user opinion. Who are you to say that this list has more than enough examples? Is there some official Wikipedia policy that determines how many guitarists can be listed under the "List of notable sweep pickers" section? I think not.--74.192.218.67 (talk) 23:31, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

intermediate technique?

quoted: The ability to move the shape of an arpeggio up and down the fretboard in order to effect, or because of, a change in key lends itself to being the primary choice of guitar players, helping ease the use of what is considered an intermediate technique of guitar performance.

I have two problems with this sentence: The phrase, "the primary choice of guitar players," suggests that most picking is sweep picking. This is not accurate at all. The next phrase is more confusing than inaccurate. If sweep picking is considered an intermediate technique, then why are such advanced players so notable for its use? Do people use the term "sweep picking" for slow, plectrum-picked, non-alternate (or non-outside) picking? --Ringingnote (talk) 21:59, 31 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"Three 'lower' strings"?

"...three-string sweep arpeggio done on the upper three (thinnest) strings, more so than the lower (thicker) strings..."

This is completely backwards. The upper three strings are the thickest, and the lower three are the thinnest. Unless you're playing your guitar upside down, of course.(74.177.37.46 (talk) 02:01, 26 November 2010 (UTC))[reply]

List of known players

This sorely needs getting rid of. The alternate picking article does not have one, so why here? It's pure cruft and nothing else; just an excuse for a bunch of IPs to list their favourite shredders. There are no refs for all these guitarists stating "[Name Here] is known for his sweeping", and I doubt there ever will be. In fact, looking back on the article history, there never has been! Also, readers are unlikely to get much out of such a large list. So [Name Here] can sweep a lot—but where? On an album? On instructional videos? All the time or just occasionally? Once in a blue moon? (e.g. Lane and Gilbert).

If no discussion within a week, I'm zapping the list myself. No mercy. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 04:14, 20 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

No objections from here, for what it's worth. I know nothing about this subject, and only have this article on my watchlist to guard against vandalism. The aforementioned section of the article is often subject to self-promotion. Graham87 11:25, 20 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

And it's done. Seeing as nobody came to its defence, that section should stay gone until the whole article gets an overhaul (refs, history, the works). Mac Dreamstate (talk) 00:24, 27 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I just reverted an attempt to re-create this section, which turned out to be part of a pattern of promotional edits about Davide Lo Surdo, which I have promptly nominated for deletion. Graham87 16:27, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Old history

Some old history that used to be at the title "Sweep picking" can now be found at Talk:Sweep picking/Old history. Graham87 02:04, 25 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

delete this "article"

Citing one magazine how-to-do-it article DOES NOT a "technique" make. It's at best a technical skill but more likely a gimmick. Using it constantly ispractically an anti-technique, greatly limiting the potential for musicality.

Overreach abounds: The technique was first used and developed by jazz guitarists Les Paul, Tal Farlow and Barney Kessel in the 1950s doesn't line up well against Django Reinhardt recordings from the '30s that hold clear examples of sweep picking. Such assertions NEED backing from a credible source or it's mere opinion, and original research at that.

More than half the verbiage is obviously instructional, and so runs directly against WP:NOHOWTO.

Get rid of all such fat and chaff, and you'd have a dictionary entry. As such, this could be gathered up with most of the "guitar techniques" clogging WP and merged into one overarching article.
Weeb Dingle (talk) 05:27, 4 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I can't disagree with most of that, although I do believe it's a perfectly valid guitar technique and not a "gimmick"—there's just not enough refs to demonstrate that. That how-to GIF is an outdated, decade-old piece of crap as well. I'd like to see that thing gone forever. The only reason I still have this article watchlisted is so that I can swiftly revert anyone who adds "notable users" of the technique. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 13:40, 4 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Marty Friedman

Hi, in the linked video at 1:04:30, Marty Friedman seems to indicate he doesn't use sweep picking at all. This suggests maybe he should be removed from the list. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_SHZkqsIDQ 91.180.120.129 (talk) 13:57, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Done – removed Friedman and all other players listed in that sentence anyway; too broad.. too.. sweeping, of a statement. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 18:07, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]